I don’t understand this. In a previous post you complained about the lack of rigor in the schools including top US high schools. I think the fact that your grand D is able to handle the academics, take part in EC’s and still get a night’s sleep is wonderful. Would you prefer that the school be even more rigorous academically so that she has to stay up all night or not take part in other activities?
So…wow. Breathe. She will be fine. Really. She is not doomed to CC or a gap year unless you/she decide that’s the right thing.
She can definitely get into a 4 year school. It may not be your top pick or even hers but she is by no means sentenced to CC. I completely echo checking out the CTCL list that fits your geographic area as they may well be a better fit for her than a directional state school. Our oldest, shockingly, graduated with a UW 3.01 from HS with not ONE honors or AP class from a maybe top 1000 in the country/top 20 in the state HS and some DE credits (as in 100 level DE credits, not worth much) and didn’t test in well for both math or language for his college and yet managed to get admitted to a decent LAC and yep, graduate on time. Had he not gotten in there, there were other options for him. I can promise you had I posted his info/stats here it would have been doom and gloom and CC/technical school/gap year. Sure, he had to take extra language and math in college but he did, and graduated. On time.
I do think CC has the tendency to make parents think the B student is doomed. A 3.0 is a B. A 2.8 is B too. It is not a C. It is a B. It is average. Why is average unacceptable? I don’t for a second buy the thought that kids who just show up can get a B. Not at our school. Not remotely. That 3.0 doesn’t make her less of snowflake or say that she isn’t entirely unaverage in other areas. Are there issues? Sure. Obviously. (shocker, most normal teens have issues, CC can be devoid of normal teens at times) She’s super bright, sounds bored, and not always interested in the tedium of certain classes and turning in homework. The correlation of that action and how it impacts her grades which then impact her future are not paramount. At least not to her, right now, in a way that impacts actual change. They might be intellectually but when push comes to shove, not so much. I have one of those in S19, it is super super frustrating! I truly feel your pain. Her test scores sound like they will help compensate for some of it and frankly, I think the rigor will compensate more so than the ranking of your HS beyond what feeder schools know of your HS. Which can be a lot. For example there are 2 schools on S17’s list that I would have thought were matches or maybe even low reaches. According to Naviance they are low matches or maybe even safeties. 100% acceptance at his stats. Which are not at the middle 50%. Your GC should be able to help give some ideas there even though you don’t have Naviance.
A less rigorous schedule may or may not be the answer. Some kids, my S17 to a degree, work to the effort of the B student regardless of rigor. Extra credit isn’t always in their mindset, or at least may not be until they mature a bit. A B is good enough in their minds. They might prefer to spend their extra energy on a valuable EC. And you know what? There is NOTHING wrong with a B and I get super tired of folks saying these kids are less worthy if they get a B. The world has type A’s and type B’s. We need a mix! I care far more about the level of effort and if my kid is working their tail off and a B is the best they can do, I am good with that. If having music and sports or theater in their life means a B here and there, well I would rather see that balance than boring all A’s. It makes them a far more interesting person. If they are slacking, or more likely unorganized and forgetting to turn stuff in but acing tests, then yeah, I get crabby. That doesn’t mean they are slacker kids sitting on the couch playing video games but that maybe they are organizationally and prioritization challenged. And guess what? My system or your system may not be at all the system that speaks to any of our kids. At the end of the day it’s her path. Love her, support her, help facilitate what you can and figure out the best possible options. She has plenty even if it doesn’t seem so.
We are trying a new homework app with S19 to try and increase accountability. He is bombing the non honors classes of all things. One thing I do know. Me harping on grades and what it means for colleges is NOT what will change anything, it has been repeatedly shown to me it just makes it worse. The kid has to want it and it has to be for them, all we can do is try to provide the means and support to help them get there.
She is a sophomore. It is not all doom and gloom. My S17 got his act together end of sophomore year and matured a lot junior year. Sure, ADHD meds may have helped but it was his maturing that caused him to ask to be reevaluated in the first place. Will S19 figure it out? I hope so. Is a B in Honors/AP as good or better than an A in mainstream? Arguably. The C? That’s a tougher call. Will one or two, or gasp even more, kill her? No. Is S17 going to get into an Ivy? No. Will he get into a college? Yes. I’ll take my happy balanced B interesting, engaged, hard working, well liked and loved, thoughtful student over the stressed fearful A competitive any day. It isn’t that simple of course (you can be all those things and get all As lol) but for my B+ kid to be an super solid A…it probably would turn him into that. I don’t want that for him, it’s not the right thing. Not to mention I don’t care how much he preps or studies, he will never be a super high standardized test scorer. That is what is right for him. And we are talking about what is right for your D. Not your other D or anyone else’s kid. Only you and she can figure that out and evolve with it as she evolves.
The rank thing is horrible. We don’t rank and contrary to what most think, not all schools provide a GPA breakdown. Ours will not. No if ands or buts. There is no way to determine where my kids stand in their class. We don’t weight, we don’t rank, it is what it is. I am grateful for it even if it maybe means we can’t apply for certain scholarships. I hate what it does to kids self esteem. I know it’s a bigger thing in the south and for that I am sorry and can see where it would be stress inducing. But I agree with several others. Focus on what you/she can control. Keeping it at a 3.0 for Hope. And then go from there.
And maybe…be willing to expand the geography to hit the financial targets you want. S11’s college isn’t one you hear about here but is well regarded locally and while it was a tad more than our flagship, they did offer work study and some grant monies to keep it at that just a tad amount. For the extra “tad” it was such a better fit for him it was worth the extra money (4k ish per year) I am quite positive those are out there in each state, it may just take some digging and I don’t know the ones in the south. Personally I’d wait to think too much until you see how first semester junior year goes.
Sorry for the long response 
I admit I haven’t read the whole thread, but I think it is questionable whether colleges pay any attention to those rankings. The methodology is very odd. Our HS has both IB and AP classes. (One of only two, the last time I checked, in the state to offer IB.) The methodology takes into account only one or the other. Why? Makes no sense. Totally bizarre, IMHO. Our HS is therefore down graded in comparison to its local peers, which only have AP.
Nevertheless, a comparable number of kids get into elite schools.
Betting she is doing more than JUST turning homework in on time to make the grade at Stuy.
Same story…different day.
I can’t say what is going on at other high schools, but my Junior in an IB program is getting 4 A’s and 2 B’s this year and she is busting her butt. Turning in everything, studying, working her hardest. And playing 2 sports and working part-time. If all she did was turn in her homework she’d be pulling C’s, at best.
Agree that Adcoms care less about how a hs ranks on hs criteria and more about the quality of the students it turns out. They’ll know certain high schools, may not know an outlier. But the application and supp are going to be key, what they show about the kid’s thinking, how she challenged herself, what it adds up to.
I’d say start with CTCL, then use Fiske to find similar schools, some less competitive in admissions itself This isn’t just about stats. It’s going to be about finding the “fit and thrive” that likes what she does show them.
Totally agree she has a lot of growth coming. This summer, next academic year, then in fall of senior year.
"Agree that Adcoms care less about how a hs ranks on hs criteria and more about the quality of the students it turns out. They’ll know certain high schools, may not know an outlier. " - I agree. However, it does not hurt when the applicant is the only one in her HS class with the GPA of 4.0uw, while taking the most rigorous classes and showing tons of ECs, and not the ones of the “club” variety, but the real ones, that take many hours every week, the ones that show real commitment in following your passions.
It also isn’t the experience of many IB diploma program graduates. Often, for them, college is easier than high school – and offers lots more opportunities to sleep!
Adcoms tend to know HSs where lots of students apply and based on my limited circle of people, the HS rigor does matter. A kid with a good GPA is more likely to get into a competitive college than a kid with similar stats from a less well regarded, also middle class, HS. OTOH, a kid from a disadvantaged background with top test scores and top GPA from a disadvantaged HS (or from a magnet) is more likely to be accepted at least at need-blind schools.
…it is experiences of the pre-meds in college. No matter how one was busy in HS, the pre-meds who have to maintain college GPA close to 4.0., participate in various ECs and most of whom are working while at college (as most of college students), and being the bunch with wide range of interests, having minors (no slack there, general college GPA still needs to be close to 4.0), they are much busier than their very busy HS life. In addition, they have to take the MCAT after junior year with preparation taking few hours / day for many weeks, and go to med. school interview during senior year. Frankly, my D. had to drop her semester hours from 18-19 in the first 2 years to 16-17 in the last 2 year to accommodate the MCAT and interviews. There was simply no way around it.
Overall though, no matter what is your major and if you were straight A at Stuy of one of the best private in your state or with IB diploma, the academic level at college, just regular in-state low ranked college, not Elite, is higher and a great adjustment will be required from everybody or they face to be derailed from their intended track. This derailing happens a lot and HS valedictorians from the rigorous private HSs are not excluded from being simply smashed if they do not adjust.
“A kid with a good GPA is more likely to get into a competitive college than a kid with similar stats from a less well regarded, also middle class, HS.”
It’s just so unfair. The rigor of a high school is not related to anything the kid had any control over. He or she couldn’t help being born into a family that could only afford to live in XYZ socioeconomic area. And before people start blathering on about private high schools - the vast majority of adults in this country don’t have private high schools on their radar screen (except perhaps for religiously-based), their kids go wherever the local public school is and that’s the end of the subject.
OP’s D isn’t premed. Or 4.0. In fact, she’s still finding herself. There will be choices. And there is still time to find them.
Soph year is a tough time for many kids, they’re just figuring out who they are and starting to feel pressure about making “future” decisions.
Listen and guide.
Since you mentioned Florida, have you looked at Rollins for your D? My neighbor’s D sounds very similar to your own D and she graduated a few years ago from Rollins - it’s a great school, in a beautiful area and she loved her time there. Take a look at their Common Data Set for 2015/16. I think close to 45% of the freshman class had GPA’s of 3.2 or lower and about 20% had just under a 3.0.
Neighbor’s D has done extremely well - currently living in NYC with a great job in public relations!
I would imagine that test scores (ACT/SAT/AP) help weigh in decisions when trying to compare students from different schools.
Its not necessarily fair and is probably not universal. However, there is a difference between a HS with relatively low expectations and workload and one that requires much more of students in honors or AP classes to earn good grades. A kid with top test scores, especially SAT subject tests, may well overcome that bias from a weaker HS. Wealthier schools also tend to have a lower counselor to student ratio and more money to support counselors working with Adcoms. Not to mention that kid in wealthier districts tend to have more access to tutors and other support in achieving their higher grades.
It is also unfair, but true, that many prep schools have a more direct pipeline to super elite admissions than virtually all public schools.
This varies depending on the institution offering the IB. I’ve read/known some undergrad classmates from IB diploma programs in which the rigor/workload was such their levels of sleep were comparable to the experience of the most hardcore Stuy classmates who routinely stayed up till 3-4 am for most/all their HS years. As a slacker, I got more sleep than they did by turning in at 1-2 am.
With the exception of HS classmates who did pre-med at schools well-known for their heavy workloads among elite colleges such as Swat, UChicago, Cornell, MIT, etc…the vast majority of the ones I knew who were pre-med…including those at HYPS and peers found they had more free time for ECs, hanging out, and sleep while being able to maintain high GPAs necessary to gain admission to med school.
To be fair, most could relate to a friend who is a fellow at one of the top Boston area hospitals specializing in Cardiology.
He did pre-med at H, attended HMS, and while at H and HMS found he had plenty of free time despite the rigorous academic workload as a pre-med at H college and moreso…at HMS. In fact, while at HMS he had so much free time after his medical studies he ended up taking several art classes at the nearby Mass College of Art in his words “for fun” and to fill in the free time he had during med school.
@HarvestMoon1 yep, Rollins is one of my current favorites for her-I think she’d enjoy it. She finished the year with C’s in AP Comp Sci and AP World, B’s in everything else. The grades aren’t finalized yet on the transcripts so I can’t see whether she moved up in the class rank, but I am not going to worry so much about class rank and concentrate more on helping her build a good GPA so she can maintain eligibility for the in-state scholarships.
She is glad to be on summer break-sophomore year was a bear for her and for her sister who is a junior (who did very well but is ready to be done with all the college stuff, even though it’s just beginning).
@MotherofDragons - my kid had a not so great sophomore year. He is now finishing up junior year with all regular courses and one AP. We did “GPA triage” during junior year after noting that the honors courses in his sophomore year at his HS were perhaps over his head. Also focused on standardized test prep.
Did your daughter take the PSAT as a sophomore? That may give a better indication as to how she compares with the population at large. (I didn’t get a chance to read all the posts- sorry if this was already covered.)
@momprof94 yep, she did, I had mentioned it earlier in the thread but I can’t remember where She’s good at taking tests.
And Winter Park is a very nice town. I could spend 4 years there!