How many valedictorians don't graduate?

Parents Forum
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<p>UAB does require graduation from high school; transcripts showing this are due by July 15th. I know there are some schools (MIT even) that will take students early, after junior year without graduation. We even gave our son the option of graduating early but he didn’t want to leave his STEM magnet school.</p>

<p>emilybee - this sounds like our son. He is an amazing math and science student; English has never been his favorite and has required effort to keep up the straight As he had before this year. He wants to major in biomedical engineering and has already AP tested out of 2 of the 3 required English classes at UAB. If he gets a 4 or 5 on the English lit test, he gets credit for the third.</p>

<p>He can take English in summer school (yes, $550 for summer school classes but AP tests are $87) and be finished at the very end of July. I believe it can be taken on line (just not sure about repeat classes - classes for original credit can definitely be taken on line). He would then graduate in very early August, in plenty of time to get to UAB on time. So, achieving graduation isn’t a problem, it’s just whether UAB will accept late graduation. I can’t remember if I mentioned but he is convinced that he earned a 5 on the English lit AP test - it would be particularly frustrating for him to lose his acceptance/scholarship because of a class for which he’s already earned college credit.</p>

<p>We have discussed deferral with him as well as community college. He is not interested. That may change if UAB rescinds his acceptance; I think he’d rather be in college, even community college, and working a part time job than working several part time jobs. We’re still hoping we can salvage UAB. We aren’t willing to force him to stay out for a year. I can’t even imagine the he!! he would put us and his little sister through if we forced that.</p>

<p>The 10 credits was a lot. He’s done 8 successfully before and one of the 10 was supposed to be completed last summer. He didn’t finish until February so he let that one linger a bit. Things might have been a bit different if he had finished that last summer.</p>

<p>We’re working on a letter for his educational counselor at UAB to see if there’s a work around. We’ll see.</p>

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<p>Our son would have been the first valedictorian to graduate with honors. To graduate with honors, the students have to take a certain number of AP classes in several different fields. The val and sal are always students that attend their home school 1/2 time and the STEM Governor’s school that our son attends 1/2 time because of the extra weighted credits they earn. But, none of the STEM classes are “AP” classes even though they can take the AP tests for some of the classes (our son took both physics C tests). They’ve never had a student fit in enough AP classes in different fields before our son did this year. But even if he were to pass English with a D, he doesn’t meet the requirements - they aren’t allowed to earn any grade below a C. </p>

<p>And, he was kicked out of NHS because he couldn’t be bothered to write down his community service hours and turn them in. He did more than enough hours, just didn’t write them down.</p>

<p>I almost wonder if he didn’t want to do the val speech…</p>

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<p>Why do you think he will do the work to pass in the summer when he is not doing it now? I don’t read this as a kid who is too busy to get his work done… it feels like there is something else going on here. He knows perfectly well that THIS is the class he has to pass to get out of high school, but he is lying to you and not getting the work done (while getting As in his other classes). </p>

<p>I feel like we are missing something… maybe a major power struggle between parents and kids that has been going on for a while, and this is the kid’s way of “winning” on the only terms he can figure out?</p>

<p>Here is another question… can a high school allow an “incomplete” like a college can? If so, can he finish the work in the summer? Depending on how he has acted toward the English teacher, of course – if he has been rude or sloppy in the class, the teacher may not cut him any slack. If he is genuinely interested in getting the work done and TRULY hasn’t gotten it done due to being overloaded, maybe he can make a case for that. Of course, he has to want to do that.</p>

<p>My take is given the power dynamics here and his completely unwillingness to work with you as parents, can the GC step in and talk to him more about this? Or is there even a favorite teacher or someone who can “broker a deal with him” to get him to agree to do the work for the English class?</p>

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<p>“e sounds really burnt out, and really immature…a very combustible combination for…”
ANYTHING. Added to the all or nothing scenario the OP paints for us plus the pre-planned MD/PHD, it’s no wonder that he IS burned out, immaturity or not. I would venture that this is less about taking on more than he could handle and a life lesson than his way of screaming for help that he is NOT ready for college. Not that he can’t do it, but not ready to go.</p>

<p>Rather than get all tied up in knots trying to get him there next year come hell or highwater, I would see what you can do about getting him to understand himself and why he felt he had to take on an impossible task, then deliberately toss the few options he had to make pass this last class by not handing in assignments. A mature kid would have not taken on so many classes, would not have delayed the assignments and would not have lied. He didn’t know how to dial it down, so he sabotaged himself.</p>

<p>If he is under 18 you can indeed insist that he go to therapy. If he’s not ready to get help, it won’t change him overnight, but he will still hear the messages. I strongly suggest a gap year, with some specifics set in place, including counseling. If you insist he go next year, I fear you’re going to have some version of a repeat of this one. </p>

<p>Some kids just take longer to “bake”. I know this from personal experience. Sure, we’d prefer they be ready to achieve great heights at 17 when they show such promise, but a lot of kids are not. Yours sounds like one of them.</p>

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<p>"I almost wonder if he didn’t want to do the val speech… "</p>

<p>No. It’s more than that. He didn’t want the pressure and didn’t know how to step off the treadmill without feeling like he was going to disappoint you and others. So he consciously and subconsciously sabotaged his ability to do it all.</p>

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<p>He sent a message loud and clear…the OP noted that he is failing due to failure to turn in assignments (too many zeroes) and that he did not do the missing assignments even when given the chance to do so.</p>

<p>In other words, he is choosing to fail the English class required to graduate.</p>

<p>He doesn’t want to go to college right now, he doesn’t want to do an MD/PhD program right now…right now, he wants some time off the treadmill and he doesn’t know how else to get off.</p>

<p>My guess is he has been sending the message for a while now, and the parents refuse to read it.</p>

<p>For example one of the ten (ten!) classes is a left over from last summer–which should have been finished by August, but was not finished until February. February?</p>

<p>Why was he on a treadmill of taking so many classes? He obviously didn’t need them to graduate! If he couldn’t handle the workload (and who could?), and he wasn’t passing in a required class, I would have had him (forced him) to drop an elective to concentrate on the class required for graduation. Why was he taking so many classes? Just to say that he was taking more classes than anyone else?</p>

<p>When did he ever have time for fun? Please don’t tell me that taking all of these classes was his “fun” because obviously…it wasn’t.</p>

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<p>What I can’t figure out is why all the adults are running in circles trying to figure out how to ensure this just turned 17yo is at UAB in August, while the student is doing everything he can to prevent it. He’s lying, not turning in assignments, not making an effort to pass the one needed course. If he won’t do this now, why jump through hoops to give him a second chance this summer? How big of a sign does he have to send that he doesn’t want this right now?!?</p>

<p>He’s been under great pressure to stick with the plan and doesn’t know how to say “Enough!! I want a break, I want out, I do not want to do this right now!!” He easily could have made the effort to pass the course. He purposely has made an effort NOT to bring the grade up in English despite the adults arranging multiple second chances. The boy is saying NO in the clearest way he knows how.</p>

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<p>“He has been given many chances to make up old work but wouldn’t meet the deadlines.”</p>

<p>If that is the case, <em>he is not ready for college.</em> Either he lacks the maturity to force himself to do assignments that don’t interest him (a recipe for disaster in college), or he is sabotaging himself because he’s overwhelmed with anxiety about next year (a recipe for disaster in college). Either way, the now-or-never dichotomy presented by the adults is making the situation worse. There are a lot of middle-ground pathways here, I promise.</p>

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<p>This is a bit off in left field, but 17yos are known for very unpredictable moves and illogical thinking. The OP mentioned when her son committed to UAB right at the beginning of May that they questioned his reasons. His girlfriend had chosen UAB for the same major. The OP noted at least they wouldn’t be going broke. He had several other high profile offers however the other competing scholarship was at VCU. Being a Va resident this is considerably closer to home. I’m wondering if he started to have second thoughts about his choice. UAB was not the far and away front runner if it wasn’t settled until decision day (5/1). As noted before maybe his cold feet are about going at all this year and that was the hold up. </p>

<p>Either way, I think the OP may be surprised at the answer if her son were offered a GAP year with college the following year. Sadly, it should have been discussed when the grade was salvageable and UAB more likely to readily grant the year off. As previously noted, it would be worth contacting VCU and asking if they would grant him the year off and accept him next August if his completes the English course this summer.</p>

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<p>We could physically make him show up to a counseling appt but we can’t make him participate. The counselor advised us not to even push him strongly to go, much less require him to go. He gave us an extra business card and told us to give it to our son with the offer for him to go with us or on his own. This is exactly what we did. We spoke positively about our experience with the counselor but told him it was his choice, exactly as the professional told us to do. We suggested some other people that he might want to talk to - a former teacher that he respects and became friends with or his rifle coach - but he refused. It is impossible to make someone talk or to make them heed what you say.</p>

<p>We are not insisting that he go to college - I never said that we were. We do insist that he either go to college or that he get a job or jobs and pay rent. He is not going to live here with no obligations. HE wants to go to college. If nothing else, he wants to get away from us. We impose what he thinks are highly unreasonable obligations on him - he has to check in when he’s driving our car and we need to know where he is. He has to take out the garbage once a week and he’s supposed to clean up his room (not happening but not worth fighting over). He is a typical teenager who thinks he knows best and should be allowed to do what he wants, when he wants. I remember thinking my parents were idiots too. All of this trouble was new this school year. Up until last September, we thought we had gotten off easy with him. He was pleasant to be around, followed the rules and was a wonderful kid to be around. It was a sudden, shocking change to the kid we’ve known for the last 8 months or so.</p>

<p>There does not appear any way to do an “incomplete”. I asked his guidance counselor today if she could think of any path other than summer school to get him his diploma. She couldn’t. She has been meeting with David regularly to talk over the last few months. She wanted to be a resource for him and did not divulge to us anything other than a general feeling she got from her talks. She thinks he took on too much. He also had a new girlfriend starting in August - only his second and the most serious. At one point, his behavior was so erratic that I thought she might be pregnant. We don’t see her much because she lives quite a ways a way and only attends the Governor’s School with him, not his home school.</p>

<p>If we didn’t think he’d do the work in summer school, we wouldn’t pay for it. We do think he can handle it, easily. He won’t have 9 other classes and girlfriend is moving to Georgia the day after her graduation. Is the alternative to never have him graduate? Not an option. If he were incapable of doing the work to graduate, it would be a different story but he is entirely capable of passing English. Certainly we will talk to him about it and make sure this is what he wants to do (no reason to pay for it if he’s not going to do the work) - we may even have him sign a contract saying he’ll pay us back if he doesn’t do the work. Or, we’ll make him pay for it up front and pay him back if he passes with a reasonable grade. Haven’t thought about that a ton as we really thought he would pull this off.</p>

<p>He was given many options to step off the path he chose. His counselor advised him to reconsider this heavy course load before the semester started. I suggested he take regular English (rather than AP) because the colleges he applied to only gave credit for either AP English language or AP English lit. He got a 5 on the AP English language test so there was no reason to take AP English Lit. It turns out that UAB does give separate credit for English Lit but it was a late add on to his college list and he was already taking AP English lit. No one pushed him to take on this load; he made that choice himself. He made the choice to put one of only 2 classes he needed to graduate on the back burner while earning a 125 average in physics - all part of that frontal cortex development (or failure to develop at this age) and the accompany lack of ability to make rational decisions.</p>

<p>His job has been to choose a path. Our job has been to help him along that path when we could.</p>

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<p>IF he REALLY wants to go to college in the fall (though as many have posted, there are many warning signs here that he is not mature enough or in the right frame of mind currently to make this worthwhile), one other option is a GED. One can register and take it at the end of July, I believe. For many places, GED = HS diploma.</p>

<p>I would have serious concerns that he see SOMEONE he trusts to sort out what HE wants so that he won’t continue to sabotage himself.</p>

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<p>We suggested that he drop some classes early on this year but he convinced his counselor and us that he could turn it around. He actually did for a while and had his English grade up to a B in 2nd quarter. He had a mid range C for the first semester so things didn’t even need salvaging then. All he needed to keep a C for the year was a mid range D for 2nd semester - it was not unreasonable to think he could pull off a D when he pulled off a C for first semester. We could have forced him to drop some of the other classes but that wouldn’t have made him do the English work, even if we forced him to drop everything but the 2 required classes. It would have caused him to give up on everything and fail both required classes rather than just the one. </p>

<p>Other than English and government which are required by the school district, he chose all of the classes he took this year. He had reasons for taking them all and enjoyed all of the classes he took other than English. </p>

<p>We still question his reason for choosing UAB but it’s not an unreasonable choice. It has been his first choice since he visited in late January - it was his excitement about the school that caused girlfriend to apply to UAB. Other than MIT, it was the campus visit that he came away from the most excited. UAB was not a last minute decision for him. We believe that his biggest reason for wanting to go there is that girlfriend is going there - he strenuously denies this. UAB is a reasonable choice for his stated goals - they have his desired major, he was accepted into the honors program, they offered a nice scholarship (everything but his meal plan is included), the med school and hospitals are nearby so he can volunteer and they are one of the few schools that offer undergraduate anatomy labs. </p>

<p>No, I would not be surprised at the answer to being offered a gap year because we’ve already asked the question. We had the thought a few months ago that he just wasn’t ready to go to college. He has been offered a gap year more than once. His response was and is entirely negative. We told him we were seriously considering keeping him out of college for a year - his response was that there was nothing we could do about it if he got a full scholarship. He told us he would start walking to Birmingham right after school got out if he had to. We reminded him that he wouldn’t be 18 until March 2014 so we did have the authority to keep him out even with a full scholarship. He has been offered a year at community college. Again, entirely negative. He is completely convincing in his determination to go to college this fall at UAB other than in his actions towards his English class. He even finished a scholarship application from the hospital where he volunteers on Friday - why would he complete a scholarship application if he didn’t think he was going to college this fall? We didn’t even know about it until he gave me the package and asked me to drop it off at the hospital office. </p>

<p>He is adamantly opposed to VCU - there is no reason to contact them. We both saw VCU as his best offer but he hated the school and campus. He said he’d rather work at Subway and not go to college than go to VCU. He may get that wish to work at Subway, if they’ll even hire him.</p>

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<p>While a lot of this is on the student, the adults around him had final say in how many courses he took. The GC could have refused to sign for that many, or for that many AP’s. And suggesting he take fewer isn’t the same as parents putting their foot down and saying, “No, you will not take that many courses. You don’t need to and it’s too much.” As with many things, just because you CAN doesn’t mean you SHOULD. </p>

<p>"I would have serious concerns that he see SOMEONE he trusts to sort out what HE wants so that he won’t continue to sabotage himself. " This. Exactly. If he’s not ready, or willing, or he’s scared or depressed, or overwhelmed or some mix of these, he will not do well next year. He needs help to figure which of these, or some other “what if” it is. I would lean in the direction of someone with actual training in helping people figure this out rather than a coach, but that’s just me.</p>

<p>ETA: Just reading your newest response-so he is VERY young-a full year younger than most HS grads-and he is acting his age with all the negativity and refusals. Because he really only JUST turned 17-you have a lot more control over him and where he goes when</p>

<p>Also, just because he filled out a scholarship on Friday doesn’t mean a part of him is completely not wanting to go to college. He may be book smart but he’s young, immature, and has some kind of serious emotional things to deal with given his status in school right now. You’ve let him call all the shots and it’s gotten him in a pretty deep hole. You’re going to have to insist on a new plan or you’re going to be posting here in the fall about him about to fail out.</p>

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<p>I did check on a GED for him a couple of months ago. In Virginia, he can’t take the GED until he is 18 and not enrolled in high school - he won’t meet that qualification for 10 months.</p>

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<p>“He is completely convincing in his determination to go to college this fall at UAB other than in his actions towards his English class.”</p>

<p>Well, what speaks louder, words or actions? Of course he is ambivalent. Of course he can’t admit directly that he’s terrified (or something). He may not even be aware that he’s sabotaging himself, but you can look at the facts and see that he’s doing it.</p>

<p>He underwent a personality transition 8 months ago…when senior year got underway and reality began to hit him in the face. This kid is making sure that he’s not going anywhere next year. The only other possibility is that he focused on electives at the expense of a required class because he’s hopelessly incompetent at prioritizing tasks. Either way, bad news in college.</p>

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<p>OP- I will go back to answer your original question- how many valedictorians don’t graduate? And the answer is- more than you think.</p>

<p>Hugs to you for managing what is a challenging situation.</p>

<p>I think you might be able to start a more productive dialogue with your son by owning up to your own role in this little mess. You have surely enabled some bad behaviors on his part- at a minimum, by not exerting your parental prerogative in asking the school to cut his schedule down to a manageable workload. But some perfectionism and brinksmanship as well- I’m sure in the dead of night when you can’t sleep, you can admit that it felt great to be the parent of an academic superstar.</p>

<p>He’s still a superstar- he just needs to finish high school to get moving with the next chapter in his life. And he needs you now- probably as much as he did when he was a toddler and was about to touch the hot stove, or swallow a car key just to see what it tastes like, or whatever danger/exploration he was up to.</p>

<p>In my experience, people do best when they take a walk to go get an ice cream cone (if the store is a mile from your house- that’s terrific) or some other side-by-side activity (raking leaves- but this isn’t the season). You need to start by owning up to your side of the mess- you allowed him to get in over his head because part of you was so proud and gratified that you’ve raised a kid who could handle a superhuman workload. You didn’t stop to consider what tradeoffs he’d be making in his serenity or down time or whatever you call it by taking on such a heavy load. And so you are apologizing to him for having let him down and by not protecting him as you should have. I think admitting that at least at the margins, you have been part of the problem will go a long way towards opening up some of his defense mechanisms.</p>

<p>And then you turn it over to him. Tell him that you are as excited as he is about college; you want to help him in any way that you can, but that there are a couple of obstacles in his way that he needs to find a way to fix. You are there to help, to strategize, to provide assistance, but he needs to be the prime mover here. You and the guidance counselor can’t pass English for him; you and the guidance counselor can’t go back in time and fix the papers that weren’t handed in.</p>

<p>But you are on his side 100% now and forever, and once he comes up with a plan-- summer school, community college, gap year, Americorps, whatever it is- you will be there behind him cheering him on.</p>

<p>But the days of you agonizing with the guidance counselor on how to fix this are over. He needs to come up with a plan and let you know how he needs your help to execute it. And that you are sorry that you let him down by not intervening when he became his own worst enemy- but that you’ve learned your lesson. And now that HE’S learned a lesson- that things like deadlines and homework and requirements have consequences for his life- you are going to head back to your corner and wait for him to let you know what he needs.</p>

<p>I think you guys have to stop what seems to be a bad pattern of Parent making phone calls, checking on things, lining up to-do’s, and son ignoring the data and advice the Parent offers up. I also think that if your son is indeed ready for college he will find a way to pass English. And if he’s not- good to know that before you buy the X-long sheets at Walmart and load up the minivan.</p>

<p>Stop offering him a gap year. Stop offering him to call VCU. Tell him that he’s going to be the captain going forward. He needs to look at himself in the mirror and recognize that if he doesn’t pass English he’s not going to college next year- and maybe that’s a good thing in his mind since he has been sabotaging himself for a long time over that.</p>

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<p>Mom: He’s done. He can’t make it go away and since the adults have been circling the wagons, there is no way out for him, so he’s angry at himself. You’re just along for the ride.</p>

<p>He made his bed and is continuing to sabotage himself. So what if he never goes to college? This will be HIS regret. He’ll see his friends on facebook at their colleges in the fall; he’ll want to go. Let him be. </p>

<p>Tell him: "Johnny, you know we’ve tried to help you; we’re completely out of ideas. We’ve tried to talk to you but you’re not willing to share your thoughts. So, as of this point, you’re on your own. I know this sounds harsh, but we can’t do this anymore, so when you’re ready to talk truthfully or need our help, let us know; we can wait because we love you. </p>

<p>I know he’s talented, but at the end of the day, it’s his life, you can’t fix everything and you wont be around forever. He needs to take responsibility for his former and current actions.</p>

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<p>I’m cynical enough to think that he will be awarded with a “gentleman C”, finding phantom credits and points so he can pass and attend UAB.
Idealistically, hoping the English teacher, guidance counselor and parents won’t let this happen but I’m sure this has been discussed as a solution.</p>

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<p>I agree that “burnout” is much more common than may be believed. Our S was pretty tired of HS, as was our D. Neither attended school more than 50% of the time in their last year of HS. Both were very careful to be sure to keep their grades up as best they could even with the absences, as a point of pride anyway.</p>

<p>The difference is that your S is sabotaging himself as everyone has said. The bigger problem is not really when and how your S gets his diploma but what comes next and when. I agree that he needs to figure out what he’s going to do, even if it means getting some minimum wage retail or food service job while he’s sorting out his options and/or makes the phone calls and meets with the instructors to figure out what is and is NOT salvageable. He is pouring more and more paint around the corner, making it harder for anyone to be of real help. </p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

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<p>You have mentioned several times that your son’s behavior has radically changed since last summer. Have you considered drug-testing him? None of us wants to believe that our high-achieving students could possibly be using drugs, but it is much more common than you might think. There are home drug tests that can be purchased at the pharmacy. Any form of drug use could definitely cause some of the behavior you’ve described.</p>