<p>You do not feel like your daughter is depressed and I think you would know that. Teen years have always been tough, but it seems now if a teen isn’t performing like the super human they are expected to be, we jump to "they are depressed’. They are put on anti-depressants and start therapy, when most often it is just part of being a teenager with hormones that are stronger than any drug. Hold her close, probably deal with the facebook/texting which is no different than TV use to be for kids- one big time suck.</p>
<p>I’m with Oldfort on this. I like the whole post. Kids have ups and downs just like we do. And they drop activities for various reasons, just like we do. Try not to project her GPA=her future quite yet. Also, think about it, a 4.0 is just an average 4.0 these days. After my first son’s college acceptance experience (he did have over a 4.0) I realized they work very hard thinking they are going to get into a fab school and than end up at a school that 10 years ago took everyone with a B+ average. Kinda discouraging from their point of view don’t you think? I have concluded if the student isn’t near a 4.0, a 3.3 will probably get them into the same school as 3.7 does. Now that I have said this, you will notice how true it is. The whole college admission game is really pressuring kids before they have even developed coping skills. I hope it changes.</p>
<p>At least you got a few good years out of your daughter. My two sons, despite genius level IQs, were hopeless slackers from first grade all the way through high school. After two years at a third tier state university my older son has finally shaped up and is doing well. My younger son starts his freshman year at the same university in August and I am filled with foreboding about him.</p>
<p>Please read over my threads the past year and also those by Missypie.</p>
<p>Very similar</p>
<p>Obviously some trauma or underlying biochemical issue with such a drastic change.
Trust your instincts and be on the same page as your spouse in a united front to D.</p>
<p>The grades are less important than helping her recognize this is something different and there is a cause for concern.</p>
<p>Olympiclady, I don’t understand the value in avoiding ruling out a physical cause or depression and just chalking it up to ‘teens’ based on intuition. Seeking a professional doesn’t at all mean pop a pill. How many teens do you know on antidepressants that don’t need them? You do know they don’t actually help if one isn’t depressed, right? </p>
<p>In every case I’ve known, parents just felt they knew their teen wasn’t depressed…all were wrong (in that two ended up with eating disorders, two had to take a leave from school at some point). Mental illness in adolescence is way too common, and I’m not talking about simply overdiagnosis and who is medicated.
As an approachable professor, I also see more than my share of young people with serious mental health issues who need treatment but for many reasons have not gained the help of a professional. Far bigger issue than worry about overdiagnosis. </p>
<p>Probably not the trajectory here by why not rule it out? Especially on the physical front. I think it comes down to shame and lack of understanding about mental illness. If we were talking about a new and ongoing physical symptom, what parents would advise ‘oh don’t bother going to a doctor, as a mom you just can tell it’s not indicative of anything.’</p>
<p>I don’t have any shame or lack of understanding of mental illness. Quite the opposite. My father was bipolar and so is my nephew. I know the limits of medication especially on developing teens. Been to therapy myself - to deal with my teen and with my marriage. </p>
<p>The OP say’s her D. had 1 bad marking period- failed some finals but no grades below B-. The OP also states she does not think her daughter is depressed after several posts weigh in on it being depression. I feel the Mother knows her daughter better than people posting. I feel a good start would be limiting facebook, texting etc and see if that refocuses her. She quit dance but still loves competitive riding. No worries about her group of friends. </p>
<p>Isn’t it a fact that US children are the most medicated in all the developed countries? I guess I feel it is better to take it slow. Ever since I went to several lectures and read “The Price of Privilege: How Parental Pressure and Material Advantage Are Creating a Generation of Disconnected and Unhappy Kids”, I have a very different view on how to deal with teens. “The race to Nowhere” also resonated with me, especially since it was our school district. I do my homework. I’m informed. I don’t need to be jumped on. </p>
<p>By hey, Starbright, sorry if I pushed your buttons. I will just fade out here…</p>
<p>I don’t think ruling out physical causes is any advocacy of medicating this young person UNLESS objective or other evaluation shows that there IS a condition that warrants it. This can be through blood testing and other means. I personally am NOT found of medications but do realize that they CAN be essential to many conditions. I would be surprised, curious and concerned at the sudden drop in grades.</p>
<p>Sounds like depression. My best friend went through the same thing, even with the not wanting to do dance, something she’d done for 10+ years of her life. She finally sought help about a year and a half ago after hiding the depression from ages 10 until 15. Her mother was a doctor and didn’t even realize she had it, because the girl had been moody for years and no one would have guessed she had depression so young. It got really bad about a year or so before she told her parents. Yet the entire time she had managed to keep up her A grades in school and stay at the very top of her class, despite no longer hanging out with friends or doing anything she used to like or even having that much motivation for school.</p>
<p>2 Octobers ago she finally admitted to her parents after a particularly bad few weeks that she thought she might have depression and began treatment immediately. And thank god she did, because she had contemplating suicide extremely seriously and had come so close that last time, the only thing stopping her, she says, was her fear that she could wind up in hell (she wasn’t religious and didn’t actually believe in heaven/hell, but the possibility that it could exist and she’d be even more miserable had stopped her at the last second apparently). She began therapy and saw a psychiatrist and went through about 2 different medications until she found one that helped her tremendously. She’s off the medication now and just seeing a therapist and the depression has seemingly been gone for more than 6 months now.</p>
<p>Moral of the story: if your daughter has been acting like she has, perhaps it would be worth it to take her to see a doctor. Better safe than sorry, right? If my friend’s mom who was a doctor didn’t notice it and her grades had stayed good, then if your daughter’s mood has been similar and her grades have dropped and you’ve noticed, there could be something going on there.</p>
<p>I’m with the trust your instincts posters. I would definitely do a physical - all kids should have one every year anyway. Use your judgement about a therapist. I will say that sophomore year is often when kids change friends and change interests. I had one that literally dropped all his friends and started with a completely different crowd sophomore year. It’s quite possible she’s not that into dance, or not into the kids that are at her dance activities. My same one that changed friends changed his sport for junior and senior year. The fact that she still has other interests is positive.</p>
<p>We had one that slumped gradewise in the spring and we simply stopped allowing him to study in his room. We had him study in the dining room where there was no TV and we made it mandatory 45 minute each night a certainly reasonable amount of time. We made him leave his phone upstairs and slowly but surely the 45 minutes would turn into an hour sometimes and sometimes he would tell us after 30 minutes that his homework was done and he didn’t have any tests coming up. Interestingly he continued the dining room study habit into junior year without any prodding from us. Maybe keep an eye on things this summer and set some ground rules early when school resumes and see where you are next year.</p>
<p>I’m not ready to jump to a conclusion of depression, although I can see why the posters would suggest it. I’m familiar with bipolar disorder AKA manic depression, because of an extended family member, and I don’t see my D as having the classic depression symptoms, where there is a loss of interest in everything. It’s more that her interests have changed, which isn’t a bad thing in and of itself, if she only she hadn’t become less interested in school work. She seems to have traded her former interests in dance and school to friends and who knows whatever other distractions, while maintaining her interest in competitive horseback riding. Still, I do plan to move up her annual physical by a few months, and tell the pediatrician what I have been observing in her behavior, and see what the pediatrician recommends. </p>
<p>When my S was a HS sophomore, I tried to force him to study more, by setting a required school work time each night with no distractions. It backfired badly. He got his worst grades ever that year, and our relationship suffered greatly. He objected so strongly to being forced to do school work when he claimed to not have anything to do, that he would just sit there not trying at all. When I decided to just back off and let him take ownership for his studying, plus perhaps a bit of added maturity the next year, he got better grades junior year, and much better grades senior year. It is possible that it also helped a bit that I took him to visit a couple of low reach colleges at the end of August, just before junior year started. He liked the colleges, and I told him that to be able to get into schools like those, he would need to improve his grades.</p>
<p>So, I’m torn between trying to impose some more study time structure on my D or not. I’m gun shy because of the bad experience with my son. At the moment, my inclination is to only impose structured study time with no distractions for the few weeks leading up to midterms and finals. And also to apply a short-term punishment for the bad grades and lack of studying, probably in the form of extra chores around the house. I want to be sure to pick a punishment that is enforceable, as many possible punishments would be difficult to enforce while she is at home during the day in the summer and I am at work. She will spend a lot of her time this summer at the barn. She doesn’t have a formal summer job, but will do some work at the barn that reduces the costs of her riding lessons.</p>
<p>The big question is how do you motivate someone to study who is not self-motivated? And have others had good or bad experiences with enforced structured, distraction-free study times?</p>
<p>There was certainly a time when I was getting hyper about the college-thing that I overdid it too. I remember, it was just the beginning of his junior year and I was furious he’d choose NOT to attend certain events or simply misbehaved when we went to yet-another college talk. I worried that I ruined his interest in trying to do well to get into a decent college, but in retrospect I realize I was just adding to his stress level.</p>
<p>After having a very quick but incredibly helpful talk with our school social worker, I backed off, had a few heart-to-heart discussions with DS, and let him decide how much he was putting into the process. (She emphasized that this was only one part of his life, but maintaining our relationship should be most important.) One part I didn’t consider, but I know now how important it is, is the peer influence. It worked out fine.</p>
<p>That is, eventually she has to be self-directed. If you try to do too much, you’ll just mess up your relationship and it won’t really help. However, if she is too easily distracted by FB and texting, you should talk with her to help her realize the toll it is taking. Having facts, like a phone bill to support your position may help, but introduce that only if appropriate and NOT when you’re angry.</p>
<p>I have one who spent a whole bunch of years pretending to study while she was really on the phone (txting) or facebooking, or whatever. We even moved her and her lap top to the dining room table for her study-time. No depression, laz.i.ness. Oh, and she knew, even though I tried to hide it, that it drove me nuts. Reallly got to me. This one “gets” people and I think she loved to watch me get riled up while I pretended to be nonchalant and all “it’s your life.”</p>
<p>Anyway, we sent her to boarding school, where she had study hall, and I wasn’t there to get riled, and bam, straight A’s. </p>
<p>not saying you should send your kid to boarding school, just saying sometimes they know they are “getting to you” and so that’s a part of it. Just a different perspective.</p>
<p>I’m just a year younger than your daughter, and I went through a really lazy stage about 2 years back (but no D’s or F’s)
If your daughter isn’t depressed, is she hanging out with a new group of friends? My problem was that I was going to a school where the gifted program consisted of straight C and sometimes Ds &Bs students. I became the 4.0 astrophysics enthusiast I am now when I transferred to a school where all my gifted friends are straight A students and live learning. If your daughter’s friends are lazy and spend THEIR time chatting on Facebook versus doing their essay, then that’s a huge influence on your daughter. Your attitude about school when you’re a teen is very influenced by your friends. Maybe get your daughter to join an honor society or higher level classes? Sometimes its just a phase too. Everyone seems to have a ‘lazy’ point in their early years, even my fellow pre-cal classmates.
You may not really value my advice, and rightfully so, on this matter, but I’d say take away her phone and WiFi until she improves her grades. Say if she has a C in a class, no cell phone until she brings it up. Try to really let her know that D’s and F’s aren’t acceptable. Good luck with everything, I hope she turns around her attitude.</p>
<p>And also, showing her really good colleges she’d have to work harder to get into (that have a good rep as being fun) is a really good idea. If you don’t push her too hard to see them, and she likes them, it really helps motivate kids to do well in high school, as a couple of people mentioned above. Check out the top state school or nearby good ones around your town or ones near your next vacation spot.</p>
<p>I am probably the only one on the face of the earth w/o a FB account, so maybe some of you out there can help me. I believe there is a live feed option such that you get notified whenever one of your friends posts something; maybe it when it is only on your wall or maybe theirs or both. From what DD says, it can be totally distracting and a time suck. </p>
<p>When we were sharing a computer for internet access, i would sometimes check the computer’s history, and a LOT of time would be spent on FaceBook, YouTube, ■■■, etc. It is probably more time than your kid thinks, and self-control may be difficult, if not impossible. One year a few weeks before finals, DD had her friend change her FB password; then after finals, she asked for the new PW. When we were sharing computers, I put LeechBlock on. She was allowed ten minutes every hour or two on school nights. After her computer gained internet connectivity, she concluded that she needed LeechBlock to control herself. In her impulsive don’t-read-the-directions-until-it’s-too-late way, she accidentally locked herself completely out accidentally, but we eventually managed to fix it. The add-on runs on Firefox and maybe Chrome. You can decide days, time periods, amount of time, etc. to be locked out/shut down, and I think my family feels I should do that for the CC site!</p>
<p>Social media and YouTube and (for boys) video games can be an addiction that keeps them from studying. “Oh, but I asked for help, so I’m waiting for a text/e-mail/posting on my wall.” And when I hear voices at night, it is not her talking on the phone; she’s Skyping!</p>
<p>I’m the OP, so checking back in, because of the posts asking. </p>
<p>After a particularly bad period at the end of sophomore year (when I had posted), things have been going a lot better with D, midway through junior year. Her general mood is much better. We did a regular doctor physical this summer, with no problems. I asked if she wanted to go to counseling, and she didn’t want to, so I didn’t push it. She was punished modestly for the end-of-school-year slackoff and lying, which she accepted with good grace - temporary loss of some privileges, and assignment of some extra work tasks around the house. We also agreed to a plan for more serious and long studying period for all future mid-terms and final exams, instead of waiting til the last minute. Then we stopped talking about it. She had a chance to decompress over the summer. And had some good results in her horseback riding, including winning an important year-end championship award. She also got her braces off and got contacts. </p>
<p>We cut back on her overscheduling this school year - she considered dropping dance completely, but ended up reducing to once per week (from 4 times per week last year), and no more competition team. That seems to have been a big help to reducing the stress level. </p>
<p>She’s been in a pretty good mood this school year so far, and generally much more pleasant to be around. She is motivated in her classes, although grades are lower than I would like, because she has a very difficult class schedule this year. (Honors physics is kicking her butt, plus 2 difficult AP classes.) I’m avoiding getting too involved, since I can see that she is applying herself, and just help her when she asks for help.</p>
<p>She took the SAT in December, and we’re waiting on the scores (2 more days)… </p>
<p>Still a work in progress, so can’t say how things “turned out”. But I’m not so worried as I was at the time I had posted. I think the most important thing has been cutting back on the overscheduling, so that the stress level is lower.</p>
<p>Thanks for the update & good to hear things have improved. </p>
<p>Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and your daughter’s downward slide was a temporary bad time, and not a sign of deeper psychological issues. This is just one of the reasons why parenting is so dang hard! It’s hard to know, sometimes…</p>
<p>BTW, congrats on how you handled it: punishment, followed by support and “not talking about it” to let her decompress – sounds like a pretty solid path.</p>
<p>I think sophomore slump is a very real phenomenon. It would not surprise me at all if your D does better this year. </p>
<p>I also think that for many kids, seeing the link between effort and payoff at this stage is hard. They’re told they have to achieve achieve achieve, but college in 2 years is an eternity for them, and they don’t get it that their choices now will have consequences later. Many kids really do mature remarkably between 10th and 12th grade. The late(r) bloomer probably won’t get into tippy top schools right out of the gate at 17/18 but there is no reason to think that she won’t thrive in the medium-to-long term.</p>
This one “gets” people and I think she loved to watch me get riled up while I pretended to be nonchalant and all “it’s your life.”</p>