A high school friend is a wealth management advisor at a blue-chip firm. He has a number of clients whose kids have
degrees from Big Deal liberal arts colleges but can’t get jobs. (He mentioned Wellesley specifically) His clients are able to foot the quarter of a million dollar bill but that’s not the point. He told me not to rely on the promised network of graduates who would help finding a position. He advises clients to go to good universities where they can dual in philosophy and accounting!
This is not what DD wants to hear. How can I get actual career placement information so she can make an informed decision?
All you can do is make an informed decision on the available data.
I do think this is where the current generation is at a disadvantage. They almost have to decide what they want to do first before picking a school. Otherwise lots of money is wasted “finding themselves”.
Accounting is a trade like a plumber. Not sure what a philosophy angle has to do with it.
So pick the college that is highly ranked and has a vibrant environment for the occupation your student wants.
No need to go to Wellesley if you want to be a chemical engineer when you graduate. Maybe not best to go to Kansas state to study Marine Biology either (i admit as to not knowing if Kansas has a wonderful program in that).
Lots of it is a crap shoot. All you can do is make the best decision you can.
Philosophy was a standin for any non-science Liberal Arts major. The idea is to learn a trade while getting an education. My best friend was a dual History/Finance major.
“All you can do is make an informed decision on the available data.”
That’s the issue. What data? There are so many traps to avoid. Saying x% of graduates get a job in their field could be meaningless if you don’t know which jobs. A mid-sized northeast university brags about this but when you look at sample jobs of last years grads you see that many are assistant level. There’s no shame in starting out as an assistant as long as you’re willing to live on assistant wages.
Echoing @MassDaD68 somewhat and expanding, I believe: Liberal arts colleges tend not to train you in a technical skill nor a trade. Those tend to be taught at, you know, tech schools and trade schools. There are exceptions, of course, and on average the LACs offering trades or professional degrees tend to be the ones lower ranked – which means not as sought after by prospective students.
So why are these non-tech-oriented LACs so popular? Are people fooled by some charade? What gives? I believe it’s because many people attend them in order to get the philosophical background and to learn “critical thinking skills.” Learning how to write and express yourself is also high on the LAC list of skills – and it’s invaluable. Creative problem-solving, I think is part of the portfolio, too.
The reason our family is emphasizing LACs over tech schools (and we’d definitely pour our efforts into tech schools if our kids wanted to attend one) is that in general we value the skills of enriched thinking that LACs tend to provide. You know, that crazy course I took on folk tales turns out to be one of the most useful in my life. That sort of thing. Or: gee I’m really glad I took that Indonesian art history class. Who would have thunk that I’d reach back in my mind for that worldview so much? While not practical on the surface, having these varying perspectives are really practical over the long haul, from helping you throughout your career, to helping you problem solve in all aspects of your everyday life, from personal health decisions to maintaining relationships with your relatives.
It can feel frustrating to graduate from a top LAC and not find a job in “history” or in “women’s studies” or in “studio art” or “Indonesian folk tales” – whatever your LAC major may be. It’s possible to find jobs in those fields, but many people will not find something explicitly tailored to their major. This is true. Many people make fun of LACs for being ‘impractical’ because they don’t emphasis trades or tech skills that lead directly into a field. It’s up to you to decide if that’s a valid criticism.
For my taste, I’m hoping to guide my kids into learning first how to think. It’s a craft in and of itself. Beyond that I hope they pick up technical skills as they see fit, whether in college or once they get out. It’s not hard to find places to teach accounting, coding, nursing, law, or other professions.
What does your D actually want to do? (And what did she want to hear?)
There are different types of networks. And different types of “job placement” statistics.
If you go to big state U that is known to be the best in your major (and state) and stay in the area where those hiring you also went to big state U–then it’s a plus. If you move 10 states away–maybe not.
If you go to a school nationally known for a specific field, that a definite plus.
If you major in a field that “everyone knows everyone” you have a definite network if you went to the best school for that career.
For “wealth management” , accounting seems like the practical choice of major. It’s detail oriented.
Philosophy is often touted for admission to law school (doing well on LSAT exams etc) because it is logic based (plus writing). It’s really teaching a way to think. Since “wealth management” has so much law attached then learning to read like a lawyer would be a plus.
So I think you got good advice.
Just attending a great university doesn’t help in the job market if you graduate with no marketable skills or the school doesn’t focus on your actual needs.
I don’t know data, but my daughter was very happy with career services at Barnard – she took advantage of all their offerings and attended the various workshops they offered to help with resume-writing, interviews, etc – an during her senior year commented to me that the career center offerings were one of the best parts of her educational experience at Barnard. Not to demean the education at all – it’s just that I think she felt that Barnard provided her with the resources and support needed to know how to go about finding a job. She also used the Barnard network for informational interviews and had an alumna mentor in a field related to her goals.
I would take issue with some of the advice you have been given about majors. My daughter’s current job really has very little to do with her undergraduate major. As far as employment it is important to gain workplace skills through part-time and summer jobs, and career-related skills through internships. So the jobs my daughter was doing to pay the bills was as important as the college she attended. EC’s can be important too,depending on how they relate to future employment interests.
My daughter did have college friends who had a harder time finding work than she did, but she commented to me that they weren’t looking for work as hard or as early as she was. Maybe they didn’t sign up for that mentorship program, or maybe they sent out fewer resumes or weren’t as proactive about seeking out employment. So I’m not sure whether data about employment stats is all that helpful, especially at the undergrad level, where many students are planning on attending grad school.
I don’t know data, but my daughter was very happy with career services at Barnard – she took advantage of all their offerings and attended the various workshops they offered to help with resume-writing, interviews, etc – an during her senior year commented to me that the career center offerings were one of the best parts of her educational experience at Barnard. Not to demean the education at all – it’s just that I think she felt that Barnard provided her with the resources and support needed to know how to go about finding a job. She also used the Barnard network for informational interviews and had an alumna mentor in a field related to her goals.
I would take issue with some of the advice you have been given about majors. My daughter’s current job really has very little to do with her undergraduate major. As far as employment it is important to gain workplace skills through part-time and summer jobs, and career-related skills through internships. So the jobs my daughter was doing to pay the bills was as important as the college she attended. EC’s can be important too,depending on how they relate to future employment interests.
My daughter did have college friends who had a harder time finding work than she did, but she commented to me that they weren’t looking for work as hard or as early as she was. Maybe they didn’t sign up for that mentorship program, or maybe they sent out fewer resumes or weren’t as proactive about seeking out employment. So I’m not sure whether data about employment stats is all that helpful, especially at the undergrad level, where many students are planning on attending grad school.
As to why some kids can’t find jobs? Barnard gives financial aid to less than half of its students – that means that more than half come from privilege. (I mean, who can afford full pay at $75K per year?). Those kids probably didn’t have retail or food-service jobs in high school like my kids did. They didn’t qualify for or need work-study like my daughter did, and most probably wouldn’t have thought to look for part-time paid employment outside of class. And maybe they thought they didn’t need that intensive mentoring program at the career center that my daughter signed up for.
So it’s a lot about mindset and individual experience. College major actually has very little to do with it.
.
But Barnard and similar LAC’s don’t offer an “accounting” major – or any major intended to meet specific career requirements with a bachelor’s degee. (See https://barnard.edu/areas-of-study/ ) And given that this is a Barnard College thread, I am commenting on Barnard career outcomes.
If the OP wants career-placement data, then maybe a LAC would not be the best choice. But career-placement data from schools tends to be unreliable in any event, as it is typically based on self-reported information from student and alumni surveys.
@gouf78 If you wanted to be an accountant, you probably wouldn’t have attended Barnard as it doesn’t have a business school or business program, nor does Columbia for undergraduates.
@calmom I have to applaud you for your post. I’ve heard people complain about difficulty finding jobs, not just at Barnard but at many other first-tier universities, but when you press them you usually find that they took zero initiative or filed a few online applications at most. This reflects the notion on the part of some people that the universities should line up jobs for them.
My D. went to Barnard. She was interested in public health and human rights, and so spoke to her professors. They were exceptionally helpful. One of her HR and public health professors put her in touch with a colleague at the UN, and she wound up doing a fantastic internship with WHO. You do however have to take the initiative.
@byadg123 i highly recommend you read Frank Bruni’s book. I think the title is Where You Go is not Who You’ll Be. It discusses how to cut through the college noise and find the right school. Its about what kind of learning experience you want and what you want to do. My colleagues daughter graduated from wellesley a few years ago. She was in several programs in economics and ended up working for the obama white house. Shes now in another econ job. She had 4 or 5 econ related job offers coming out of school.