<p>I know this is different for each family and each circumstance, but I just want an idea of what the "average" family thinks.</p>
<p>Is the better fit school worth 56k more than a university???</p>
<p>Not for our family. Our kids had the LAC experience in high school and didn't want to repeat it. My junior is taking grad level classes and would be bored without that choice.</p>
<p>Look at the course selcetion at teh LAC and lay out four years. Are there enough classes to keep you totally engaged? Now look at the university choices. How does their selection of courses compare?</p>
<p>Comparing my son's LAC/small college experience with my daughter's ... I'd personally ask a lot more questions if I had to do it all over again. My son started with an LAC with about 1200 student and in hindsight it was way too small; not enough room for growth. He still very much wants to have small classes and an intimate environment; now he is at a public college with around 7500 students, where he seems to be doing fine in terms of course selection, but has complained several times to me about the campus library being inadequate. (In that way private might be better than public -- the funding for his state college just isn't what it should be).</p>
<p>My daughter is at a LAC now -- but one that is directly affiliated with and located at larger university -- so she has the small size of Barnard with the full resources of Columbia. (No library complaints from her.) She also considered NYU-Gallatin (anothers smaller school within a huge university) -- and I would think that the consortium colleges, such as the Claremont colleges or Amherst/U Mass / Smith/ Hampshire /Mt. Holyoke also would offer a similar combination of small college + much greater resources and social and academic opportunities. </p>
<p>If it had come to a choice of a stand-alone LAC vs. state U. (UC Campus) for my daughter.... I would have been very hesitant. Yes, there are tremendous advantages of the small classes, close advising, good relations with faculty..... but it can be a confining environment, especially as the student grows and their interests and goals expand over 4 years. So I would look carefully at size of faculty, typical course offerings each semester, size of library, available resources on campus -- even the number of on-campus eating options. (A school with only one main dining hall and a cafe or snack bar gets very tiresome rather fast). </p>
<p>One more thing: the social fit at my d's college has not been good, and she does not feel close to most of the other students there. But she will stay there and is having a good time overall, because she is in a city and she has made great friends at other campuses. Partly this may be a function of the fact that Barnard is a women's college -- most of her friends are male, and maybe she just is not into the whole sisterhood thing. </p>
<p>In any case, you labeled the LAC as the "better fit" in your question -- my point is that it's like buying a new winter coat for an 8-year-old. You can buy the coat that fits now, or you can buy a size or two up that the kid will grow into -- if you knew that the coat had to last for 4 years, you'd buy the bigger size. It's a little harder to outgrow a big state university.</p>
<p>none, bcos I'm not a big fan of LACs, nor are my kids.</p>
<p>calmom: no fair calling Barnard a lac since its joined at the hip with a large Uni. That's like calling the College of Natural Resources at Cal a LAC. :D</p>
<p>I guess I'm confused by the question. What LAC and what university? LACs don't always cost more than a university. It's just hard to discuss what feels like sort of a random comparison. Maybe you could get more specific - including why this school is a "better fit?"</p>
<p>PS All the families on CC are "above average." It's like Lake Wobegon. ;)</p>
<p>too true weenie. probably why the women are all strong. (g)
Unless we get some suprises I may have close to even prices for LAC and BigStateU, so I should be fretting even more by mid-week as I try to help DD figure it all out.
I *think I would not pay more than a few thousand a year more for an LAC and then it would have to be a clearly better fit and/or better in the major.
Unless it was Princeton. (where not a single one of my children applied)
What can I say-that was the One and Only. Magical beautiful place to a 6 yr old.
they don't allow old folks to enroll. sigh.</p>
<p>I wanted to add a bit. In our situation - tapped out, paying loans for kid1 and kid2, medical stuff, no savings, paying a few thousand more per year is a major expense.
hmmmm, here's the stone, here's the tools...where is the "getting blood out" manual?</p>
<p>I hear ya' OldinJersey!!! Here's to Good Surprises still to come!</p>
<p>Another confusing thing - is the OP talking about their state U? If so, which one? Are we comparing SUNY Albany to Amherst??? By the way, Princeton is a university, not a LAC--- just to add to the confusion. ;)</p>
<p>searching the OP's other threads, its Grinnell vs. U-Illinois vs. UMich vs. Tulane (with $$) vs...</p>
<p>"my point is that it's like buying a new winter coat for an 8-year-old. You can buy the coat that fits now, or you can buy a size or two up that the kid will grow into"</p>
<p>That's one of the best analogies I've ever heard. Granted, there are ways to stretch an LAC -- especially junior year abroad and a senior thesis -- but this is an important way that students and families should think about fit.</p>
<p>sorry I guess I wasn't very clear. My question, then, is asking..given that the LAC is a better fit for sure compared to a large university, would you (if you were middle class) be willing to pay 14k/year MORE for the LAC. </p>
<p>LAC = grinnell
large univ = illinois-urbana</p>
<p>There is no such thing as an "average" student or "average" family. The "average" (or median) family income in the U.S. is under $55k, so $14k a year wouldn't really be an option, would it?</p>
<p>As a middle class family whose child attended a LAC
We agreed to pay the EFC- given that the LAC met 100% of need.
HOwever- we also asked that our child contribute summer income- about $3,000, toward the EFC each year as well.</p>
<p>For us (with income at the 67% percentile or so), the LAC cost well less than half the state university, and offered much, much more.</p>
<p>"My question, then, is asking..given that the LAC is a better fit for sure compared to a large university, would you (if you were middle class) be willing to pay 14k/year MORE for the LAC. "</p>
<p>Do you have an extra 14k lying around for four years doing nothing? Ya fit where you have to fit sometimes. You're basically asking is the LAC worth an extra $60 a day over the other? </p>
<p>Most middle class families I come across don't have this kind of money lying around, so I think the answer, no matter how difficult it may be is the lesser of the two. And yes, I love my children deeply, but if the numbers aren't there, they aren't there. Retiring RED doesn't help my children either. 50-60k is alot of debt to take on along with other debts.</p>
<p>Our son's college decisions offer some concrete "data" to the OP question. His top three choices going in were(in order) Oberlin and Rensselaer/Case. After all the acceptances were in he was offered annual finaid totalling $3000 from Oberlin, $17,000 from Case and $25,000 from Rensselaer. Oberlin was eliminated w/o any further thought whatsoever. The decision to eliminate Case was more difficult, but not extremely so.</p>
<p>So it seems the annual amount was somewhere in the $8-10k range for Oberlin. After the offers from Case and Rensselaer, the other lesser known LAC's he applied to(think Wooster type colleges) were never in the running regardless of cost.</p>
<p>Of course his primary academic concentration going in was computer science with a bent toward artificial intelligence so even Oberlin would have been hard pressed to offer the academic program options of either Case or RPI. But his visit to Oberlin was extraordinary and if Oberlin had offered him finaid in the $15,000 area I think his final choice would have been very difficult.</p>
<p>This is not about money but about some features of LACs that can be overlooked.</p>
<p>I just talked to a prof who teaches at a top-ranked LAC. He teaches two courses, and since this is a LAC, there are no TAs. Enrolment in courses is capped at 55 (at Harvard, this would allow an instructor to hire 3 TFs). For one course, 145 students tried to sign up. This means 90 disappointed students, all the more so since the course will not be offered next year. The other course drew 50+ students. There were no disappointed students, but the prof has to handle a total of nearly 110 students on his own. This is in a discipline that is supposed to be writing-heavy, but there is no way he can grade 100+ exams, short papers, long papers on his own. I did not ask how he is handling it. But he seemed overwhelmed, especially since he is young, has a family, and does not yet have tenure.
He acknowledges that he is the victim of his own success and that other courses have far fewer students.
Obviously there are factors other than the classroom experience to consider when choosing between a LAC and a large university. But if a student were to take classes with 50 other students, it does not matter whether it was at a LAC or at a large university. And as the 90 students who did not get into the popular class can attest, there are drawbacks to the limited range of offerings and lack of TAs at a LAC. I do realize, to paraphrase another poster remarked on another thread, that the sky won't fall if they don't take that particular course. Still, it is something to consider, especially if money is involved as well.</p>
<p>With the costs of public universities going up dramatically, some LACs and private unis seem like a good deal. My D attends a private univ with an average FA package. We are currently paying about $10K more per year than our (very good) state university. Given the smaller class size, easier access to classes, better housing options and away-from-home experience, it seems like a reasonable deal. What's worrisome is just how expensive state schools have gotten to make a private education seem reasonable in comparison!</p>
<p>I'm new to all of this. What does LAC, OP, CC and EFC stand for? Is FA - Financial Aid?</p>
<p>Interesting discussion for me. Although all the cards aren't on the table yet, D's decision will <em>probably</em> come down to Miami-Ohio (for about $15k per year) vs. Furman (for about $26K per year, barring any surprises.) They are her 3rd (Furman) and 4th (Miami) choices of 6. Lots of interesting details to muddy the waters.</p>
<p>Keep the discussion going, please. Help me think through whatever we might be missing.</p>
<hr>
<p>LAC - liberal arts college
OP - original post(er)
CC - this website. Also can mean community college.
EFC - expected family contribution, according to FAFSA (federal student aid) results.
Is FA - Financial Aid? - yes</p>