<p>Perhaps I do have a high expectation. I just didn't expect a college to be 3 times easier than H.S. All my H.S. buddies at U of I and other state schools agree. Also, I never met anyone around me at U of I or Madison(thru my friends' anecdotes) who said that this school or Madison were too demanding (except engineers or premeds). On the other hand, I hear my NU buddies complaining frequently. This is why I thought that NU could be tougher. Of course, I am no expert in this subject, but that is what I and many of my friends came to agree upon this year.</p>
<p>delivery man, that is almost always the case. Engineering and premed majors are the toughest. Most Humanities and Social Sciences are relatively easy. They require a lot of reading and writing, but they aren't challenging. Whether you are a student at Northwestern or Illinois shouldn't matter really. </p>
<p>You should transfer, perhaps to NU or Chicago. I know for a fact that Chicago's Econ department is TOUGH! I said above that Econ is what you make of it...but not at Chicago (or MIT for that matter).</p>
<p>I think Alex hits it--B's are pretty much just showing up and doing the minimum work in an OK manner. A's take work and are much harder to get. UW has a mid-grade between A and B (AB=3.5 gpa points) which really limits the number of A's given out. That said I think NU would be a bit harder mostly due to being on the quarter system and zooming through material in 10 weeks instead of 15, even if you take fewer classes each period.</p>
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Here is your answer...sorry NW guys, but grade inflation is more pronounced at Northwestern and and NW is easier to get good grades. </p>
<p>Delivery Man- I don't know what your friends are *****ing about, the average GPA at Northwestern is ~3.4.
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<p>Your argument is flawed. According to the site you gave me, NU's avg. gpa is 3.38. And, Stanford's avg. gpa is 3.44. Does this mean that Stanford is an easier school than NU? It is probably because Stanford students on average are more qualified and stronger students than NU students and tend to perform a bit better. Also, Harvard's avg. gpa is 3.4 as well. So, this should mean that Harvard is easier than Madison...your argument is completely ridiculous. </p>
<p>Same thing goes to Madison vs. NU. Madison, just like any other state schools, has tons of people who don't even care about academics. On top of that, Madison is a lot larger and I willing to argue that the proportion of the students who are academically motivated at Madison is smaller compared to NU's. These people will bring down the gpa for the whole school. Therefore, it is irrational to consider the average gpas for entire schools, but you need to consider how the school's rigor differs to a student on individual and subjective basis.</p>
<p>I'm at UW right now and it's not too bad, but I have a pretty easy major (political science). UW's intro classes are often graded on brutal pre-set curves. In my intro psych class, for example, 50% of the class got Cs or lower on a predetermined curve. It didn't matter if the median was a 95%. Someone with that score would get a C. The median happened to be around a 72%, as it was a really impossible class, but most intro classes here work on this system.</p>
<p>Grading tends to get more lenient as you work your way up. This is reflected in the average GPAs of freshman vs. the average for seniors. Freshman have a sub 3.0 average, whereas seniors hover around a 3.2 or 3.3</p>
<p>switch major to industrial/systems engineering, still business-type of major, but could be a little harder, will definitely take more time to get a B. I'm not really sure how challenging economics can get, all the economics courses I took in college were nowhere near as time consuming/challenging as my engineering classes. </p>
<p>I don't really understand why you are complaining that it's too easy, I'm sure there are plenty of harsh grading courses at UW-Madison, if you want a bad GPA, just take a boatload of those. check out the Pickaprof website for the lowest average GPA classes at UW.</p>
<p>The top 30% or so of the students at UW-Madison will be on a par with 100% of the students at Northwestern.</p>
<p>Therefore, the competition for grades will be more fierce at Northwestern, where <em>everybody</em>, not just the top 30%, is incredibly bright and hard working.</p>
<p>It is the same comparison with all the large presitigous publics vs. much smaller privates -- UW, UMichigan, UCLA, Berkeley, UVA, UNC, etc.</p>
<p>I ain't switching major just so that I can get a lower gpa. I am not nuts. I am studying what I am interested in and this school happens to be a little bit easy for me. I have no interest whatsoever in any engineering or science classes. I ain't complaining about the ease of the school. I just wished that there was a bit more challenge within my area of interest. And, I am simply suggesting that Madison or U of I are easier than NU, in order to answer OP's question properly.</p>
<p>"The top 30% or so of the students at UW-Madison will be on a par with 100% of the students at Northwestern."</p>
<p>"It is the same comparison with all the large presitigous publics vs. much smaller privates -- UW, UMichigan, UCLA, Berkeley, UVA, UNC, etc."</p>
<p>Dunnin, I am not sure I follow your math. You are way off. The top 30% at UVa, Michigan and Cal graduate with straight 4.0 GPAs (unweighed) and SAT scores of 1400 or more. That's roughly equal to the top 50%-75% of the students at elite private universities, not 100% as you claim. The 50th percentile SAT score at UVa, Cal and Michigan hovers between 1320-1340. That's roughly equal to the 75% percentile at most of th smaller private elites. </p>
<p>In short, I would say that the top 30% of the students at prestigious public universities are on par with roughly 60% of the students at smaller private elites and 50% of the students at prestigious publics are on par with 75% of the students at smaller private elites.</p>
<p>Business is never going to be the hardest major at any school, nor is Econ. You picked an easy major, it's not the school that's easy. I never remembered any of my friends in the Business school complaining that their homeworks are very challenging, and Michigan Ross is one of the best schools for undergraduate business.</p>
<p>I agree with delivery man on this subject. My friend transferred from Madison to Cornell and he says that Cornell is so much harder. He was Econ major at Madison and he is Econ major here as well. Also, comparing the average gpa from school to school and arguing that NU is "easier" as a result of higher average gpa is foolish. A 3.4 at NU is not the same as 3.4 at Madison. Two schools have different student bodies in terms of academic caliber. There may be other variables that explain why NU's average gpa is higher. Like delivery man said, Madison is much bigger than NU and its selectivity is much lower, which leads many mediocre students to end up at Madison. These student are obviously going to down average gpa at that school. NU, on the other hand, is smaller and NU students, on average, are much stronger than average Madison student.</p>
<p>Keefer:</p>
<p>Whether or not Business major or Econ major is a relatively easy major has nothing to do with this discussion. I am an Econ major and I frequently hear engineers complain about their hard classes. In the end, as long as you have stellar gpa, an Econ degree or business degree will land you a rewarding job and quite possibly much better job than an engineer with crappy gpa. Besides, Econ or business major is actually relatively a hard major compared to others such as psychology, government, and many others.</p>
<p>You are right. However, people on this thread seemed to believe that different schools would be equally challenging to a student as long as the major or courses taken are same at different schools. I was challenging this notion, though.</p>
<p>Regardless of which is harder (NU), I'll bring up a couple points. Northwestern's Econ program is one of the best in the world (at least by reputation). Northwestern's school of music is one of the best in the country. This seems like an obvious choice. As for partying, almost no schools in the country will compare with Madison on that front- people who compare NU to UW are deluding themselves. That said, NU's partying scene, despite its critics, is still outstanding, and as was said the Greek Life on campus is thriving. Unless you ahve compelling financial reasons, this seems like an obvious choice- if you want the best possible education and oppurtunities, go to NU and work hard. If you want pretty good opportunities with less work, go to Madison- you'll likely be able to pull down equivalent grades with less work, leaving more time to party.</p>
<p>Both UW's and NU's economics depts are regularly ranked at the lower end of the Top 10. UW just hired away one of NU's top Econ profs.</p>
<p>"We also said goodbye to two other senior faculty members this summer. ... We will also miss Chris Taber very much, who has been here since he began as an Assistant Professor more than ten years ago. Chris is now at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.</p>
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And although quarters are shorter than semesters, one must remember that on average, students typically take fewer than 4 courses by quarter compared to 5 courses per semester.
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<p>Actually at NU, 45 courses are required to graduate, except in the school of engineering, where 48 are required. NU actually demands high number of courses than average quarter school (more than Dartmouth, Carleton, Stanford...).</p>
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But then you take only 3 to 4 courses each quarter instead of 5 to 6 each semester
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<p>I used to think semester schools require that much, having done my freshmen year at WashU. But that's actually not true. At UMich, the engineering school catalog indicates engineering students take 4 courses only in quite a few of the semsters. USC has the same thing (engineering). It seems like 4 to 5, instead of 5 to 6 are more the norm these days for semsester schools. </p>
<p>So in short, I think NU is more on the heavy side due to the unusually high number of courses required, while UW may be more like at the average.</p>
<p>patlees88, we were talking about difficulty of curriculum weren't we, not job prospects after graduation...so i don't know where you get this idea from. which I don't really agree with you. Having graduated from Michigan Engineering a few years ago myself, and worked for a few years, I'd say Engineering majors are in the highest demands, especially at the entry level, where quantitative and analytical skills are most useful.</p>
<p>I know this is about Northwestern and UW-Madison, but the underlying assumption that some one school is harder than another simply because of USNEWS rankings is false, especially when they are so close such as Wisconsin and Northwestern. </p>
<p>Cornell is a hard school, no doubt, but I don't think there's any grade deflation, not more so than any of its peers. I looked at the average GPA for Cornell classes, and most of them are in the B+/A- range, which would translate to roughly a 3.3+ average GPA. Cornell also does not have a high suicide rate, contrary to popular myths. </p>
<p>I got into Cornell when I was applying to colleges, and have taken classes there. I didn't think they were any more or less difficult than my classes at Michigan.</p>