<p>I believe Cal Tech and MIT are Div III schools. Sports divisions don’t have any connection to academic prowess. </p>
<p>It is amazing to me how many people view college as a need, not a want. I think it is a great idea for most people and I encourage my own children to go to college and do well. I also know a lot of very successful people who either never attended or never graduated from college. </p>
<p>For those who think college is a right of passage and not a path to gainful employment…it must be nice to be so stinking rich that you can squander resources for kids to have 4 years of partying and enlightenment with no expectation that it will produce any tangible ROI. I would argue the dollars you spend giving your children 4 years of fun and frivolity would be better spent on a scholarship for a kid who needs that education to better himself and his family in a tangible way. </p>
<p>I guess having grown up in poor, under-educated family myself I find this approach to higher education to be abhorrent. My family could to little to help us get an education, but they taught us to be self-reliant and to put family first. 3 of 4 of us got degrees. 2 of those are advanced degrees. One went the military route, one worked through school and one took the longer route but all finished with little or no debt. None of us would dream of not supporting our parents in their old age. We honor them for giving us the tools to accomplish our educational goals through hard work and self-determination. That was a much bigger gift to me and my siblings than had they the resources to pay for our college outright. I did not mean to imply that everyone who pays for their kids school will end up with ungrateful or maladjusted kids. But I think those who do it themselves, as a whole, are more capable individuals than peers (again, as a whole) who are products of parental largess. </p>
<p>Maybe that means college is not done at 21 or 22. Maybe it means a stint in the military or taking courses part-time as you work a job. Many companies pay for tuition for employees and the path may be longer, but it can be done. </p>
<p>I think giving the kids a solid undergrad education is the best “inheritance” we can give them. I chose not to pay for the most expensive (full-pay, 62K+) college, because I think saving for retirement is also important, but both of my kids are going to fine schools. One will graduate with minimal debt, and the other with no debt. I also think experiences as a family are very important, so we continue to take pretty nice vacations together. One could argue that I could have used the vacation money to pay for the most expensive school, but I chose not to. My choice. </p>
<p>The price tag for us was not that high (but still maybe close to 50-55k?) because it was many years ago. We were full-pay for two years. I think our 529 account was wiped out in the first two years.</p>
<p>Do not intend to turn this into another wedding thread but this is also about parents’ financial responsibility or sacrifice for their child: How much responsibility do parents have for helping pay for S/D’s marriage when the young couple have not earned much money yet?</p>
<p>Ideally, they should earn and be responsible for a part of expenses of their marriage. But many young people today could spend a very long time before they establish their career. Under some scenario, it is quite possible that they have not made much (or even any) money at the time they are ready for marriage.</p>
<p>@Torveaux The idea isn’t for parents to live outside their means/feel pressured to provide their kids loads of cash. It’s about helping out when you can. The topic’s supposed to be college ed, but in my last response I was thinking about everything in general. Like, if your kid’s struggling to pay his rent, can barely bring food to the table, etc. When I have my own kids, if I can afford to gift them a million dollars (without affecting things such as retirement, of course @1214mom), sure. However, if all I can give them is $100,000, I’ll give them that. If all I have is $5000, I’ll give them that. If all I have is $30, I’ll give them that. And if all I have is 2 cents in the bank, I’d give them those 2 cents. </p>
<p>“We honor them for giving us the tools to accomplish our educational goals through hard work and self-determination.”</p>
<p>Yup. Where I come from, kids are expected to support their parents in old age. Sometimes the situations are reversed, though, & the kids are the ones in need. I guess it all comes down to family helping family out (no matter the roles) as long as they can afford it. </p>
<p>And if one can’t afford anything at all, emotional support suffices.</p>
<p>Just my opinion, though. To each their own. :)</p>
<p>But how much should a wedding cost? Weddings range from obviously lavish to obviously frugal, but the enjoyment one gets as a guest does not have too much correlation to the lavishness. A wedding should not force the newlyweds to start married life in a debt hole. Of course, if the parents want the wedding to include something expensive that the bride and groom would not otherwise choose, they should put their money where their mouth is.</p>
<p>I think conditioning paying for college on the kid majoring in XYZ is a bad idea. Obviously as their parent you’re going to give your advice on what majors you think are most practical, but if your kid really hates math and science and isn’t as good in those subjects as in writing-intensive subjects, what good does it do to push them into something they will never want to work in? </p>
<p>In the end, our kids are going to have to make their own way. No major or field of study is a guaranteed job generator. But, if our kids are smart and hardworking, odds are they will be successful in one way or another. I think the best thing we can do for them is make sure they start out with minimal debt. If that means refusing to co-sign for huge loans that we as parents can’t afford to pay and that they as new grads will find to be crushing, then okay. Each parent has to figure out their own comfort level with what they’re willing to pay. But if you say “I can afford to pay the COA at your school of choice, but I will only pay it if you major in something I approve of,” I think that’s going to create resentment in your kid. </p>
<p>There is no such thing as responsibilty, there is a desire or no desire. On the other hand, if kid is raised to always do the best, then, they should be smart enough to understand that where they attend is not as important as what they actually do at college. Such a top caliber HS student can find several places that offer him/her great amount in Merit awards, even full tuition and more. These kids are usually up to going to some kind of Grad. School and may negotiate with parents paying for Grad. School instead of college. And again, there is no responsibilty here, there is either desire or lack of it to pay. And either one is OK. nobody should judge anybody else, it is each familly businees and nobody else. </p>
<p>There’s nothing stopping them from getting married. We eloped. Cost to our parents: ZERO. </p>
<p>We attended many of our contemporary friends’/family’s lavish weddings. Nearly every couple is now divorced, and some are even on their third marriage. But we had a really fun time at their posh wedding bashes!</p>
<p>If you are ready to get married, you should be ready to pay for your own wedding.
Anything parents give should be considered a gift, not an obligation.</p>
In some cases, the issue is that the parents themselves try to “do the best”. They may sometimes try too hard though even when it may not be justified to do so. Have you ever noticed that some parents would even buy the best toys, shoes or backpack, etc., for their child?</p>
<p>When we gave a bucket of BRIO train set several years ago to one of our close friends who has a preschooler. When she later found out how expensive these wooden toys are, she used the word “a pot of gold” to describe that kind of toy. Looking back, it is apparent to us that it was really not a rational move for us to spend money on that when DS was very young - he even did not play much on that train set. (Likely two sets.) It was a much worse “investment” for our child than the education expenses like tuitions.</p>
<p>The same could apply to the choice of schools for the child. Some even insists that there is a great value to send their child to a private school when their child is in the middle or high school.</p>
<p>BTW, @MiamiDAP, If you or your close relative (the one who live in NYC) never send the kids to any private school at any education level (elementary/middle/high/college/professional school), especially when can relatively easily afford it, I will truly believe that you or they truly believe where the offsprings attend do not matter (to the parents.)</p>
<p>Especially, at the professional school level, I think you are fully aware that there are no lack of CCers who firmly believe that it does not matter whether it is a public school or a private school and it is what they do at their school that matters. But the fact is that both of us send our kids to private ones. You may justify it by the fact that you have saved the money at the UG level and I can justify it by the fact that our kid goes to one that has a limited form of need-based FA policy. – I guess that, in the end, what you have paid totally for UG and grad school is likely about the same as mine (but I think both mom2cg and GAmom likely do pay much less than us totally.) But to those parents who send their child to a public school all the way, they may argue: Why do we save more money by sending our kid to a public professional school because it is what they do at the school, public or private, that matters. So, in a sense, both you and we may have done what many parents occasionally do, i.e., we may do something arguably financially irrational because we may have a little too much desire to give our child the “best” or a potential “edge” no matter how small the edge may be - we may not do this if it is not our own child that is involved.</p>
<p>It is truly each family’s decision, just as you said.</p>
<p>"if kid is raised to always do the best, then, they should be smart enough to understand that where they attend is not as important as what they actually do at college.
… Have you ever noticed that some parents would even buy the best toys, shoes or backpack, etc., for their child?</p>
<p>-This is by far is NOT what I meant at all. My own D. had toys and clothes from garage sales until about 9 y o. Why? Well, we were paying her brother’s college tuition and then just got used to cheap stuff. However, when I mentioned “raised to always do the best” I had in mind the fact that when D. was 5 y o I told her to always do her homework, that her school is her first priority and if she follow it, she will always get the best grade (not sure if she knew about A’s when she was 5 y o). Well, she absorb that one for the rest of her life and I know why. Because, when she got her first assignment, she did not know that it is the most important thing in her life and was ready to go to her sport practice which she absolutely loved with all the social activities. I said that we cannot go until she was done with her homework. Boy, it worked perfectly all thru graduating from college. I have notices many posts here that deal with parents frustrations about kids’ work habits. Well, do not wait until HS, tell them when they are 5 and just got their first 5 min. homework. This 5 min. homework might be the most important event in the future of the kid, it may make all the difference if a proper step is taking by the parent. It is not a small edge by no means, it is a pillar on which evertyhing else will be built.
Well, D. comleted her 5 min. assignment and she went happily to her practice, but she realized that she has to earn this privilege.
Well, after raising kid in a scond hand clothes, we are footing her Medical School tuition. This is our desire, not obligation, primarily for appreciation of her hard work and choosing her UG smartly where she was offered a full tuition Merit. And clothewise, D. lovesand shops at the very expensive stores out there. </p>
<p>In terms of play value and fostering creative thinking skills, BRIO might be one of the better educational investments we ever made at our house, and it was way cheaper than tuition. We’ve got two milk crates full of the stuff in the basement – cleaned up and waiting a few more years for grandkids. </p>
<p>I agree that establishing good attitude toward learning at a young age is important. If we have two kids, more likely than not, both of them will go to a state school. We likely could not afford that kind of ECs if we had two kids.</p>
<p>We bought a lot of blocks from BRIO. It is a better hit than the train set just because we bought much more BRIO blocks than the train set because the latter is more expensive. We also had a lot of Lego pieces. It was a hit too. When DS was a preschooler, we read a lot of education related book for young children. I think I learned about what may likely be “good toys” from that source. He spent a lot of his young years playing with toys - to a certain extent, he even did not do a lot on the so-called 3R before middle school.</p>
<p>Sure, pushing a kid in to an area where they have no aptitude or interest is a bad idea, but say that you have a kid who likes to write. Why is it so bad to direct them in to communications or advertising than journalism or comp lit?</p>
<p>It depends on what you mean by “direct.” I think you were the poster who said they wouldn’t pay for college unless their kid chose one of a particular list of majors? That draconian level of control over your kid’s college choices is what I think will create resentment in your kid.</p>
<p>There’s not a lot of difference between a journalism major and a communications major – but for that exact reason, you shouldn’t make a big deal over whether your kid chooses one or the other. So, “direct” them all you like, if that means giving them your advice but then letting them make their own decisions in the end.</p>