How many valedictorians don't graduate?

Parents Forum
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<p>“Option A where everything is great, he becomes an MD/PHD at low or no cost” </p>

<p>If anybody knows of any MD/PhD programs that are at “low or no cost,” please tell the world because I don’t think it exists!</p>

<p>I think the best plan is to set reasonable goals for him. Forget the MD program, the scholarship, and even the moving in process at UAB. The only goal right now should be passing English with a C. If that is not possible, the next goal should be finding an acceptable replacement. Them getting a diploma. Finally, to securing the spot at UAB and, hopefully, the scholarship. Have you finished your letter to the school yet? Are you sure he even still has the scholarship? Either way, good luck, from one Val to another. It’s been a long process for all of us and it is sad to see him fall by the wayside this late on the path.</p>

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<p>^Discussion doesn’t mean they really processed it. The MIT thing is a possibility.</p>

<p>I’ve seen plenty of senioritis. This isn’t it. For some reason the kid has sabotaged his graduation. I’ve got a math kid who also hates, hates, hates to write papers. He’s turned them in late - he even skipped a “write a poem” assignment freshman year and got a zero. Tanked his grade and may well have kept him from being a val. We had a little discussion about the difference between a zero and a D- in terms of averages. He’s a math guy he got it. I was glad he did it early in his high school career, but still pretty mad.</p>

<p>BTW I was a 16 year old high school grad, and my parents made me take a gap year, though I had done very well. I spent the year in France, it was great to do a year of growing up and exploring something else, before heading off to college. It was unusual then, but nowadays Harvard actually urges all students to take a gap year before matriculating.</p>

<p>PS I want Blossom to be my Mommy. :D</p>

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So did I. In fact, it could very well be a part of a complicated set of issues… I was just commenting that he knew the ground rules going in, so you can’t really pin that one on the parents (not that you were).</p>

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<p>I have a really dumb question. How does one actually take 10 classes? If the normal schedule is 7, doesn’t that mean there are 7 periods in a day? Ok, sometimes there is a zero hour so someone could take 8. But how do you physically take 10 classes? Am I missing something here?</p>

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<p>I have an update for any that care. We received the final decision on English today - his guidance counselor called me in tears to tell me it is impossible for him to pass English and he will not graduate with his class. We discussed summer school options and will discuss them with our son when he gets home from school. He can graduate about 6 weeks late by passing English in summer school. I then called his educational counselor to follow up on the email my husband and I sent yesterday. As long as our son completes his high school requirements by the time classes start, he will be admitted to UAB, keep his scholarship and even keep his admission to the Honors College. </p>

<p>Now it’s up to our son. If he wants to go to UAB in the fall, he’ll attend summer school and pass English. If he doesn’t, he won’t.</p>

<p>No, this is not our or his GC’s fault - it was his choice. We are his parents, not his warden. We made the choice to gradually allow him to make more and more decisions as he got through high school; we did not want the first time he had to deal with the consequences of his actions to be when he left home. He made the choice to take what he did this year and he will deal with the consequences of his actions, or inaction as the case may be wrt English. We do not feel that a gap year will help our son in any meaningful way. And, a scholarship at UAB for 4 years of out of state tuition and room is worth a boatload more than $9k - with the stipend and NMF scholarship, it’s worth around $106k. </p>

<p>All of the MD/PhD programs our son has researched (and he’s researched a bunch) are fully funded and include a living stipend so those programs are no cost or very low cost if the stipend doesn’t cover living expenses.</p>

<p>We know our son; none of you do. His guidance counsel has known our son for 4 years and agrees completely with us. She was overjoyed when I called her to let her know UAB was still in the picture. She had been hopeful it would be the case and was thrilled to hear it was. She is already planning to attend his delayed graduation.</p>

<p>I am unsubscribing from this thread and won’t see any further replies but I do want to say a couple of things. For someone to call a kid a “jerk” when they know almost nothing about him is unacceptable. For someone to think they know a kid well enough based on a few lines on a forum to tell us he isn’t ready for college is insane. It’s one thing to suggest this as a possibility but to outright tell us we would be wasting the school’s money to send the son we know best to school is absurd and quite an overreach. I never expected to be blasted like this when I asked 2 simple questions - does it happen often that named valedictorians don’t graduate and will a college accept a kid if they graduate late. </p>

<p>To the few of you that were civil and provided helpful comments, thank you. Your input was very much appreciated. The rest of you should remember the saying, “If you can’t say anything nice, don’t say anything at all.” I would add “helpful” to the “nice” part of this.</p>

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<p>“the son’s style of doing extremely well in some and extremely poorly in one, rather than balancing it with mediocre results in many classes or dropping classes.”</p>

<p>This was me in high school. I got lots of A’s and F’s, zero C’s. I had the highest SATs in my class, but the lowest grades, and failed to graduate (I still haven’t). I ended up Phi Beta Kappa at Harvard, but it was a long road to get there. There were a lot of reasons that things turned around for me, but a big one was that (with professional guidance) my parents finally accepted that they could not fix the high school situation. Instead, they backed off and set reasonable expectations for what I should do instead, allowing me to keep living at home as long as I got a job. I did, and within a few months I was doing better mentally than I ever had before. When I went off to college after two years of work, I was extremely successful, and watched as a lot of burned-out freshmen crashed around me. </p>

<p>Since then, I’ve worked with a lot of kids in this situation. There is lots of time for the OP’s son. Blossom has it right that a gentle, loving step back is a smart move here. Nothing has to happen this fall to make a great academic future possible. A kid this bright will figure out how to go to, and pay for, college down the road. </p>

<p>“If anybody knows of any MD/PhD programs that are at “low or no cost,” please tell the world because I don’t think it exists!”</p>

<p>[Brief departure from thread] They do exist. With MD/PhD and JD/PhD programs, tuition for the professional degree may be waived on the condition that the PhD is completed and the student pursues an academic track at graduation. If the student fails to complete the dissertation or pursues a professional job, they may have to repay the waived MD or JD tuition.</p>

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<p>Glad to hear it can work out for your son.</p>

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<p>I for one would like to hear from the OP how it worked out at the end of freshman year. I didn’t think there was an unhelpful post in the thread. Of course the OP has more information and may find some suggestions more or less useful, that’s the nature of message boards.</p>

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<p>“I for one would like to hear from the OP how it worked out at the end of freshman year. I didn’t think there was an unhelpful post in the thread”</p>

<p>I agree. The OP came in expecting everyone to agree with her and that didn’t happen, but her son acted in an extremely selfish and immature way and there has to be a reason for that. Of course it hurts to see yourself called out on a public board, even anonymously. And it hurts when your child is blamed for going down the wrong path. But people with plenty of experience in the exact situation offered to help. So the son continues on the path he’s been on, without solving the “why” behind this disastrous year. No matter the topic, when the “why” is skipped over, the problem doesn’t go away.</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, the English class which he is struggling with is taken online through the high school, perhaps other classes online as well? Also, in our area there is one high school which does staggered lunches so has classes through out the day and allows a few students to schedule solid the entire day with no lunch hour. Don’t know if that is the case here.</p>

<p>OP, I am so sad for your family and son about the graduation. It will be very hard to miss that group celebration. But great that UAB can still be an option. Perhaps once the crazy intensity of this year is over for him, he can collect himself and find within him the will to do what he needs for the summer school class. Wishing you the best and please let us know how things turn out.</p>

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<p>Based on your own quotes below, this still seems like a logical conclusion… you mentioned at one point that you think it is just teenage biology. I call that BS – not all teenagers act this way. I hope you are making him pay for his own English class this summer with no reimbursement no matter how it goes.</p>

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<p>If I were the OP, I’d volunteer do the English homework and assignments for my son to insure the 106K payout by UAB.
He just has to show up for summer classes and pass the tests and in class writing assignments, it is a regular English class after all.</p>

<p>Since the OP can’t afford to send him to a 4 year at full freight, she can’t afford to let the $$$ out of their grasp.</p>

<p>The student didn’t learn any life lessons.
He learned that he can do as he wishes and he is still golden.</p>

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<p>I feel like I’m reading about the latest AAU basketball superstar here, and he treats English like Allen Iverson used to treat “practice.” Hopefully this kid will get it together in time to be more than a playground legend, but owning his own behavior might be a good place to start.</p>

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<p>Perhaps this definition of a valedictorian will help the OP</p>

<p>“a student, usually the one ranking highest academically in a school graduating class, …”</p>

<p>so if he isn’t in the graduating class, can he be the valedictorian?</p>

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<p>Pizzagirl, AP English and Differential Equations were both online. There was a third online course that was supposed to be finished over the summer that he drug out until February so you have three extra courses.</p>

<p>Yes, younghoss is correct. The Val always graduates. If the presumptive Val doesn’t meet graduation requirements then they no longer qualify. The honor goes to the person in the graduating class with the highest GPA.</p>

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<p>AP English being online sheds a new light on the situation IMO. I’ve taken a few classes online (Stats and AP Physics C), and if you are not relatively self-controlling, they are very easy to fail. That said, if you meet the deadlines most of the time, they are often very easy. I found mine to be very straightforward and received higher grades in them than in many classroom courses because it was more organized and I never forgot an assignment.</p>

<p>If the S is not very good at managing himself, then an online course in itself was a tough choice. I took online classes in math and physics because the classes interested me, so I found the time and energy to put 5-15 hours a week into keeping a high grade in the class. I would NEVER take an online class in history as I hate history classes and find that most homework assignments are busy work. Seems that an online AP class in a subject that the S doesn’t like was a very, very poor choice.</p>

<p>It is much easier to fail an online class than a classroom course. All you have to do is ignore it entirely. At least in person the teacher will harass you about completing your work.</p>

<p>But he should know that. IMO, the son cut his safety net and jumped.</p>

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<p>This thread just makes me sad.</p>

<p>It’s completely obvious that the boy can do the work, and do it at an exceptionally high level.</p>

<p>What’s equally clear is that he has a degree of immaturity completely equal to his level of academic achievement.</p>

<p>The parents have obviously made sure to fertilize his academic talent, but it seems that they didn’t put similar effort into developing other attributes that he will need to succeed.</p>

<p>Perhaps dealing with this fall out will help teach him the lessons his parents never did. I am not talking about punishing the child–just letting him deal with natural consequences of his actions by himself.</p>

<p>Let him explain to friends and family and classmates that he is not graduating, and that, no, he is not a valedictorian. I’m sure there will be lots of questions when he does not walk, and when his name is not listed in the program, much less not as valedictorian or even salutatorian. </p>

<p>I think that at this point, I would be inclined to do just about nothing for this child with respect to finishing his graduation requirements. Hopefully he will have a job to pay for summer school, if there is a fee; I wouldn’t give him access to any graduation presents that might be coming his way, because he hasn’t graduated. I would leave him alone to let him do the required work, or not.</p>

<p>While the OP says that her son is adamant about going to college in the fall, to me it just sounds like a typical teenager having a temper tantrum, believing that the louder he gets the more “right” he is.</p>

<p>Because the fact is…if he were adamant about going to college this fall, he would have taken pains to pass the class, especially when told he was in danger of failing and needed to do the missed assignments to pass.</p>

<p>He sounds like an irate, tantruming toddler who needs to be given a time out or a nap (ie., a break) for his own good. When my boys were little, they knew they didn’t get their milk and cookies until the toys were back on the shelves. No clean up, no treat. Having a melt down didn’t get them a treat because the toys were still on the floor. </p>

<p>The principle here isn’t much different. He’s a really, really smart boy–he knew exactly what he had to do.</p>

<p>If he really, really wanted to go to college (and I think he wants to get out of the house, and have the freedom, and get away from the parental units) he would have picked up his toys.</p>

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<p>I have a more charitable view. He IS immature. There is a world of difference between 17 year old boys and 19 year old boys. I suspect everyone just went along with whatever he wanted because he is clearly a bright boy. He probably had not yet experienced failure or an inability to pull it out in the 9th inning. This in itself is a lesson many, many boys have to learn. All three of mine had to pull at least one class in high school out their proverbial hind ends and they all learned the lesson about balance. A lesson that many kids don’t even learn until the are in college. So the OP and her son now have THAT lesson behind them. The failure – and several hold culpability – was to let him take too many classes. Yes, perhaps to over fertilize the tender shoot. As a parent, a teacher, a GC, etc. you absolutely can say “no” just to prevent a train wreck. But he’s learned a very, very hard lesson and he’ll be off to college just not quite in the “style” he planned (as val). There’s no going back, but only looking forward. Hopefully there are no other maturity issues, but none that I see that OP has alluded to.</p>

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<p>I could not agree more boysx3. Unfortunately what I see happening is the same thing we witnessed here, a lot of justification. “He has plenty of credits to graduate, just not the right credits.” Remember, he’s got 40 when only 24 are needed. I hear mom breaking in to explain, sparing him the embarrassment, “It’s all rather silly. He’s just got to finish up an English class. You know he took ten classes this year! UAB didn’t care. You know he has a full ride!”.</p>

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<p>^^there is some of that but these days people get their own image very wrapped up in the success of their children or in the case of schools, their students. Parents, principals, GCs, could have told this kid that he could have checked the box with an easy peasy English class, but no one opened their mouth and the kid probably thrived on and off his reputation and at 17 just didn’t have the life experience to ride it through to the end because he was already at the front of the pack. My third was a bit of an over reacher competitive type and I definitely had him reign it in for senior spring…said no to “one more AP.” He did thank me about half way through senior spring as he finished with a bang instead of limping to the finish line. The OP is probably shell shocked and reaching for excuses, so I have to have some compassion for that situation. The absolute BEST thing the OP can do, is make sure her kid doesn’t do a repeat freshman fall…freshman fall is a perfect time NOT to overload. My S3’s uni recommends that freshman only tackle 12-15 credit hours and it requires an over-ride to overload. Second semester they can load up, but not freshman fall.</p>