"at least as listed on their “chance me”
A word of advice- Dont bother reading the “what are my chances” posts.
They are written by naive HS students who often greatly exaggerate their accomplishments. /
CC old timers, like myself, ignore them entirely.
I know the Colleges know about differences in high schools, but do all the posters here at CC take those differences into account when offering advice on HS course selection strategies? That’s all I am getting at…
The users on College Confidential are not a representative sample of college-bound students, even those targeting HYPMS.
Most do. Some don’t. But the OP can view our profile to see how long we’ve been here. To be fair, the OPs in these cases can often help by giving a better texture on their high school as well as indicating some of their target colleges.
Something it’s important to remember:
One of the purported strengths of the American elite university admission system, and a corresponding weakness in the system used elsewhere, is that if you have only one model to determine who gets admitted, you tend to have a class that consists of too much of the same kind of person. The “passion” model described by @BrianBoiler is certainly one type of applicant who – if they are honest, and real, and have all the right backup in terms of grades and test scores – get a good,hard look from admissions, and plenty of acceptances. But that’s not the only path in. Indeed, college would practically be hell if it were.
Most kids don’t naturally have a “passion” at 15 that organizes their life in such a way that at 17 it can be made to seem like a coherent narrative going in one, clear direction. Most kids will flop around between crushes on this or that between the time they are 10 and when they are 25 (or 30, or 40). Most kids, in high school will barely have done anything that relates to what their life work will be. Among my kids’ high school friends: The serious-music composer and circus artist is a Quaker peace activist in Palestine, the math whiz is an international lawyer, the scholar of medieval Latin poetry is a Marxist political science PhD candidate, the aspiring MD/PhD/politician (who aced AP Calculus BC in 9th grade) is a wealth manager, the other aspiring MD/PhD does big pharma consulting at McKinzie, the aspiring dentist is a tech salesperson and startup stock option millionaire who’s about to re-enter Silicon Valley with a fresh MBA, the art theorist does venture capital, the popular music critic is an education reform expert working at a foundation, the French lit student runs an organic produce distribution network for co-ops, the Medecins Sans Frontieres enthusiast is a survey methodology expert.
Of course, most kids don’t go to college at Harvard or Stanford, either – although a number of the kids described above did – but even there, it’s not all passion-passion-passion. It does, however, help to be self-aware and interesting, and capable of expressing yourself well. It also helps a lot if you can find recommenders who are effective at communicating what’s special about you to strangers.
There’s no silver bullet.
@JHS my goal was to tell how to improve your chances. It is by no means the only way to get accepted, nor do I propose only those with a passion are accepted. As a 50 year old who still doesn’t know my passion, I understand your point.
“I know the Colleges know about differences in high schools, but do all the posters here at CC take those differences into account when offering advice on HS course selection strategies?”
@colfac92
many old farts, like me, who have been around for a long time ,do.
so you may want to review posters overall post totals, how long they have been on CC, and “likes”, when deciding whose advise to follow.
menloparkmom
Registered User Posts: 12,218 Senior Member
JHS
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skieurope
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blossom
Registered User Posts: 8,602 Senior Membe
“@JHS my goal was to tell how to improve your chances”
@BrianBoiler ,
your initial post was well written, but I think I should point out your conclusion that your offer of advice was based solely on 2 data points.
stick around CC for a few years and read, read, read. You’ll learn a lot.
You’ll find that what happened to your kids is not a guide for all who apply to holistic colleges.
This is neither here nor there, but for those keeping track of post counts, my count, and that of every other moderator, is inflated because posts we make behind the scenes (e.g. resolving flagged posts) are included in the count; I actually have not made 32K public posts. 
The like and helpful numbers, though, are correct.
Not buying it. If your kid’s stats are in the appropriate range then it is a crapshoot for top 20 schools. I know several kids this year from D18’s HS with top stats who got skunked on the the top 20 schools. Different kids coming at it from different angles. Scores didn’t matter (ACT 35-36). Class rank didn’t matter (Val to top 13% rank). Rigor didn’t matter (from 8 to 12+ APs). ECs didn’t matter (one was recruited for soccer). Zippo admits.
I did see one school include on their brag sheet a “beekeeper” as one of the “students you’ll meet in the incoming class”. Seriously? We’ll see how long that “passion” for beekeeping lasts in college…
Holistic admissions. I wonder if they missed something in the essay: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/04/17/binghamton-university-student-charged-in-targeted-stabbing-death-freshman.html
My kid did not mention at all his passion — in fact he doesn’t have a definitive passion— or what he wanted to do in college, although he had a focused ECs. He talked about his life experiences, who he was and how he appreciated his family and how it was important to him to not leave a weaker or less fortunate member of his community behind. He got into all colleges he applied, including Stanford. Perhaps the adcom could infer he was a thoughtful 17 year old kid trying to find his place in the world — and that was enough.
I believe if you have a focused ECs, you don’t have to do an overkill and talk about your passion. I really believe adcom wants to know you and that a person is more than his passion.
“If your kid’s stats are in the appropriate range then it is a crapshoot for top 20 schools. I know several kids this year from D18’s HS with top stats who got skunked on the the top 20 schools. Different kids coming at it from different angles. Scores didn’t matter (ACT 35-36). Class rank didn’t matter (Val to top 13% rank). Rigor didn’t matter (from 8 to 12+ APs). ECs didn’t matter (one was recruited for soccer). Zippo admits.”
That data doesn’t reveal any of the parts of the app that holistic colleges make their decisions on, though. You can’t see if the student wrote a tone deaf, meaningless or arrogant essay for example. You have no idea if the teacher recs were lukewarm or worse, unintentionally contained info that was negative.
I have no idea where these kids applied and of course since I’m not on the admissions committees for those schools would also have no idea if those schools used a lottery system and picked names out of a giant drum, but the information we can see - GPA and test scores - isn’t sufficient to give any of us a hint as to whether the app process was holistic and reasonable or if it was a lottery.
I’ll be honest, this method might be a great way to get into an elite college but It’s not really how I want my own kids to spend their childhood.
I want passionate children but I don’t really want them to zero in on a single passion during the the time in life they have the most flexibility to explore.
We sent our kids to schools that don’t believe in the AP system. They took honors and duel enrollment. They didn’t even take EVERY honors and duel enrollment opportunity available. They did spend countless hours in their own study for no credit just learning for the sake of learning. I think kids SHOULD take courses outside their area of interest because they are kids and interests and passions can CHANGE.)
We know tons of kids who get accepted to multiple Ivy’s every year. What we’ve seen (and I’m speaking purely from personal environment, not saying this is every kid) from those kids is a lot of anxiety. A lot of parent sanctioned putting friends and family second to personal pursuits. A lot of taking on leadership roles and signing up for volunteer work but expecting their “less ambitious” peers to pick-up their slack anytime an exam was looming or some other activity that ranked higher in admissions needed them. A lot of fear of failure which also can come with a fear of risk taking and fear of exploring a different path. Some really nice and bright kids certainly but not a lifestyle any of us envied.
My kids are gifted, grade skipping, passionate imperfections that the Ivy League has no interest in (ok, only one kid applied to an Ivy and Brown rejected her) but they could get into other really great schools with enough either merit and/or financial aid without sacrificing a childhood that included some B’s and some flops, and some lazy days and some silly pursuits and a regular old job just to make money.
@BrianBoiler Completely agree your OP. Parents and their kids staring HS or even in middle school should take your advice approaching the college application process. You would be a very competent college application coach if you do.
@BrianBoiler As a counter example of one, my son was also admitted to UChicago this year. He is a polymath, interested in learning for the sake of learning, and thus his application included a wide range of APs and other advanced courses spread across different disciplines. As much as he tried to organize his application around a single theme, it was hard to do due to the diversity of his interests (reflected in ECs as well). But apparently, UChicago loved it as much as it did the single passion kids.
Honestly, I have several problems with the OP’s advice. First is that the elite colleges keep moving the goal posts. When I was applying, the schools were looking for well rounded kids. They wanted kids who had interests and accomplishments in a variety of areas, who showed some leadership and who would add to the campus culture by getting involved. That was me. I was lucky to have been applying in that era. Then the song changed. Colleges were no longer talking about well rounded kids, but a well rounded class. They wanted kids who were brilliant, masters in a single area. The kid who did a little sports, did a little theater, edited the yearbook and played trumpet in the band was out. The kid who was nationally known for something was in. The era of the pointy kid was born. Now the language comming out at open houses and in the media is shifting once more. Colleges are looking for kids who are community focused. They want the kids with a passion for service to others. Of course, it has to be the right kind of service. Don’t ask me what that is. The problem is that as soon as everyone catches on and all the kids start racking up hudreds upon hundreds of hours of community service time, the colleges will change the rules again. They need to. Because once people learn the game, the statistics no longer signal what the colleges are looking for. If everyone knows that community service is a box to be checked, it no longer truly represents sincere passion.
Further, I don’t think it makes sense to tell a kid to “be passionate.” Some kids are passionate and their lives naturally revolve around that need. But the kid who would rather spend their time in the band, the yearbook and the theater can’t magically become passionate about helping the elderly. I have no idea how to get a kid into a top 10 school. I do believe that there are enough excellent colleges available so that you don’t have to artificially twist your child into something that is not truly in his nature.
@BrianBoiler You may want to watch this video that has many similar points to your OP, and it came from an admission insider. https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/14/opinion/sunday/disobey-your-tiger-parents.html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-right-region®ion=opinion-c-col-right-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-right-region
^^^ Sorry wrong link for post #36. Here is the correct link to post #36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKARNadxshU
So, instead of trying to figure out where the admissions people will be focusing on, just concentrate on the things that admissions will always look at - table stakes. Maximize your baseline bona fides - take the most rigorous classes you can, try to achieve a 4.0 UW GPA, try to ace the SAT. Then as you approach application time access where you are and craft a college list that matches your achievements. You will find a school that works for you. Might be Harvard, might be a state flagship, might be a LAC.
All, thanks for the comments, both for and against. I think the word passion as I used it may be translated a bit differently than how some are defining the word. To me passion can include things like, “Loves to Learn for the sake of Learning” and “Wants to makes sure life is filled with work and leisure” and any other theme or belief. It doesn’t have to be righting a social wrong, designing Ultron, solving world hunger, which is where most people went.
The most important point of my post (yes only based on direct evidence of two bright kids who went through the process and discussions with various AOs on college visits) was that every section in your application should paint that picture. A non-math/science focused transcript, an essay about how you want to design the first commercial spaceship, recommendations that talk about what a wonderful painter the student is, and all conference football ECs does not show as well as one where a person’s drive/outlook on life/passion is clearly represented in their body of work. And of course, the Academic requirements of scores and rigor are a given.
I also know that there are going to be exceptions to this formula. But, for an unhooked applicant, this would be my approach to increasing your chances at acceptance. I also believe for the most part, most applicants can paint that picture if they try to. You don’t have to start this as a 6th grader. Everyone has a theme, make sure you paint that picture with your application.