How realistic are full scholarships?

College Majors Music Major
21

<br>

<br>

<p>The SUNY system has several fabulous music schools. I think many students would be proud to be accepted to these programs, as well your daughter will be. Potsdam, Stony Brook, and Purchase all have great programs. Those are the ones I am familiar with. I know many out of staters who would be very happy to get acceptances to these very fine programs. </p>

<br>

<br>

<p>I feel as though this comment is directed at me. I am sorry if I made you feel this way. My comment was NOT a comment about your daughter’s accomplishments. I am sorry that my post was misinterpreted in this way. I never meant to offend you (or anyone else), and certainly not your daughter.</p>

22

<br>

<br>

<p>I’m attending a SUNY school in the fall, and don’t see anything wrong with that, so I would hope others would not either. Yes, it is hard to turn down other schools with big names, but for the money you really can’t do better.</p>

23

<p>Momof3- thumper1 wrote:</p>

<p><she might=“” have=“” been=“” a=“” strong=“” flute=“” player=“” that=“” year=“” despite=“” not=“” having=“” taken=“” private=“” lessons.=“” being=“” in=“” all=“” state=“” is=“” particularly=“” indicative=“” of=“” relative=“” talent.=“”></she></p>

<p>I do not see that as being offensive or an affront. The data you provided supports that assumption.</p>

<p>If there are 350 flutes in the applicant pool and there are 35 slots, and the top 50 kids scored 100, it does not mean the 15 that didn’t make it are not talented. It does not mean that the next 50 with scores of 98 are less talented.</p>

<p>It does not mean the kid who sat principal last year and got a 98 this year because she had a bad day is not talented.</p>

<p>That is exactly how I read thumper’s comment to mean. That’s what I tried to explain (in hindsight vey poorly) by interjecting my comments and observations.</p>

<p>The fact that your daughter is within the top third of a large applicant pool on a competitive instrument in a state with many high level educational opportunities without the benefit of individualized instruction is a testament to her musicianship. May her success continue.</p>

<p>And should she attend a Suny- Stony Brook, Purchase, Potsdam or Fredonia, she will recieve a top notch music education. If Crane, she’ll get one of the top music ed programs in the country.</p>

24

<p>I took thumper’s message the same way that violadad did. I don’t think it was intended as a slight or a put down. Being in All State is one data point. It takes a lot more data points to tell whether one student is a better musician than another and even with more data points the judgment may still be highly subjective.</p>

<p>I think the statement “Being in All State is not particularly indicative of relative talent” could have been more sensitively expressed because the listener may come away thinking that “Being in All State is particularly indicative of no relative talent” was meant. While I have run across a small number of students and parents who would support both of those statements, I do not think thumper is one of them. There are some extremely talented youngsters out there for whom a state level honors ensemble is irrelevant because they already have much bigger fish to fry. They have no business putting down someone else who finds value in the All State experience.</p>

25

<p>I don’t know what I meant by “And my D will probably attend a SUNY school”. I do not think the SUNY schools lack anything at all. I was merely pointing out I guess that she is not conservatory material. She will audition at Eastman but only as a lark to see what happens.<br>
It is a shame that the CT method of All State auditions is in a way flawed. However, when criticizing any method of judging and saying that so and so could have had a good day or a bad day well that could be said of any college or professional audition process. Both my D’s have spent considerable amounts of time in the competition dance world and I will say what I have always told them “the end result is someone else’s opinion and that is all it is”. </p>

<p>I stand firm on my opinion of NYSSMA All State bc I know how much it meant to my D and many others who attended and how much it could mean to those in her school (very few in our very sports oriented school dist) who knew what it meant and who strive themselves to make it. In an school dist where there are no band competitions to attend, no orchestra, and the nearest musical opportunities are at least 1.5 hours away (and yes, my DH and I work many many hours of OT a week to provide the opportunities we can to our 3 children) NYSSMA scores are important to these kids. It is hard to hear someone else insinuate that maybe my kid had a lucky day or that in the grand scheme of things it won’t even matter to her college apps. Well, if presented with a “good” audition day the judging panel will have to value her All State and NYSSMA scores to some extent (consistent w/in 2 points for the past 4 years) because there will not be much else to look at. </p>

<p>My D will be proud to go to a SUNY school. Fredonia is actually one of her top choices at this point with Crane ranking a little lower only bc SO many of her classmates go to Potsdam and Clarkson. And in the case her less than stellar resume cannot get her into any music school she always has a second choice degree of Spanish Ed to fall back on.</p>

26

<p>If you’re considering schools outside of NY state, you might want to look into Duquesne in Pittsburgh. They have an outstanding music program including music education, performance, technology, and therapy…and their applied teachers are mostly musicians with the Pittsburgh Symphony. They give very good merit aid, and will also give both music merit aid, as well as college scholarship monies to their music school students. And they have a priority audition date the Friday before Thanksgiving and the students know the result WITH their aid before the Christmas holiday (non-binding acceptance too…which is great). Pittsburgh has a great airport with good accessibility. With their aid, the cost of attendance could be lower than the cost of attendance at one of the in-state schools. My guess is that they would welcome a talented horn player.</p>

27

<p>Sometimes I express myself very poorly! I re-read my post about All State, and where I meant to convey that SOME states are less competitive, I left out the word ‘some’ and ended up implying that all states are less competitive than Georgia. What I meant was that every state is different, therefore unless the college is specifically familiar with that state’s All State, it may or may not mean as much to the school. (Obviously SUNY and other NY schools are going to know exactly what NY All State means!) And as BassDad followed up with, every instrument is different. Sorry for my poor wording.</p>

<p>My D is one of those majoring in music who has very little on her resume. All State twice - 8th and 12th grades. (Didn’t live here for other years.) She has never attended a summer music program, because her high school was year round (and overseas.) She has had regular lessons, recitals, and a gig here and there. But that’s about it.</p>

<p>Momof3Stars, your D sounds very talented for the opportunities she’s been given. I know you live far from teachers, etc, so she’s had to do a lot on her own. I’m sure it’s anxiety-producing. (I’m sensing some angst even by your listing your “back up plan.”) Your D (and my S) have the advantage of playing an instrument that fewer play well - there are lots of schools that will welcome a strong player! My S had a classmate a few years ahead of him who went to a smaller state school in Georgia that PAID HER to attend. Not only the full tuition, room and board scholarship, but EXTRA, because they needed horn players. She was good, but not conservatory quality. I don’t know if she went for Music Ed or performance. - or something else entirely?</p>

<p>I hope your D will have a chance to get some lessons or something if only to give you someone to share the burden! There have been lots of times I’ve needed to call S’s teacher and whine, just to get some reassurance or knowledgeable opinions. I can’t imagine doing it alone.</p>

<p>The other thing you might find valuable is to set up some lessons with teachers as you visit the colleges. Their feedback will help you sense if you’re heading the right direction in terms of schools, and will get your D some lessons at the same time!</p>

28

<p>Binx, ANGST is not even close to how I feel right now. I guess I am even more touchy than usual bc D’s band director (her biggest cheerleader, mentor, and second dad) has been “forced” to retire this year. He wants to stay but apparently the school board was putting some pressure on him to retire due to his salary being too high. He may be back as a long term sub but that is sketchy so now we are facing her senior year with a possible new teacher at school who may or may not specialize in brass as he does and who may or may not even care what she wants to do with her life. Stressful? Yes. D is beside herself and won’t even discuss until she knows for sure, meaning first day of school for sure. He will be and is in her life now (he directs our little professional community band in the summers. Lots of good talent there of all ages, mostly adults with collegiate music backgrounds at good schools) and is currently working on her letters of rec. </p>

<p>As for private teachers, we had a lesson last week with one but not sure. I don’t think her and D “clicked”. We had found a teacher about 1.5 hours away (this one is a closer 1 hour) last year and loved her and I am thinking of sending her back to that one. Their personalities seemed more compatible. Also, we do have a Crane graduate who is in the above community band with D and has offered to give D lessons as well and she lives in our town. She has been “out” of the teaching profession for a few years having left to raise her children. I don’t know how I feel about this yet. It certainly would be more convenient but I have to wonder why our BD hadn’t recommended her all along since she was a student of his as well. He has been looking for someone local for D for a few years and has always said that there is no one nearby that is at her level. </p>

<p>So here we sit. If I could just get D to learn to drive and get her license things would be easier!!! Are all muscians crazy drivers or is it just her?</p>

29

<p>Just a thought…since the band director is a brass specialist, could he perhaps be the coach for your daughter? It sounds like they have a wonderful relationship and he knows her playing well. Maybe he could at least do some coaching with her on her audition repertoire. It IS stressful to have a change in ensemble directors. I hope the district is not successful in forcing this teacher to leave for financial reasons only. Sorry, but to me, that sounds like an age discrimination issue at the very least. Re: driving…well…my observation is that my musician kid had his mind on things other than his driving (thus the nicks and dings in his VERY used car). However he actually was motivated to drive because he didn’t wanted to “gig around” and I simply could not devote my life to being his driver!!</p>

30

<p>My D just got her driver’s license last Friday — two weeks after turning 18. Letting a teenager drive in Atlanta is scary. I didn’t let my boys drive into town for a couple years after getting their licenses, which meant I still drove in to youth symphony, lessons, etc.</p>

<p>Thumper has a great idea about the retiring band director. And, thinking happy thoughts: perhaps the new director will have other contacts. At the very least, your D will have another person to possibly approach for additional rec letters! Meanwhile, I would ask the band director outright about this lady who is offering to teach. Perhaps he didn’t mention her because she had let it be known she was taking time off.</p>

<p>My middle school band director changed - we loved the retiring one, and gave the new one - a young lady, first time teacher - a very hard time. Eventually, she won us over, but she told us later that she spent the first few months in tears every day after school. I still feel guilty.</p>

<p>And the community orchestra is a nice thing to have on the resume, by the way.</p>

31

<p>I couldn’t begin to imagine preparing for music school (performance or music ed) auditions without the help of a trusted teacher. I second thumper’s suggestion of hiring last year’s band director as a private teacher if the school forces him out. It is possible and in many cases helpful to change teachers before junior year of high school. Doing so in the home stretch just before auditions is not the best idea, but having no teacher at all at this critical point is worst of all. I would suggest exploring the possibilities as soon as possible and not waiting for school to start.</p>

<p>Regarding the distance from home to a qualified teacher, we were able to find one about two hours away who was willing to do 2-hour lessons every other week. That made the drive bearable. I even started to look forward to the trips as an opportunity for lots of one-on-one time with daughter before she left the nest.</p>

32

<p>**“It is possible and in many cases helpful to change teachers before junior year of high school.” <a href=“BassDad%20quote”>/B</a></p>

<p>I completely agree with BassDad. We did just this very thing, switching teachers (cello), this summer for our S. who will be a junior this year. It was the best decision we ever made. Our S. has already begun to work so much harder and advance in just a short time this summer. He’s fired up. However, it did take a lot of work searching for a new teacher, weighing over the pros and cons, the cost, the driving distance, etc. It has been stressful.</p>

<p>This new teacher is about 1 hour’s drive away in very heavy traffic and passing thru some unsavory areas (a driveby shooting and killing just 2 weeks ago). The cost is double what we were paying. And like you, I’m working overtime to make ends meet. But it seems worth it for now. </p>

<p>My S. is 16 and has his driver’s license but the distance and the sketchy areas make it prohibitive for him to drive himself, at least in my eyes, not his. So, I drive him there twice weekly for 1-hour lessons - plus 2 hr round trip travel time. And like BassDad said, we have great conversations & listen to music where otherwise, we wouldn’t take the time in our chaotic schedules. It is exhausting for me but I end up falling into bed knowing that it’s only temporary. </p>

<p>I wish you luck in finding a new teacher. Everyone here has given you wonderful ideas. This is where I found the help (and courage) to switch teachers. At least you know on this board, you’ll have others who share your exact same concerns and situations.</p>

33

<p>Momof3 wrote: <it is=“” a=“” shame=“” that=“” the=“” ct=“” method=“” of=“” all=“” state=“” auditions=“” in=“” way=“” flawed.=“”></it></p>

<p>In comparing the CT system against the NY system, my opinion is that it is indeed flawed, far more than I had ever imagined. While I cannot access the written procedures for CT for side by side with what you’ve detailed, the NY guidelines are far more structured than those my son has described for CT adjudications.</p>

<p><however, when=“” criticizing=“” any=“” method=“” of=“” judging=“” and=“” saying=“” that=“” so=“” could=“” have=“” had=“” a=“” good=“” day=“” or=“” bad=“” well=“” be=“” said=“” college=“” professional=“” audition=“” process.=“”></however,></p>

<p>I thought I’ve said already, repeatedly, across many posts. To paraphrase my son’s comment, you can roll the dice, but you can’t control how they land.</p>

34

<p>My vocalist DD went through the CT process for the first time this year. As a lay person, I would say that the judging criteria – and point allocation system – is redundant, vague and terribly arbitrary. Her HS chorus teacher is on the board? ruling authority? for our region, and he said he is making it one of his goals to get the pointing system more structured.</p>

35

<p>Someone posted above that it’s easy to get into SUNY schools, I’ll second that. You say you want to get another bachelors but you could easily do grad school at SUNY University at Buffalo. We’re expanding so we have full scholarships, assistantships, fellowships, the whole works, and it doesn’t matter if you’re international or not.</p>

<p>You should check out the school at <a href=“http://www.music.buffalo.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://www.music.buffalo.edu</a>. We have a FANTASTIC composition program. Philip Glass was just here, David Felder is the head of the comp. department, also really great. I’m a Theory PhD student here myself and I really love it, and the comp. students are all fantastic. Classes are small and engaging, campus isn’t overwhelming, and we have LOADS of concerts of all styles. School affiliated concerts are listed at <a href=“http://slee.buffalo.edu%5B/url%5D”>http://slee.buffalo.edu</a>. If you have any questions about the school you can email me at sbailey4 at buffalo.edu.</p>

<p>Good luck no matter where you go!</p>

36

<p>I’m just gonna step on a soap box for a bit.</p>

<p>I’m pretty much a newbie here by date (Dec '06). At the point we started this journey back in '01, I knew less than a lot of first time posters.</p>

<p>I’ve sinced lived through the 5 year undergrad experience of putting my son through a performance/ed major, and am now on the sidelines and a sounding board for his grad school selection process.</p>

<p>I’ve used some personal experiences to illustrate points throughout his journey as an undergrad and now as an emerging professional. Hopefully it helps others. </p>

<p>There are basically 2 types of posters on this forum… those wishing to learn about the process, and those willing to offer what they know or have experienced.</p>

<p>No one here is an expert, and if I err in that point, by all means correct me. </p>

<p>There are extremely knowledgeable contributors (BassDad, binx,Imperial Zeppelin, shennie, thumper1 immediately come to mind. I apologize to the many more I have omittted) who willingly offer excellent suggestions and insights to others in a highly competitive field.</p>

<p>It is important to remember that what is offered here is advice and opinion.</p>

<p>It may not work for you. Use what makes sense. </p>

<p>I have yet to see a deliberate attempt to provide misleading or inaccurate info to a poster. I have yet to see a program denigrated. I have yet to see a poster’s talent or potential questioned.</p>

<p>I have seen potentially unclear or mis-stated info quickly revised or corrected, often by multiple posters.</p>

<p>That’s the beauty of this board. It works. </p>

<p>Because those that are here truly care. </p>

<p>Case in point. See post #35 above adding new info to the original topic of this thread</p>

<p>It’s that simple.</p>

<p>And if you have to, use the ignore button. </p>

<p>End of rant.</p>

<p>Now back to originally titled thread.</p>

37

<p>What I posted was an honest suggestion. I’ve been through 8 years of music school now, and I honestly think that if the original poster has a bachelors already he may have potential as a grad student. At ANY school. And it would be easier for him to be accepted and find funding for a masters. It seems highly unlikely he’d find funding for a 2nd bachelors in comp. in the states.</p>

38

<p>UB-
Welcome.</p>

<p>Please don’t assume that my post #36 was directed at you. It wasn’t.</p>

<p>In fact, I reference your post within the body copy of my post as a POSITIVE example of how information flows on the board.</p>

39

<p>Woops, I misunderstood :frowning: Sorry! I see now what you were saying.</p>

<p>Thanks for the welcome as well. :D</p>

<p>I hope slidemasterx comes back and checks out all this info at least…</p>

40

<p>Thanks for all your replies and sorry for not checking back sooner.</p>

<p>About studying in Belgium, I lived in the Philippines my whole life and so I don’t know how to speak Flemish or French. Also, the English speaking schools in Holland only allow 8 hours a week of part time work so I will be having a hard time with living expenses.</p>

<p>I have decided to proceed to take masters. If I go back and study undergrad again, it would take too long. I was planning to do jazz composition for a Masters degree but schools usually require a performance audition for that. I have an embouchure problem that’s hindering me from playing properly.</p>

<p>I think that if I do take Masters in classical composition, I’m not cut out for it. As I said in my first post, the school where I went to had problems with facilities and the way that some classes were taught. I do read a lot of stuff so I was able to make up for it.</p>

<p>I was thinking taking up Masters in Music Technology. I noticed that some schools with music tech include film scoring and jazz composition in their courses and that’s exactly what I like. I’m having a hard time finding schools that offer a Masters in Music Tech. Any suggestions?</p>

<p>Also would a graduate studies offer a bigger chance of getting a scholarship? Thanks</p>