How many valedictorians don't graduate?

Parents Forum
81

<p>Reading through the first 3 pages or so of this thread, I feel like I may understand you son’s frame of mind.</p>

<p>[The following assertions are not my objective opinion. Even though it’s written in third person, I tried to write it as the way your son may be thinking about these things, not as what I think]</p>

<p>He’s nearing the end of high school. He’s in at his dream school. He resents the authority his parents have over him; their ability to dictate his driving, his curfew, his life. It isn’t that his doesn’t love his mom and dad, it’s just that wants to feel like an equal, not like a child to whom terms can be dictated to and who must report on his whereabouts. He wants his parents to butt out as much as possible: he wants to be in charge. He doesn’t want anybody trying to tell him what he can and cannot handle in his classes, he knows himself, he knows what he can do! He especially doesn’t need some shrink trying to analyze him or tell him what to do, jeeze!</p>

<p>Compounding this is a little arrogance and some senioritius. He’s asking the same question you are: how many valedictorians don’t graduate? To him, the answer is zero. It seems utterly unfathomable that the top student in the class won’t be at graduation. He’s won an amazing scholarship to the school he’s determined to attend. Not graduating is <em>literally</em> incomprehensible to him. After all, he has <em>40 credits</em>, it would be some sick joke that he would end up without a diploma.</p>

<p>This is the background noise.</p>

<p>Regarding English, I’m certain he was intending on doing those papers. Those missing assignments? They were so easy to let slip by. He wasn’t even in a physical classroom: no teacher reminding or other students working to get him thinking about it. As each deadline slipped by, he probably figured that he would come back later: email the prof, say he was sick or busy or something. Besides he was busy from other courses and clubs at the time; plus, those other courses were classes he really liked, that were more fun to work on, that he wanted to be his very best in. In English he decided he’d do a late assignment for half credit, later on, when he feels like it and when he’s not so exhausted. He doesn’t mind getting a B, grades aren’t a big deal anymore.</p>

<p>The deadline for the late work? He put it off until that last minute because that is when he has done some of his best work (and (in reality) he wanted to put it off as long as possible). Around 7 or 8 pm the night before the deadline for those late papers he sits down. He’s pretty tired from running a fundraiser the night before and just stares at the computer screen. He starts trying to type, but he just can’t seem to muster the ability to care. He isn’t bad at English, but he does not particularly like it and the amount of work before him will require one looooong night. And he JUST CAN’T find the willpower to even WANT to do it. He sees the light at the end of the tunnel; he sees his future college STEM courses where Hamlet and The Scarlett Letter are those barely-remembered pieces of high school. He is already miles away. When the school year started, he wanted to take AP Eng Lit because he is used to being in the best of the best classes. And even if he doesn’t particularly love English, regular English at school is a mind-dulling drudge through shallow fact regurgitating and low-level thinking he REALLY didn’t want to do (besides he wouldn’t want to admit to anyone that he might have taken on too many courses). So, back at his computer, he thinks to himself: “I’ll just say my computer died, I was sick, some Act of God came. I’ll email my prof tomorrow and genuinely beg for an extension.” Then he doesn’t. He just keeps putting it off. Mom asks about the assignments? He doesn’t want to get in trouble, he doesn’t want a lecture or to get screamed at. Plus, he can’t even think of a good reason for telling her why he didn’t do it. He knows there isn’t any logical reason, other than irresponsibility, and he doesn’t want to admit to that. After all, he’s resenting not being his own, autonomous, person.</p>

<p>As conversations about not graduating come up, he still doesn’t really believe it. He’ll manage to do make-up work to get to a D. Mom is calling the counselor daily, she’ll work something out. He’ll eventually get around to convincing his English teacher for extra credit to scootch him up to a D. UAB loves me; they won’t resend me for English.</p>

<p>And yet, even as part of him knows he’s in some deep trouble, he STILL resents that his parents are getting involved, reminding him, chiding him. Even as he proves himself unable to keep his priorities straight, he resents interference. AT THE EXACT SAME TIME, he’s glad that mom will handle the awkward call to UAB, that she’ll explain how he’s practically completed high school twice, that he has a 125% in physics and it’s just some dumb online English class holding him back. It’s not like he’s an English major or something. </p>

<p>The consequences probably start to seem very real to him while he’s talking to you, but a few hours after the conversation ends, he’s back in the wishful thinking, it’ll-work-out frame of mind.</p>

<p>END</p>

<p>After writing out all this, I don’t have any particular advice to give. [If there were a simple way to “fix” teenagers, parents across the nation would rejoice.]
This is what I understand to be his state of mind. And I think the consequences are going to have to hit him upside the head before he really understands that these rules and requirements still apply to him and that really bad things really do happen to class valedictorian. He honestly feels that an English class, in perspective to everything else, is such a tiny piece that it’s difficult to really believe (not to mention he doesn’t want to believe) that it will hold him back.</p>

<p>I can only hope that if he doesn’t end up at UAB, he’ll takes positive steps instead of resenting and signing off on the system.
From what you wrote about him, I disagree that these reactions are a “cry for help” or that he secretly really doesn’t want to go to UAB. These just sound like the illogical actions of an antsy, cocky, independence-craving teenager who sees freedom just around the corner, but still hasn’t mastered the self-control to get the important stuff done.</p>

<p>(and of course he doesn’t want a gap year. One whole additional year under mom and dad’s thumb seems like an eternity)</p>

<p>{ Disclaimer -
As I said above, I don’t believe many of the things I typed out when speaking from "his’ frame of mind. I don’t believe that he wouldn’t benefit from counseling. I don’t believe that normal English classes are boring. I don’t believe that you hold you son “under your thumb” (your standards seem quite reasonable and agreeable). I was trying to write the way I think he feels about these things, not the way they actually are.
}</p>

<p>tl;dr - teenagers often actively sabotage themselves. I don’t think his actions are a cry for help as much as an indication that he isn’t fully mature and responsible yet.</p>

82

<p>I’ve taught high school long enough to know that almost every bright young person “turns out”. You/he hit a bump in the road, and I’m sure he will learn and it’s only onward and upward from here!</p>

<p>Here’s the deal; he has accomplished A LOT!! So he screwed up ONE thing. (Just happened to be one really big thing.) But when comparing the massive amount of positives verses that ONE mistake, the positives far outweigh the negative.</p>

<p>Good luck! Be sure to cheer loud and long when he becomes a Dr.</p>

<p>Consequences…best learned early.</p>

83

<p>^^^
That’s sort of my way of thinking. Ironically I was more curious why he’s set on an MD when he seems more suited to math/physics at this point.</p>

84

<p>I don’t think ANY 17 “thinks about a PhD” unless it was suggested, encouraged or expected by parents. Why you’d ever talk to a kid about a PhD is beyond me.</p>

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<p>Back to the title of this thread…if you do NOT graduate, you can not BE the Val of the class that IS graduating.</p>

86

<p>I thought about a PhD when I was younger than 17. No prodding from parent. I was self-driven and did college research since middle school on my own (parent went to college, non-traditional route so it was really up to me because parent and I had both never done the process before). </p>

<p>I think it’s interesting that a graduating senior took on more than what was required in spring semester. Usually seniors want to get out. </p>

<p>While GED=HS diploma to many places and colleges, I don’t think OP is the normal candidate for one. No matter what, a GED isn’t a diploma. But if that’s the only option to keep scholarship money… Then again it would be a waste to send him if he can’t recognize his limits. </p>

<p>For sake of argument, I think enough posters have pointed out that if one doesn’t graduate, they can’t be valedictorian. No need to keep repeating it using caps-lock to emphasize. And we all understand what OP meant with the title.</p>

87

<p>Does he admit that he could do the work, and simply isn’t? Or is he claiming that he left it all out on the field? If he can just get his act together, it sounds like this will be nothing more than a rough patch and an embarrassment.</p>

<p>Are you close enough to any of his friends to confide in them? If they are clearheaded they will try to talk him into doing the summer school work, and he might be more apt to listen to a peer. </p>

<p>This is obviously a terrible situation to be in but as far as mistakes go, this is not as awful as you seem to think. His life is still very much intact. Friends, family, etc. The top student at a local school drunk drove into the side of a tunnel, killing her best friend of 18 years. David screwed his life up, but he won’t have to ever know what true regret is.</p>

<p>I also thought about a PhD before I applied to colleges, and did so of my own volition. I decided that now would be a poor time to make major life decisions, with everything that is going on.</p>

88

<p>I’m baffled. If I’ve got this right, your son is excelling in 9 of his 10 classes. In my opinion it’s time to stop stressing him out and let him drop the English and retake it this summer. I highly doubt UAB, or most anywhere else for that matter, would drop him because of his overload and the impact on this one class. All he needs to do is pass a regular English class, or maybe one at your community college could be substituted, so he can officially graduate high school before the fall. Will they allow him to walk? Is there any reason that he might be trying to avoid the graduation ceremony? I highly doubt he’s gotten into drugs and only one out of 10 classes is affected … Or did I read your posts wrong?</p>

<p>Edited … Sorry, I had missed your update in #65. I’m so glad to hear that all will be well if he completes the summer class. It’s not a bad lesson to learn before going to university and thank you for sharing this with us as there are lessons there for all of us as well. I’d still talk with him about whether he’s relieved he won’t be graduating with his class. There might even be some issue with having been a co-valedictorian …</p>

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<p>Whether or not the kid retains val status is so unimportant and trivial in life, it makes me wonder how much pressure there was to achieve that status or how much the parents reveled in that status.</p>

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<p>TBH there is no reason this kid should be named val or walk at graduation. Summer class is a great option and a very lenient consequence for this situation, since it would have taken so little effort just to pass the English course.</p>

<p>I just can’t understand why he would put work into 9 classes and just give up entirely on English. It’s not that difficult to do homework.</p>

<p>edit: To be clear, I don’t mean that last bit as an insult; I’m saying that because I genuinely don’t understand what happened.</p>

91

<p>I realize that the OP has left this thread, but still wanted to point out that if there is any category of college work in which following all of the rules, dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s is vital, it’s probably pre-med (unless it’s criminal justice).</p>

92

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<p>Depends on the individual. I’ve known college classmates who were below 17…including a 17 year old classmate who graduated from my LAC with high honors who were constantly on the ball in terms of prioritizing academics and fulfilling their adult responsibilities. Unless you were close to them, you’d probably wouldn’t even know they were under 18. </p>

<p>On the flipside, I’ve known plenty of adults…including some in their 50s who constantly flake out on such adult responsibilities and otherwise act like stereotypical teens/toddlers. </p>

<p>I can somewhat relate to OP’s son as I had similar issues with completing coursework though it was due to hitting the academic wall and going through an angry rebellious phase in my case. Only major difference was it happened to me as an overwhelmed 13 year old HS freshman at a NYC math-science HS. </p>

<p>After learning some valuable lessons from that, I lucked out with a near-full ride to a respectable LAC and found I was more than prepared for the academic work there as a 17 year old college freshman. </p>

<p>Although being gifted and having high intellect can help in college, time-management and the ability to get stuff done on time/early is just as…if not more important for success in college. From the OP’s own description, the S definitely lacks the last part. That includes doing stuff you may not care for/hate…but must be done. </p>

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<p>Plenty of HS classmates were talking about doing PhDs as freshmen. What’s more interesting is due to the extreme pre-professional orientation of many of their parents, such talk was often viewed in the same light as if their kids had said “I want to drop out”, “Travel the world for 10 years” or “I want to be a Hollywood actor/pro musician”.</p>

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<p>A few people wondered how DS would do if he made it to UAB so I thought I’d update. DS took 16 credits and earned Presidential Honors with a 4.0. There was some concern about how he would do in one class in particular, a required core course in medieval art. It was the only required non-science/engineering course he has to take so we were worried he would treat it like the English class he failed in high school. Instead, he got an A and found out over break that the teacher wants to keep his final paper as an example of a good paper for future students. If only he’d written papers like that in English last year.</p>

<p>He seems to love it at UAB and to have settled in well. We, including him, still don’t understand what happened last year but it appears to have been a temporary thing and getting out of high school moved him past it. To hear him talk about how he doesn’t understand why his suite-mate doesn’t go to classes or his frustration with his roommate not doing his dishes has been amusing. It feels like he’s grown up a bit. He even earned a TA position in the anatomy class he took 1st semester. He asked for help in registering for spring classes because he had a class at the same time registration opened that he didn’t want to miss (from what we can tell, he is adamant about not missing a single class). He taught me how to use the registration system so he didn’t miss out on any of the classes he wanted. He sent us the class schedule he prepared for his undergrad career to ask for input. He’s been pleasant over break and even experienced a little bit of homesickness 1st semester. </p>

<p>In response to a few of the comments made after I unsubscribed:</p>

<p>Having met many of his friends, I don’t believe DS is immature <em>for his age</em>. Is he immature compared to a 30 yr old? Yes. He is a year younger than the rest of the kids in his class and, if anyone’s ever commented on it, they’ve thought he acts older than he is.</p>

<p>We did not pressure him to be val, he pressured himself. I remember stumbling across a comment he made to a friend that he (DS) was determined not to let the #2 student get ahead of him. </p>

<p>We have never pushed him to earn a doctorate; the MD/PhD program was his idea. We both have doctorates so it’s not surprising he would have a doctorate as a goal but neither of us is in the medical field and we had no knowledge of MD/PhD programs before he decided that’s what he wanted to do (and contrary to what someone posted here, the vast majority of those programs most definitely are fully funded, including MIT/Harvard, UVA, VCU, UAB, JHU, Duke, and many, many more - do a search for MSTP programs or check [Medical</a> Scientist Training Program - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Scientist_Training_Program]Medical”>Medical Scientist Training Program - Wikipedia)). He wanted a way to combine his love for math/physics/engineering with his love for biology. Eventually he wants to design and implant improved prosthetics.</p>

<p>We are cautiously optimistic that the English issue from last year is over, particularly in view of how well he did in a class he didn’t want to take in the fall. He may still run into classes in his major that aren’t particularly enjoyable but he has now shown he can persevere and get through them successfully if he chooses to.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the update. Glad your DS is doing well.</p>

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<p>Great to hear! I was thinking about his story just a few days ago.</p>

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<p>So good to hear! I love updates and success stories!</p>