<p>I have been lurking here for awhile but the collective wisdom is just too great not to try to take advantage of! So here's my "I can't believe we're thinking about college already!" question: Lots of posters have mentioned how well their children "fit" their schools, and how that "fit" allows those kids to thrive. My D is a junior now and so we are in the beginiing stages of looking for "fit" schools for her. My biggest concern is that I want her to find a place where she will have friends. This has actually been a struggle for her in high school. We live in the deep south, where the highest aspiration of many of the girls is varsity cheerleader. Nothing against cheerleaders per se, but my D is pretty much the opposite of cheerleader material--tall, gangly, totally uncoordinated, bookish, and perhaps most of all, extremely shy. She tried really hard to fit in her freshman year, and spent most of her sophmore year very depressed (we thought clinically depressed at times, and even discussed the possibility of professional help--she resisted, and I'm still not sure we made the entirely right move letting her refuse). But this year has gotten progressively better. She's in a few AP classes and has formed a study group with some of the other AP kids. Just those few social contacts have made a world of difference in her emotional health. </p>
<p>So, how does one go about finding a good social fit? I am thinking small, liberal arts college, but perhaps not. Those are few and far between in the south, and while she has been away from home the past few summers (college summer school programs) and could probably be okay going far away, she's not desperate to get away. And she's never lived anywhere cold, so I don't know how she would fare somewhere like, say, Minnesota (which seems to have more than its fair share of LACS).</p>
<p>Okay, I could go on (and on!) but I think that hits the main points.</p>
<p>Two thoughts. Women's colleges . You have some in the south Agnes Scott is really good and Wesleyan in Macon is a very, very, well thought out place. There are more Sweetbriar and Hollins in the south, and of course Scripps, Barnard, Smith , Mount Holyoke, Wellesley, ..uhh...I'm blanking. </p>
<p>Second thought is that the year starting right now Jr year and ending about when they make their choice in their Sr year is the year they grow so much as individuals. Watch and marvel. They change before your eyes. Give her room to change herself, and change her mind. Maybe it doesn't always happen but it happens enough to watch for it. It's like the Northern lights. Beautiful when you take the time to see it. But danged if I know what's happening. ;)</p>
<p>BTW As a junior D was wanting rural, no frats or sororities. She's at Rhodes. In Memphis. She's a KD. ;) Her second choice was Yale. Third was the University of Miami. Let 'em change because change they will.</p>
<p>I'll throw in another thought here. Kids do change. But if she stays shy, sometimes a small LAC isn't the best choice. Why? Because at some LACs, class discussion is expected and can be a major factor in determining your grade. For the truly shy, talking out loud in class, even a class as small as 10 people, can be excruciating. Having to do it each and every day can be anxiety-provoking. </p>
<p>How did your D do during the college summer sessions? Did she enjoy them? Did she participate in class discussions? Does she in high school in her AP classes? If the answers are all affirmative, a small LAC may be a good choice. But if the answer is no...at least think about it.</p>
<p>Replies already! Thanks. Women's colleges might be a possibility but right now she is saying no. She is also saying she wants Ivy League but that is purely for the prestige factor because she has not seriously thought about what she wants from a college. She might have a shot at Ivy League (her gpa and ECs would be in the range--she took the ACT in April and we should be getting that score soon). We are planning to visit some colleges this summer to start all of us thinking more concretely about how to pick a college. </p>
<p>The possibility of change I do need to be reminded of. I do feel a little like a spectator in her life as she does branch out and take on new challenges. And really right now she has no well-thought-out ideas about what she wants in a college so there is definitely room (and a need!) for her to change her mind.</p>
<p>Oddly (or at least it seems somewhat odd to me) D is less shy about participating in class than about say, talking to her peers at lunch. Her real fear is personal rejection. And maybe the structure of a class discussion gives her a little confidence. She actually has done well (both academically and socially) at the college summer programs (both language programs). These programs were specifically designed for high school students so again I think there was a lot of structure, both in the class and in the social activites (all kids were expected to participate in everything, so she didn't have to asert herself, and risk rejection, to be included).</p>
<p>One college to consider is Rice University. Its residential college system does a wonderful job of providing each student with an instant family and wonderful support if they want it. The social life revolves around the residential colleges, so it's very inclusive of everyone. And they hold a fabulous week-long orientation that's very personal and provides bonds with other college members right from the very first day.</p>
<p>There was no risk of social personal rejection at the summer programs? </p>
<p>Everyone may have to participate in everything, but not everyone has to like everyone, listen attentively to everyone, be friendly with everyone. </p>
<p>My D's best friend from HS sounds exactly like your D. She is thriving at Grinnell. I was worried about her - out in the middle of nowhere, far from family, history of depression. But she is loving college, and coming out of her shell, slowly but surely. </p>
<p>Do I think it is because Grinnell is magical? No. I think it is because her wise parents hired a college counselor who helped her figure out what she wanted - helped her "own" the decision, while removing a good deal of the emotion from the situation. I usually don't promote the hired hands and didn't use them with any of my own kids. But in this case, the parents were smart to remove themselves from the equation. Nothing was their "fault." Kid did not feel any pressure from them one way or another. She was able to bounce ideas off an objective wall, and had a professional helping her figure out exactly what she wanted out of college, and how to get it. </p>
<p>I think letting her make all her own decisions, with professional guidance, was so much healthier than saying something like, "You need to stay close" or "you need a small school."</p>
<p>I still can't quite believe how well it has gone for her, but am so happy for her.</p>
<p>I did not know about Rice and the effort to provide social support to students. I'm guessing you know this by personal xperience but I wonder is there a resource that rates schools in terms of this factor? </p>
<p>ADad, you raise a good question. She definitely was happier at summer school than she has been, up until recently, at her regular school. My impression is that she did make friends, at least friends for the time she was there (she has kept in email contact, though sporadic, with I think two people she met there). My opinion is biased, of course, but she really is a likeable kid. I think her social isolation has come about both because her interests are so diferent from the interests of most girls at her school and also because she justs expects not to connect with people. Once she feels comfortable that she will not be rejected. Unfortunately it can take a fairly long time for her to feel that--I have seen with her study group, for example, that even though the other kids usually call her to arrange exactly when and where they will met, she is--after two or three months--still very hesitant to call one of them. I think she thinks that if they don't call, they must not want her to come. (And no amount of "if the shoe was on the other foot" reasoning will help.)</p>
<p>The idea of a college counselor is a really good one (especially since the school counselor is unlikely to be of much help). Do you know how your daughter's friend's parents found a good one?</p>
<p>You know what, if she does well in those pre-college programs, I thinks she'll do just fine at most colleges. Orientation programs are usually designed a lot like those high school summer programs, with some required events and lots of other social events designed to make people feel comfortable. I think you should avoid colleges with strong regional pulls because then she could run into the problem where many of the freshmen went to high school together and aren't as open to forming new friendships. At most colleges, though, students are really eager to get to know everyone, and there is little need to worry about social rejection because in the first couple of weeks people aren't turning down friends. This is especially true with girls. All girls are starting college and looking for their new group of girlfriends. As long as she goes out when invited, smiles, and becomes comfortable once she gets to know people, she should be fine. It's also important to note that a lot of her shyness may go away. It may be attached to her current school atmosphere or any rocky relationships she has now, but whatever the case, there's a good chance it will decrease significantly in college.</p>
<p>If she chooses a college based on her own set of interests (not going out of her way to focus on "social fit"), she will run into like-minded people. Perhaps that (given how well she did at the summer programs), combined with corranged's observations, will go a long way towards making her comfortable and happy at college.</p>
<p>Just in case you've not seen it, there are a lot of resources pertaining to shyness at: </p>
<p>She needs to look beyond the Ivy League because everyone needs to (too selective to count on), but also because none of them may be a best fit for her. We started by reading descriptions in college guides such as the Fiske Guide, not relying on prestige or looking at the top of the USNews rankings. Then we visited schools that sounded like best fits. In my son's case, none of the "Ivies" sounded like comfortable social matches. Brown would have been good but was bigger than he wanted and we certainly would never have counted on him being accepted at Brown, had it made his list. We looked at schools at almost every level of selectivity--from 90+% acceptance rate to under 20% acceptance rate and he applied to schools who accepted 19% to 60+%.</p>
<p>Your daughter needs a balanced list of schools with some that she knows she can get into and you believe you can afford--and that she would like to attend. Don't over-rely on her school's GC because sometimes they over-estimate a student's chances at a given college.</p>
<p>Please keep an open mind on the all-girls schools and see if she'd be open to reading about a few and visiting too. Many are in consortia, so students can take classes at co-ed schools. Bryn Mawr and Haverford are effectively one school on 2 campuses. Keep an open mind to different parts of the country. There are so many great schools out there and your D will likely have better admissions result outside of her geographic area</p>
<p>She sounds like a student who would do well when surrounded by serious students. She can find them at many, many LAC's and many, many universities.</p>
<p>In reading your original post, what struck me in your description of your daughter was not so much the description of shyness as the description of her peers in HS having different interests and aspirations.</p>
<p>Our S found that when he arrived at his college and was surrounded by other students who were smart, curious, interested, and interesting, he quickly developed friendships with these like minded students. </p>
<p>Does this sound like your daughter? If so, I would think that finding her niche would mean finding the schools that seek well balanced classes of interesting kids. Maybe a school that is extremely heavily Greek would feel too much to her like the social scene is still revolving around the "cheer leader types." (No, I am not dissing Greek life, just saying that it is not for everyone. Then again, a nurturing sorority could be just the ticket.)</p>
<p>I was thinking Swarthmore (which someone already mentioned) and University of Chicago--both are reaches for everyone but she might like the campus climate. If she's more focused on the south, Emory offers an option where freshman can start at a smaller campus about 40 miles away, then transfer to the main campus for junior and senior year. I can see some real pros and cons to the program, but it might be worth a look. Oxford</a> College - A Distinctive Place</p>
<p>Also Cur-I think you are so right our S has changed tons in just the last few months as a Junior and I am expecting more in the next year which is making the college search so hard.</p>