<p>My son took the SAT did fair, not really in the range for many of the top tier schools he is in contact with on a regular basis. I know there is some "room" for athletes but it seems to be a very gray area. How do you know just how low they will go for an athlete? Is this something its OK to ask the coach point blank? None of them have really said one way or another but ask him for his scores and when hes taking the test(s), he is nervous because everything else is lining up really well but the test scores.</p>
<p>One school already told him he is not a strong candidate but we weren't surprised, its an ivy and we never thought of it being within his reach. Obviously he doesn't want to waste time on a school that ultimately will not accept him. Anyone with experience in this area, would love to know your thoughts. Thank you.</p>
<p>It’s perfectly fine, acceptable, and expected to speak with the coach about the scores - in fact, if your son is being recruited, the coach will tell you what is needed to gain admission.</p>
<p>In many schools, even if the score is fine for admissions, a certain score is needed to get a few academic scholarship dollars; and, academic scholarship dollars are an added bonus for coaches as they can offer less in athletic dollars or can make a private school affordable when piggy backed on a partial athletic scholarship.</p>
<p>Additionally, if the SAT is not his forte, try the ACT. We have seen instances where students with good GPAs do much better on the ACT when compared to the SAT. If you take the ACT, make sure you take the version the school requires (with or without writing).</p>
<p>Good luck and keep the forum updated so others can benefit from your experience.</p>
<p>A lot will depend on your son’s athletic talent and how much the coach wants him.</p>
<p>Yes, ask the coach. You’re unlikely to get much information from his answer but it’s not because he doesn’t want to be helpful it’s just that there are so many variable, it’s likely not his decision ultimately, and he doesn’t know.</p>
<p>And the people on this forum can be more helpful to you if you tell us the sport and some examples of the schools your son is considering.</p>
<p>he is a lacrosse player (also football) but getting recruited for lacrosse. He has a 3.5 in a academic parochial school. Schools are the top liberal arts schools (think top 15). Hope this might help.</p>
<p>If the schools are D3, the coach can offer nothing on which you can bet the house - and have varying degrees of pull with admission. As a very general rule of thumb, the more selective the D3 (e.g., Haverford, Amherst) the less the coaches soothing words should actually sooth an applicant.</p>
<p>At the other extreme, D1 coaches can give you commitments and follow it up with the NLI. At powerhouse athletic D1 schools, the coaches have great sway (some might even say, control) over admissions (assuming NCAA eligibility). Except, of course, Ivy league schools which have their own methods.</p>
<p>I guess what I am asking is for a top D3 school…would lets say a school who normally takes a 28 or above consider a 25 (ACT) or for SAT if they normally take a 1900-2100 would a 1700-1800 be out of the question? IF this is an athlete they really want? Wondering with D3 just how luck leeway these coaches have?</p>
<p>Thats not exactly a question we can ask a coach point blank, but we want to be sure he is not spending all this energy with the wrong schools.</p>
<p>You can ask a coach point blank, they will want to know anyway. The question I have is can he handle a top school? If he got a 25 on an ACT or the 1700 on the SAT, is is really prepared to handle the work at a “top” school—along with playing a varsity sport? You really need to evaluate that. I would expect a student from a “top prep school” to score better on exams, as will the college. There is nothing wrong with applying to a reach school, just make sure he has some reasonable options in there as well.</p>
<p>In addition, it may depend specifically on the school and it’s conference. If you are considering NESCAC schools, the process and methodology is the same but the banding numbers are different for each school. NESCAC use a banding system A through D for example. For example an “A” band at Williams (700+ SAT, GPA A’s, top 5% of class) is higher than an “A” band at Connecticut College. If you understand that, there may be an opportunity to pursue some of the lower bands (C & D) at some of the NESCAC schools that offer lacrosse. Ask the coach (or admissions) about their specific athletic recruiting bands. Good luck!</p>
<p>To be clear he is an A/B+ student in a very rigorous school widely recognized as being tough. He is well above average even for non athletes as far as his grades and curriculum. BUT he is not a great test taker, many kids are this way and he is not alone. He gets very anxious and I think 4 years of doing very well far outweighs a test taken over a 4 year period. </p>
<p>In fact I attended an interesting conference in Pasadena a few months ago which was a panel to address this very subject and clearly the trend is moving away from mandatory scores and it would not surprise me to see a big chunk of schools within the next 4 years do away with them or make them optional, many already are. My daughter was a great test taker, actually did better on her SAT than her GPA! </p>
<p>I guess what I was asking and did not word very well was how much leeway will a top school give for an athlete? They have already said he is fine gradewise, we know they are interested in him as an athlete and now it comes down to the scores. I guess it varies between certain schools. Are some known to have more leniency than others?</p>
<p>I think it depends 1. how good a recruit he is …and 2. his scores. 3. how the previous 2 relate to the specific school’s sat ranges.</p>
<p>For example, If he is one of the top 3 recruits at school A, and his ACT is 25. If the school mean is 28, then I think with good coach support he has a good chance. But if he is not being supported strongly, then all bets are off.</p>
<p>The coach should be able to get a handle on this by asking the admissions office for a preread. This is common to do and many colleges will ask the athlete for copies of scores, transcripts etc… </p>
<p>So ask any of the interested coaches when the best time would be for a preread with admissions.</p>
<p>momoffour11–he can be the “best” student in his school but if he only gets a 25 on his ACT and a 1700 on his SAT he isn’t getting into a top school even as an athlete. He has a 3.5 GPA, that is not bad, but it’s not top school good with that test score either. It is what it is. There are 1000’s of kids that go to very strong high schools that are excellent athletes that have been stats then he does and still don’t get into these schools. You have to be realistic about his chances. Again, have him pursue his dream school, but he needs to identify several other schools that are more realistic and some that are a safety.</p>
<p>My son had a 3.57 gpa from an all-male Catholic HS and was exactly where your son is with his SAT. In the end, he wound up receiving 3 NESCAC slot offers to play football.</p>
<p>Coaches needed to know his test scores up front… and brought them to the pre-read with Admissions, once they determined they wanted to offer him a slot. Ad-Com considered his test scores, along with strength of transcript, extra curriculars, coach’s desire, etc… in order to tell the coaches whether they could continue recruiting him.</p>
<p>The test scores won’t need to come into play again at test-optional schools, unless the applicant/recruit wishes to submit them with his or her app.</p>
<p>…And if you haven’t done so already, maybe consider looking at Catholic LACs… they tend to go out of their way to support (with admissions and FA) kids who matriculate from parochial high schools. </p>
<p>I did a search on College Navigator to ID Catholic colleges/Universities which offer Lacrosse for men, and then sorted the query by state. You can change the list view to sort by name, etc:</p>
<p>Thanks for all the good advice, he has had a preread from several schools already with the exception of one, they have all come back and said he would be a strong candidate. </p>
<p>I beg to differ (respectfully) with Steve though…two people we know well, one my nephew attends a top 5 “little ivy” had a lower GPA and got a 24 on the ACT (also attended a very competitive school) and he attends it for lacrosse, in his second year and doing great. He had a coach that really pulled for him but he had offers from several top schools.</p>
<p>The other example is my sons best friends brother who as a senior also just committed to another top nescac (think top 3) and though his gpa was strong (public school) his test scores were very low, so while I don’t disagree its very important to be realistic and I certainly am, we know several examples that do not fully support what you are saying. That said, a lot seems to depend on how much a coach is willing to stick his neck out for you, I definitely think that’s a big factor for someone that is on the borderline.</p>
<p>I am confident it will all work out, I can say with confidence that he has been in regular contact with the entire gamut, from schools that would be safeties all the way to his “dream school”…I want him to ultimately end up in a school he loves that will be a great fit for him both athletically and academically. Having a daughter at an ivy who is not an athlete, I know the rigors of a top school and it is not easy. She works literally around the clock. Best of luck to everyone going through this!</p>
<p>What it really boils down to is that the answer to your question varies by school and by coach. If he has already had positive feedback from some programs on his preread, then you are going in the right direction. Definitely have this conversation with interested coaches- it is all part of the recruiting process. For soccer, my son found that each program was different, and most coaches were pretty upfront with him. We do know several athletes who received positive pre-reads, and were subsequently denied admission to programs, so just be sure to always have a back-up plan. Also, as someone else suggested, I would definitely have him take the ACT. A lot of kids do better with the test format than with the SAT. Good luck!</p>
<p>Although a little off topic…I would like to respond to what SteveMA alluded to in regards to a 25 ACT might having difficulty juggling both sport and academics. I believe that any student (ACT=25) who has attended an average US high school, and has taken a more rigorous curriculum, will be successful at any US elite university/college with the proper effort. I believe success will have more to do with discipline than test-taking abilities. Therefore, the level of difficulty of the material at Harvard undergrad is not much different than UMASS-Boston undergrad. Are the kids smarter at Harvard? Yes, but the kids at UMASS-Boston have the mental capacity to achieve the basic knowledge that undergraduate studies provides. Bottom line …the average UMASS-Boston student would be able to pass at Harvard.</p>
<p>If the schools he is interested in haven’t already contacted him about this, I would suggest reaching out to the coaches as soon as possible. Tell them his scores and GPA, ask them if it’s enough or if he needs more. Ask if he re-tests and scores higher are the chances of admission a lock (well, a fairly certain lock)? Ask them. I had a friend whose child had a coach of a very good school very interested, and the kid was bright but SAT score was low for school (but by no means low). Coach flat out said I’d like to have you – go raise your SAT.</p>
<p>You need to talk to the respective coaches because their real level of interest will be exposed and if it’s a no, as it was for the one Ivy you mentioned, then so be it – you now know and can move on without wasting any further time. Yes,…calling the coaches would be the best move imo. none of us have the power to push your son through admissions so we can’t really say, but feeling these coaches out to see which ones are willing to do this is, i believe, the best couse of action.</p>
<p>Also, remember that as an athletic recruit, his admission is not holistic, it is numbers based. While his academic performance throughout 4 years of HS may indeed be a better reflection of his abilities, that is something left to an adcom. The coach is given an index he must meet and the athlete is a set of numbers combined with his desirability as a player. In a way, the athletic recruiting is more transparent than regular application pocess but this is not to you son’s advantage necessarily. Absolutely, you can and should ask the coach point-blank. If the coach knows his stuff and isn’t the type to string you along just incase, he will tell you what numbers he needs for his admissions office. He won’t waste his support on someone he can’t get past those doors. Good luck!</p>
<p>all this score stuff really has me laughing,</p>
<p>typically the starting five at a D1 basketball power avg ACT18-20
avg ACT score of the bench 29-34 so a single bench player indexed equals two starters stil give you that </p>
<p>Coaches play with that number, so they need athletes that can hit those numbers or athletes that are gonna be impactful and sell a lot of merchandise and since the later has probably never heard of this site it a good bet that you think of sport from the standpoint of academics.</p>