<p>Not sure if you’re referring to my post, but since I did mention paying for either/ors, I’ll bite.</p>
<p>People who can afford to pay full freight without much sacrifice are few and far between. Most make the sacrifice early on by building up savings, and/or take the lifestyle and/or savings cut when the kids are in school. There are certainly people who can spend the $50k a year per kid without breaking too much of a sweat. Some may be on this thread. Some others break a sweat but keep it to themselves. </p>
<p>Wanting to save money by sending kid to el cheapo school is not necessarily the same thing as wanting to send a kid to a bad school. For instance, for all the problems with California higher education these days, the UCs may still be a better fit for my kids than many private schools with higher pricetags. Or there may be a full-pay private school that has some advantages over the far less expensive in-state public (or the private school with the generous aid offer), but the cost/benefit analysis says it’s just not worth it. Like schmoomcgoo says, you want your kid to be sensible. If a family always considers value and thrift and money management and all that good stuff, that applies to education as well. Choosing a college isn’t where these families start teaching thrift, they’ve been teaching it all along. </p>
<p>A downpayment on a house may or may not be a better use of cash that parents are sitting on right now. Some people look at where they’re going to go to college in terms of how it’s going to pay off and get them higher overall incomes. For some kids like this, the downpayment is going to pencil out better. Other kids may know that they want to go into fields where they’re not going to earn much money. A student who wants to be a teacher, but who also likes a nice lifestyle, might take the tradeoff. The kid with a Harvard acceptance who wants to be an IB or go into politics will figure differently. </p>
<p>Planning on helping the grandkids seems to be a pay it forward kind of thing. If you benefitted from that kind of arrangement, it’s more likely you’d want to do the same thing yourself one day. Grandparents seem to like their grandchildren more than they like their grandchildren’s parents, anyway </p>
<p>Helping with grad/professional school seems to fit right in with paying for undergrad. The family that can handle $200k for undergrad without too much effort might not be able to manage $400k for ug + med school. Fair enough to let a child know up front if there are limits on total educational spending.</p>
<p>Blossom:
I don’t know many affluent folks who send their kids to cheapo schools. Perhaps it’s the definition of affluent that makes the difference?
Assuming money is not limitless, can’t it make sense to save for grad school or med school and pull back some on undergrad…why is that a bad idea?<br>
I don’t think it makes sense to make college decisions that are heavily weighted by money…especially when money is not a concern. But what percentage of the population is in THAT category? 1% maybe? Most of us schlubs have to make choices with our money. Most of us don’t have fat pensions, will need to fund our retirement and may face the risk of actually outliving our money.
Yeah, I agree that those who put false limits on their kids to try to teach them thriftiness are probably misguided. I just don’t see many examples of that here…</p>
<p>Tone, how many of the HS kids who plan to become doctors actually make it to med school? A very small proportion. YMMV.</p>
<p>I just think to make a decision about a 17 year old’s next step on the basis of being able to help out with med school is penny wise and pound foolish- assuming you have the assets to be helping out in the first place.</p>
<p>I know LOTS of affluent people whose kids are at various branches of City College and other similar places (not to knock them- they are fine institutions, but these are people who could afford other options but didn’t want to pay for them-- in many cases kids had acceptances to much more prestigious places but with only nominal merit aid). So wondering why Baruch makes sense but giving up a vacation or two doesn’t is just a head scratcher.</p>
<p>There is a reverse chic dynamic going on right now- maybe it’s healthy, I don’t know. OK to flaunt your money if it’s for a snazzy kitchen or a new car for your 18 year old, but paying full freight for college is only for losers??? Since everyone knows that there’s no difference between Southern Connecticut State and Yale other than the price tag since everyone at Yale is either a dumb athlete or a dumb rich legacy and both schools are in CT? Plus who wants their kid hanging around with a bunch of prestige %^&* anyway and if George Bush is a representative of what the school turns out who needs it? (That’s a direct quote.)</p>
<p>I never thought that asking my s to think carefully about the value of his college choice could be construed as asking him to wear a “hair shirt” for my prior sufferings or as some sort of punishment. I am able and happy to pay for a private school education if my son makes the choice over a cheaper public university as long as the choice is made with an attempt to gauge the cost/benefit tradeoff. Teaching your kid the value of a dollar (particularly a dollar spent on education) is not punishment; Just because you can buy your kid the most prestigious education doesn’t mean it is the “best” education; He has just observed us debating the whole custom kitchen overhall and deciding to go with only a refinishing and touchup. No to the Aga stove (my personal Bugatti) and yes to Sears basic oven. Would the custom kitchen have been nicer? can I afford it? do I still sigh a little over the Aga? Yes, yes and yes (only occasionally and secretly). The decision comes down to how much you value the aga stove and the granite countertop versus the price doesn’t it?</p>
<p>I went to Duke with a lot of sacrifice by my parents, federal financial aid, endless hours frying burgers during HS and some debt for me. I was entranced by the school, the campus, and the smart, sophisticated students and turned down a full ride at the State Univ. As a 17 year old, however, I did not fully comprehend the costs for me or my parents. While I was there, Reagan made massive cuts in Pell Grant program and I took a semester off to attend StateU since we were were totally out of money. Luckily, Duke came up with grants for me so I could return but not before I realized that the StateU had excellent professors and courses. I really appreciated the $450 cost for 5 great courses, worked hard and was the top student in every class–even the 1500 student intro econ class. I returned to Duke after some pretty hard thinking because I missed the smart, dedicated students and that was what made it “worth” it and I have no regrets. However, I benefitted greatly from having to make that choice–comparing StateU and Duke in terms of their benefits and costs. I know I worked much harder when I returned and tried to take full advantage of the Duke experience when I could see its costs so I needed to maximize the benefits. I remember hunting down a TA who had cancelled class so he could work on his dissertation; I said “I paid 50 dollars to attend the class that you cancelled todayand every $2.65 represents one hour working at Burger King to me so you either pay me $50 or you teach me for 1 hour”. I got one on one tutoring and a cup of coffee from him. He never cancelled class again that semester. That’s what I want my kid to feel about his education–wherever he chooses to go.</p>
<p>Somewhat of a generalization but the people that I know with net worths in the millions tend to send their kids to public schools and those under a million to privates, in many cases to the best privates. Then at a lower net worth point, it’s back to publics. These are self-made people in the tech area.</p>
<p>Well Blossom, seems we have the reverse dynamic around here…at least from what I can see. Perhaps there are regional differences?
Here, I see lots of folks go into big debt to send their kids to the “shiny” schools. It’s just so very cool to go to a shiny school around here…the pressure from peers and other parents is enormous. Parents put the schools on grad party invites. They send Christmas cards with shiny school sweatshirts. It’s a big deal.
There are also plenty of affluent folks who send their kids to shiny schools.
Bottom line, we have lots of kids going to shiny schools around here. The in state option is not cool. Even though it’s not cheap. Perhaps it’s a NE kind of thing.
Bottom line, it’s darn near impossible to make generalizations here. Each family has their own reason for doing things. I just think it’s a shame when parents feel pressure to do more than what they really can afford. IMO, that’s a much more serious issue than rich parents forcing their kids to go to…egads…a state school.
Anyway, we’re off topic. For those of us who have unlimited dollars, competing priorities (and I’m not talking about cars and fancy vacations) but SOME money to spend on college, these are HARD and very personal choices. Investing for the future by setting aside funds is an option…and not a bad one IMO. Expensive is not always better…</p>
<p>One thing I remember from Duke is that they did a study and it was observed that the kids coming from private schools had higher GPAs in freshman and sophmore years but that the public school kids gradually overtook them by senior year (on average). Is it possible that the public school kids were working harder due to the perceived “cost” to them? there are various explanations. Certainly, many of the private school kids came in better prepared than some of us public school kids…so perhaps the money spent on high school education had demonstrated worth, but maybe they were a bit burned out too. I personally had a lot of academic hurdles to overcome. I didn’t know how to write a footnote and I publicly humiliated myself in freshman seminar by failing the general knowledge questionnaire (how many symphonies did Beethoven write? name a french impressionist painter? what is euthanasia? --I only knew who had won the world series). I can laugh at it now but I really saw how different my pre college education differed from that of my prep school peers. For a lot us us public school kids, the freshman year was a real awakening to our knowledge gaps and a determination to make up through effort what we had not been given earllier.</p>
<p>Finearts: I have read the whole thread, and I think you have a very good grasp of the issue here, and will do what is best for your S. Do it just the way you have thought it out. My S. had a VERY comfy upbringing, but now it is necessary to prepare him to live at HIS means going forward. A lot of ways to do this…BUT IT MUST BE DONE. Every Grad I know (and I have contact with a lot) does not have a professional job 1-2 years out of school…so it is back to school to do what they know how to do. Something not right about that being a universal experience.</p>
<p>The difference between private and public school kids is private school kids do a lot more reading and writing, and they are more used to college level courses. You see a bigger difference the first 2 years because the main focus are core entry level courses. Those advantages you see in the first 2 years start to even out once they start to focus on their majors. D1’s private school also taught time management and study skills, which most public schools do not do. But a smart kid from a public school would be able to figure it out eventually.</p>
<p>I feel the need to point out that this a very regional thing…UC’s are soooo competitive these days (except for 2 of them) that when you say where your student was acccepted there are ohh’s and ahh’s “wow, those are so hard to get into” that unless your child is going to move east there is very little advantage career wise to go to an elite back East, and certainly not a LAC, because unless you are from back east they have no idea what Williams is or Midd. Now Stanford, Cal Tech, Pamona…that is the cream out here-</p>
<p>oldfort…more generalizations. I thought you might be joking when I read your post. Perhaps, again, there are regional differences.
My son went to a top public high school, and did an extensive amount of reading and writing, along with his AP physics and math. Learning time management and study skills became a necessity; he’d have fallen off a cliff without these skills. I can’t imagine a better prepared student. Granted, it was HIS choice to rise to his level of ability and take the toughest courses available. Perhaps, in a private school, kids who are less likely to push themselves would not be given a choice.</p>
<p>toneranger - I can only compare my kids’ private school and the top public schools around our area. D1 went to our local school for a short period and we have a lot of friends’ kids at those public schools. In 9th grade we get additonal 30-40 kids come into the school. Those kids are most likely top of their class. They usually struggle the first year until they are used to amount of writing assignments and work at our kid’s school. Many of those students also need to get tutored for time management. My kid’s school is also known to be very hard and many parents send their kids to our school when they feel they are not challenged.</p>
<p>Again, maybe generalization, but D1 did feel she was better prepared than some of her friends. But it did all equal out after a year.</p>
<p>"I know I worked much harder when I returned and tried to take full advantage of the Duke experience when I could see its costs so I needed to maximize the benefits… I said “I paid 50 dollars to attend the class that you cancelled today and every $2.65 represents one hour working at Burger King to me so you either pay me $50 or you teach me for 1 hour”…That’s what I want my kid to feel about his education–wherever he chooses to go.</p>
<p>fineartsmajormom; That was so perfect, you don’t even know…</p>
<p>“I feel the need to point out that this a very regional thing…UC’s are soooo competitive these days” seems true to me. Cream of the crop (not to mention the physicians kids) around here, i.e. the vals almost ALWAYS aspire to Cal and UCLA, and UCSD aint too shabby either. Last few years, the others are looking pretty sweet too, but then again, tides are changing.</p>
<p>fineartsmajormom; I think you could teach US a lot here based on your experiences.
But it’s a very interesting question…how to teach children these values when they’re not facing the circumstances you did. </p>
<p>Personally, I came from a situation that involved a choice between state school a and state school B…both very low cost…both unspectacular but sufficient. Since my parents did not go beyond hs, I was grateful to just attend college. And even more grateful that I could go away and get the experience of a resident student.</p>
<p>My son had many more options…based on a combination of smarts (leading to scholarship offers) and our relatively comfortable financial situation. I don’t think that he will ever fully have my perspective, as he did not live my life. But I do share my thoughts with him and he is very aware of his roots. I think that makes a difference.</p>
<p>That $50 story alone is quite powerful. I’m sure you have many more…</p>
We might be living in different worlds in N. California but I still haven’t seen anyone who have choosen even Cal ‘UCB’ over HMSPY&C just because it is half the cost.</p>
<p>All the top students at every public and private HS in the area still only aspire to get into HMSPY&C. UCB for these children is only a back up plan in case.</p>
<p>C for Caltech for some(Science) and Columbia for others(Arts).</p>
<p>This is about the children for whom Cal ‘UCB’ is full pay, so the difference is around $20000 - $23000</p>
<p>While I’ve seen lots of public HS children who have choosen even Duke over Cal for pre-med. Also seen public HS children who cried after getting rejection from all Ivies and had to go to ‘Cal’ (Non Engg.).
So we must be living in separate world.</p>
<p>An easy way to find this out is by going to science fairs in the area/ First robotic competitions or any other academic competition at HS level. Ask the children from any public or private HS what college they looking to go to and the > 95% will say one of the HMSPY college.</p>
<p>ParentofIvyHope, Yes, I would say you are living in a different world. In Virginia(as I’m sure is true of many in California) many of the top students(both public and private ) aspire to UVa and William and Mary,etc. Norfolk Academy, as an example,(founded in 1700 something I believe) sends MANY students to UVa each year (many applying ED when it was still available). Same with many top students in public schools who would have been viable candidates at HYP,etc.</p>
<p>“I paid 50 dollars to attend the class that you cancelled todayand every $2.65 represents one hour working at Burger King to me so you either pay me $50 or you teach me for 1 hour”. </p>
<p>fineartsmajormom, I too loved this. I applaud you and hope some of the students on this board read this and find inspiration. I feel confident with an attitude like this that you and your family will make a solid decision on what’s right for your son. Best wishes to you in the process.</p>
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