How rigid are the "department lines" once you're in college

College Majors Music Major
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<p>My D is a rising sophomore. She's interested in pursuing a career track that will include vocal performance. Right now that could go in any number of directions -- music theater, jazz studies, classical/opera ...
We also hope for her to get, or at least get most of her coursework done for, a music ed degree while she's in college. We understand that that would mean an extra year or two. D is okay with that, as well. </p>

<p>I am hoping in the next few years that D can zero in on one area, as I assume that is the preferred thing to do. Right now she loves Musical Theater, but acknowledges that her voice and body type does not fit the mold for the direction MT seems to be going. What she likes is being able to lose herself in a character onstage. I have explained that that is possible as a solo vocalist, as well, and we intend to get her to performances where she can see that. </p>

<p>But in case her talent and heart could continue to go in any number of directions -- How rigid are music departments at the various colleges when a student applies knowing they want to be a vocal student, but can't quite decide which genre they want to specialize in? How rigid do departments tend to be if, say, a Jazz studies major wants to participate in on-campus MT productions?</p>

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<p>Every music school and/or music department differs. As do the teachers.
My D's teacher is very rigid as to what she will allow my D to audition for. A lot of her guidance has to do with the changes occurring in any young students fach.
(and yes---in college they are still considered "young voices")</p>

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<p>Well....at some schools she will have to make her choice when she initially auditions for their programs. For example, I know a young lady at the Hartt School. She could only audition for ONE program...either vocal performance OR musical theater. She chose vocal performance, and if she wants to change, she has to auditin for musical theater and be accepted. However, I'm not saying this is the same at all schools. You would need to check at each school your child was interested in applying to. Remember that for vocal performance, the main criteria will be the singing. For musical theater, you have to sing, dance AND act...and do them all at your audition.</p>

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<p>Not sure where you are from, or where you are looking at schools, but James Madison University in VA has a BM in Music Theatre in the School of Music and a BA in Musical Theatre in the School of Theatre and Dance. Students in both degree programs take a similar core in terms of the musical theatre classes (they are in these classes together). Students in both degree programs also both audition for, and are cast in the musicals and (sometimes) operas. There are also students who are Vocal Performance or Music Education who audition for and are cast in musicals and opera, and take many of the musical theatre classes. The students in the Musical Theatre program in the School of Theatre and Dance take their music classes in the School of Music. </p>

<p>Lots of opportunities, and a pretty open exchange.</p>

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<p>Something else to take into consideration is the undergrad voice talent pool vs. the grad student mature voice talent pool. If your d's happiness depends on being cast in productions (opera or otherwise) she should consider smaller
schools without a large grad student population. For example---the chances of her being cast in a production at a school like Indiana are virtually nonexistent due to the competition from the extraordinary grad students.</p>

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<p>Interesting remark about op's daughter and her body type not fitting MT mold....actually there is more variety in type casting with MT than opera....so many different ages and sizes of characters, something for literally everyone. OP's D may not fit the bill for the lead female romantic figure (if there is one), but there are many other possibilities. </p>

<p>Realisticallly, very few will ever make a living singing and performing, especially as a life and home supporting career. A diverse education keeps the doors open for all kinds of opportunities. </p>

<p>Good luck to you D, VicAria, and her very supportive parent! Lorelei</p>

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<p>Thank you for your observations, lorelei. Maybe I am leaping to pessimistic conclusions about her chances in MT. But even at the high school, she is already seeing that there are roles that she probably won't even be considered for, and there are occasions where she gets no role because she isn't a skinny "triple threat" or dancer-type. </p>

<p>Still, your comments and some I have seen while surfing the MT thread on this board make me think I shouldn't come to such a harsh judgement so early on in the process. </p>

<p>Thank goodness she is only going into soph year! ;P</p>

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<p>Vicaria---I asked my D what she would have done differently in preparing for
a vocal performance major. (She is in an opera program, but this applies to any vocal major)
1. keyboards!! A LOT more than the 3-4 hours a week she was taking
2. music theory---she placed the highest a vocalist had ever placed in her
university, but she said its never enough.</p>

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<p>As a voice teacher of opera singers, my opinion about background has evolved considerably. Many of my best singing students (and singers) do not have music degrees. An ideal curriculum to prepare a singer would be interdisciplinary, including but not limited to voice study, keyboard skills, some music theory and ear training, some music history and style, lots of foreign language work, English literature-prose and poetry, drama, movement and physical conditioning, psychology, visual history, world history....... All of these things lead one to a solid general education, and if you can find a school with a good voice teacher which allows an interdisciplinary degree, I would recommend it highly.</p>

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<p>Lorelei, I'd love to hear more about the evolution of our opinion. My daughter is a vocal music (BA) major who is in the process of changing to an individualized BA (global cultural relations...cultural emphasis in music). I doubt she'll ever try to go the performance route, but music is still vitally important to her so she doesn't want to slam the door shut on the possibility. However, if her new BA is approved, she will be lacking in IPA (she intends to study French intensively/extensively but as a spoken language), as well as the usual number (for a music student) of theory courses. She will, however, continue her private lessons, choral work, opera workshops, and many other music courses...and gain a lot of English, poli sci, history, religion, and sociology courses. Are you suggesting that if someone like my daughter later decided to pursue a MM, she wouldn't be totally out of the running? Or are you just suggesting that she (or someone like her) could continue private vocal lessons without being too much behind the eight ball?</p>

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<p>I have had at least two students with no undergraduate music degree enter MM programs in vocal performance. The key is in the wording of requirements for the graduate music program....."bachelor of music or its equivalent"....which basically gives a department/school/college of music permission to admit if they want the singer. There will likely be theory and music history placement exams, and there may or may not be language sequences which must be satisfied. IPA requirements can be handled through independent studies, a summer program, etc., again depending on flexibility and good will of degree granting institution. (One student concurrently pursued an undergraduate degree in German, requiring studies also in French and Italian, yet school required her to take diction courses using IPA....she was able to take it during summer at home as independent study and they accepted the transfer.) Another issue may be repertory requirements, especially performance of full solo recital program. Where the graduate music program is processed through the graduate school (as opposed to music school) there may be additional hurdles. Read the requirements....they are a contract and an escape clause.</p>

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<p>What is IPA?</p>

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<p>International Phonetic Alphabet - see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>It is used by singers as a pronunciation guide.</p>

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<p>Or, in some cases, India Pale Ale. Used by singers after the concert.</p>

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<p>I like the way you think, BassDad....</p>

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<p>Oddly enough, one IPA promotes what the other impedes - proper diction.</p>

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<p>The International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA) is a code of symbols which represent absolute physical ways of pronouncing and specific sounds. Some of the symbols will be familiar, for instance * is the symbol for the sound of the vowel in the word beet; is the sound of the vowel in the word boot, while {U} is the sound of the vowel in the word book. Other symbols will differentiate between the th in thine and the th in thing (not on my computer keyboard). THe idea is to show how to pronounce in another language, and/or what the standard pronunciation would be in the native tongue (instead of that pronunciation found in a regional dialect). This standardization is part of why opera singers sound operatic when they sing simple English songs, the diction is very precise and that contributes to the efficiency of the sound, hence it will project and resonate better than a sound which is less pure. TMI, I am sure, but it is a helpful and necessary tool in the study of singing. It originated with speech and language specialists.</p>

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<p>Lorelei, having had time to digest your comments, I think what you are saying is that for vocalists, it might be misguided for parents to think that undergraduate-level education alone will give their child enough vocational experience to compete successfully in the marketplace. Also, any performance career will be constitute a small percentage of one's adult life -- so the undergraduate years could be spent equally well broadening one's horizons, while forming the building blocks on which to become an excellent, mature singer. </p>

<p>I am open to that suggestion, and appreciate the guidance. But are there any singing styles or genres where that might not be the case? How could I know if my daughter's voice is at its "marketplace" peak?</p>

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<p>And thank you, Bassdad, for your definitions, LOL. I haven't drunk IPA since my college days; the operative word being "drunk".</p>

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<p>VicAria, anyone's undergraduate degree experience should provide an opportunity to learn critical thinking skills, broaden ones interests and awareness, enrich ones appreciation of other cultures, and allow the time to achieve independence...for traditional college aged students, the controlled environment and strong support staff of student affairs and concerned faculty are invaluable. If a music degree program is structured liberally, with a strong core curriculum in general education, it is possible to achieve more than just a trade school education (as music studies tend to be....ask the instrumentalists especially about this). </p>

<p>I am not well versed in what kind of education would be helpful for more popular music oriented vocal stylists. Music theater aspirants can continue their training in well run programs like Circle in the Square (NYC), which do not require undergraduate musical theater degrees so much as appropriate talent and instinct. Certainly an aspiring opera singer would need the broadest cultural education, and that works out fine, because it takes more physical maturity to satisfy most opera roles, well into the twenties, if not thirties. </p>

<p>Unfortunately many of the "best" music schools are restrictive about providing music and voice lessons (very expensive one-on-one instruction), but my experience has always been that if the talent is strong enough, and the singer shows up and struts his/her stuff, someone will go out on a limb, offer to overload, etc. It is always possible to buy lessons on the side with the best teacher possible, but it is not ethical to study with more than one person unless both are informed and agree. Some schools and/or teachers specifically forbid the practice. Obviously the location of the undergraduate school will affect the range of possibilities. Eastern Washington State Technological Institute (no such place, just an example) will probably not have a good voice teacher in the community who is not affiliated with the university and would be available for instruction, though you never know for sure! However, Southeast New York State Teacher's College will! </p>

<p>If there are particular schools which interest your daughter, I would be glad to tell you what, if anything, I know about the possiblities....feel free to PM me. Good luck.</p>

<p>And yes, you are right, there are no guarantees, no assumption is reasonable that having an undergraduate performance degree "qualifies" you to have a career. The less competitive schools frequently accept students into a performance program who have no business spending their time and money chasing an illusion, and the situation is aggravated by the fact that schools have to graduate a certain number of students in their degree programs to continue offering the degrees. It is a criminal practice, in my book, or at least highly unethical. A teacher is not doing a student a favor to encourage them inappropriately. Most folks are happier being successful than failing, and we owe it to others to give our best advice, not protect our own pocketbooks.</p>