<p>My son is a junior who is interested in swimming in college - a lower level d1 or higher level d3 school. we are planning visits over easter break but not sure if he should bother at the top LAC, like Middlebury or Hamilton, based on academics/sat scores. My son takes mostly AP classes/honors and has a weighted average of 100. He is also an all-county drummer and all long island swimmer. his swimming stats would put him maybe 3rd or 4th on the team in his events, maybe better, depending on how fast he gets. The problem is the SAT. We are hoping for a 1200 - 1250 when he takes it again in May. Should we even bother looking at these schools? How much leeway is there?</p>
<p>Google “academic index” and plug the numbers. If they really want him for athletics and he can get over 180+ on the index, there may be hope. Regardless, your son will have fantastic choices. Best of luck.</p>
<p>Many LACs will accept someone w/a lower SAT score if they one of their top picks athletes. Are you saying he received 2, lower 600’s? Those are not horrible.
You could try the ACT, or check out schools for which the SAT is optional, some of those schools require SATIIs instead, but most do not require SAT score submission.</p>
<p>I agree with BrainCramp to compute the Academic Index as best as you can from the scores/GPA your athlete has right now to get an idea…I believe that 171 is the lowest AI that an ivy can take (and I imagine that would be for their top recruits only).</p>
<p>Use the unweighted gpa in your calculations. Even with this, it sounds like his AI would be well within range. You will need class rank if your school ranks.</p>
<p>I am not sure why you are all recommending academic index? I see no mention of Ivy in the post.</p>
<p>radannie, You are right, there was no mention of ivies. However, Middlebury, Hamilton, etc. may have some swim teams that are on par with lower Div. 1, which certainly could include some ivy swim teams - I don’t know anything at all about which schools are stronger than other in the worlds of Div. 1 and Div. 3 swimming. However, it sounds like he is a good student and a strong swimmer - he could be a good fit for a lot of places.</p>
<p>I so much appreciate everyone’s encouraging comments. Thanks for the AI calculator - I tried it even though I had to make up SATII scores. Yes its true we’re not looking at Ivies, just some of the schools I mentioned, maybe more. I guess I’m wondering if anyone knows what the minimum SAT per section might be, considering that its swimming; I’m assuming that the leeway might not be as great as some of the other sports. Our guidance counsellor said a minimum of 650 per section. I guess I’m hoping that for some of these LACs that achievement in music will also help him despite his weaker standardized test scores. Has anyone ever called admissions at a college and asked them point blank some of these questions?</p>
<p>You should try asking the swim coach, he will be able to tell you pretty clearly. If your son is his number one recruit, the SAT requirement will be quite different than if he is # 4 or 5 on the list.</p>
<p>However, if your son’s times stay at near the times of the fourth or fifth swimmer at the college, his chances are diminished. Is he still growing, and lowering his times? All could change by fall of his senior year.</p>
<p>I would also recommend contacting the coach. They know better than anyone what their admissions folks want.</p>
<p>My son did much better on the ACT than the SAT. Have you considered trying the ACT? Some kids just do better on a different type of test. Has he done any prep? </p>
<p>My son just finished the swimming recruitment process and although I have no concrete facts, just anecdotal stories, some of the small LACs like those you mentioned are harder to get into than some Ivies due to the small teams they carry, thus fewer slots. Just what I have heard over the past couple of years, but I have no idea if it is true.</p>
<p>My daughter swims at one of the schools you are talking about. I’d be happy to talk to you about it. Send me a private message if you would like.</p>
<p>By the way, look at the conference championship times and get an idea where your son’s times fit in. Coaches are looking for times in the first or second heat of finals for impact.</p>
<p>Again, be happy to speak with you about it</p>
<p>i was wondering if anyone here can help me with my son who is a senior at a public high school. has an unweighted gpa of 3.65 and is 29th in his class of 400. he has a junior national cut time in his sport (swimming) and his overall times are quite competitive with all the schools he has applied to. </p>
<p>He had very average SAT’s and his SAT 2’s were all 600 (even). He has been called every two weeks by an Ivy League swim coach who tells him he will do his very very best to get him in to the school. My son would never be able to get into this school on his own although I am confident that he would do very well there as he is an excellent student (even if his SAT scores dont support that fact). His times would put him in the top 2 or 3 swimmers in his best events. The coach calls and they talk about everything BUT college for sometimes 20 minutes , maybe more…we tried to have my son ask the coach this week what his timeline looked like and the response he received was that the coach wouldnt know ANYTHING until the end of February. He said he would get a list from admissions at that time and as soon as he knows anything he would contact my son…I have been reading everything here all weekend and what the coach is saying seems to contradict everything I have read…can anyone give me some ideas what my son should be asking/doing right nw? Do you ever hear of parents calling the coach? The bottom line is my son will have offers from other schools but he REALLY wants this one however I dont want him passing on those other schools for a pipedream…any and ALL advice is welcome…feel free to email me at <a href="mailto:jevan@worldtrophies.com">jevan@worldtrophies.com</a> !!! thank you!!!</p>
<p>^^ Has your son been out on an official visit to the school? If coach is waiting for a list from admissions, I’m guessing that the likely letter meeting is taking place in late Feb. The question is whether coach has submitted your son’s ap to admissions for LL consideration.</p>
<p>As to parent calling coach, personally I wouldn’t - but maybe sitting down with S to compose an email to the coach might be a good way to get some answers</p>
<p>thanks for your reply varska. he was asked by the coach to “keep a recruiting trip spot open” in the spring. so just to clarify, the coach typically would send a list of his recruits to admissions first and then he in turn would receive notification of who would get a likely letter? any info you have on this process is appreciated!</p>
<p>The question is whether coach has submitted your son’s ap to admissions for LL consideration.</p>
<p>i meant to answer this above…my S sent his application directly to admissions. would a coach who was truly interested ask to have their recruit send their application directly to him?</p>
<p>In my experience, the coach would definitely let the recruit know he is being put up for a LL. In return, the coach would want a commitment from your son that if he gets the likely, he will attend. </p>
<p>Maybe this conversation will happen in the future - I’m not sure how the swimming recruiting timetable goes. In the meantime, I think it would be a fair question to ask the coach how the timing of official visits and LL meetings works. They understand that you’re also entertaining offers from other schools.</p>
<p>Sending the ap directly to admissions is normal. I assume you probably sent the coach unofficial scores and transcripts somewhere along the way.</p>
<p>
Your son’s HS coach and/or club coach (I assume swimming also has clubs) should be able to help with this question … what are the norms of recruiting … what actions by a coach (and when) indicate heavy interest or conditional interest, etc.</p>
<p>thanks again for responding! believe it or not our club coach does very little helping the kids with recruiting and does not seem to have a lot of knowledge on the processs.</p>
<p>when visiting the school this summer S brought his unofficial transcripts so the coach is aware that he is below the standards of the school. </p>
<p>i like the idea of having my son email him questions since he is having difficulty asking them on the phone…
in your experience does a coach have a list of athletes that he sends down to admissions? i think that is a key question to ask because if he isnt supporting his application then all of his talking and calling and hopes to get him means nothing really…can you think of anything else I should ask? thanks again!!!</p>
<p>Yes, in my experience the coach will compile a list of the athletes that he wants and submits it to admissions. Admissions, of course, has the final say. Most coaches will want a verbal commitment from the athlete before putting them on the list.</p>
<p>Wouldn’t a coach have admissions do a pre-read before they invite an athlete for an official visit and start talking about LL’s and verbal commitments? </p>
<p>Regarding the ivy coach in question for this swimmer, if he has seen the swimmer’s transcripts and test scores, & has therefore seen they are below average for the typical student at this school, he must think he can get this athlete through admissions regardless, right? Otherwise, why would he be talking about saving an official visit slot, etc.?</p>