<p>I've been a lurker here for a little while, waiting for someone to ask the questions I want answered, but since it doesn't seem like it is going to happen, I guess I'll just ask the first of several questions I have . . .</p>
<p>My D, a rising senior, is interested in pursuing fine art (probably BFA) in college. She would like to double major in art and business (small business/entrepreneurial studies). We toured quite a few universities on an extended vacation this summer, but we didn't talk to anyone in the art departments at these schools. We did look at the studio spaces in most of the schools we looked at, but, since it is summer, there wasn't much student artwork to see.</p>
<p>Last spring, we happened in on an open house type event at the University of South Florida where we were able to talk to the assistant dean (?) of the art department. He left us with the impression that if you weren't doing contemporary/abstract art, there would be nor market for your work. Abstract/contemporary art is not really my D's interest -- I guess she would be more of a Traditionalist? So, how would we find a school to match her art interests?</p>
<p>Thanks in advance for any guidance you may provide.</p>
<p>“He left us with the impression that if you weren’t doing contemporary/abstract art, there would be nor market for your work.”
First of all did he explain to you why he was teaching if he was so informed about what the market for abstract/contemporary art was. Seems with all that knowledge he’d be out there making the big bucks. </p>
<p>Secondly the idea of a “market” for your work belies the difficulty for most of obtaining a marketplace let alone a market. Look up the stats on artist’s income overall if the focus is on marketing.</p>
<p>I think the business degree combination is an excellent idea. I don’t think this school is a good match for your daughter. The best way to tour unfortunately in my opinion is during the school year when there’s more going on and instructors you can chat with.</p>
<p>There will probably be suggestions of Italian and other overseas programs coming shortly. Keep in mind that these programs mean no FASA aid, no grants, nada, nothing. If money is an issue stay in the US, make sure any art school programs if not in a university setting have access to student aid and grants. Try to avoid loans if the degree focus is in art. The adding of the business degree opens doors to some art administrative types of work which might be a little scarce but more lucrative than the first years of painting in a studio. I suggest avoiding loans like the plague for art students (most) as paying the rent will be difficulty enough when starting out, not to mention food and utilities. Paying off student loans will simply be out of reach and mean getting additional work hence no time to paint or make art which is why you took out the loans in the first place.</p>
<p>That is unless you’re lucky enough to land a job as assistant dean at a small / or large/ university where you CAN actually have a steady sufficient income. And then advise incoming students on what the marketplace is like, the marketplace you haven’t been involved in or actually personally ever attempted to enter. </p>
<p>Suggestions from someone who studied fine art some years ago and recently went through the whole finding a university / art school cattle call process. I repeat, the business degree combined with the art degree is an excellent idea. It will open a lot of doors and is a needed but rare combination.</p>
<p>Artsmarts, your post was informative and amusing at the same time; thanks for the laugh! I completely agree with you regarding the loans. We have managed to get our kiddo through the last 3 years with minimal loans but I still worry about those payments!</p>
<p>Miksmom, welcome to this forum! Is there any chance you can re-visit a few of the schools where your D might like if she can get the major she wants? For now, disregard what the asst dean told you. I only have experience with one art college (Ringling), and there as I would imagine in most places the students are challenged with the task of finding and developing their artistic voice, culminating in their senior show. It is truly amazing to watch! If you go on the website of any strong art department there should be samples of student work and I think the variety will astound you! I just can’t believe anyone would tell you that it’s abstract or the poorhouse! I believe it is woodwinds on this forum who has a daughter with great success as a realist painter. </p>
<p>Does your daughter want a general business degree, or does she want the degree in the business of art and design? Ringling offers the latter, and a few other colleges do as well. If she wants a dual degree in FA and BOAD, that will narrow your search and might make your life easier! Are you looking in a particular state or region of the country? </p>
<p>Something else to consider is that many kids change their major during or after their first year. If your D has a couple strong interests, it might be helpful to look at colleges that cover both just in case. A change will probably require an extra year of college, which snowballs into more expense, etc. </p>
<p>Lastly, since the asst dean’s comment is really bugging me, google Miami Art Basel (I think I have that right) and look at the work there. I believe it’s the Mecca of the art world each December, and it will give you an idea of the market! </p>
<p>Keep us posted on your search!</p>
<p>miksmom, welcome to the forum. I agree with colcon2010’s informative post. It is very important to go to school’s websites, and search for both student and instructor art. </p>
<p>Of course there is a market for traditional or classical painters. You happened to have visited a university where apparently classical drawing and painting is not emphasized. Classical painters have varied backgrounds. Some attended university art programs, others study at ateliers (my daughter did that), others study at their local art leagues or develop skills on their own.</p>
<p>I recommend your daughter identify some artists she really likes. Research where and how those artists studied.</p>
<p>While it’s certainly true that the art market is has a greater percentage of strictly abstract painters than strictly realist painters selling, most artist fall somewhere between. Furthermore, stylistic idioms differ between regions, such that Philadelphia has a strong representation painting community but it’s a different story in New york. Though, this is assuming that we are talking about painting. sculpure is significantly more difficult to practice as a representational artist, such that nearly all sculptural works in the gallery system are not figurative. Though honestly, you shouldn’t choose the kind of art you want to make based on a market analysis. “contemporary” art is about finding a unique voice and style.</p>
<p>My opinion on a double major with business will contradict the posts of others. At any school with a strong art reputation, a studio art major is among the heaviest majors as far as workload goes. It might go against any preconceptions one might have about the rigor of an art education, but what I’m saying is a certainty. Any major that is structured in the manner of a conservatory (art, architecture, music) requires an unparalleled level of focus. I don’t see a double major of any kind being a reality. Art students really are that worked. While business and art might make a strong combination, such a workload borders on what is humanly possible - especially if your daughter plans to graduate in four years.</p>
<p>Finally, I wholeheartedly agree with the advice of researching artists one admires to see how they went about their art education - though it’s preferrable if that method involves earning a degree.</p>
<p>Timkerdes, great post! I completely agree that an art education is very rigorous and does not leave a lot of time for a double major, or even much of a life outside school! After reading your post I am reminded that it would be preferable to combine the studio art BFA with a minor in business, not a double major. This is possible to do in 4 years. I would suggest to the original poster that if a dual major is the goal, that her D take as many general ed courses while in HS (college courses are more likely to transfer than AP, although of course this varies by school and is easily learned through a phone call to admissions). This will free up credits for added electives since some of the general ed requirements will be fulfilled. In my opinion it is easier to have a dual degree in art and business (major or minor) than two studio majors. Like timkerdes said, it is just too much work to carry all those studio classes. I think an art education is much more rigorous and requires much more discipline than what most of us parents probably experienced in a regular liberal arts program (or grad school for that matter)! Thank you, timkerdes, for dispelling the myth that art students cruise through college. It is exactly the opposite!</p>
<p>The advice regarding serious art students is correct. My daughter, the classical painter, drew or painted 10-14 hours a day for the 4.5 years she trained at her atelier. She says it would not have possible to get where she is today without that intense type of training. At an atelier, which is not a university, students do ONLY art–no general ed, minors or majors. </p>
<p>But your daughter needs to decide what kind of artist she wants to be. Not all areas of art may require that kind of single-focus intensity.</p>
<p>Thank you for all your thoughtful and encouraging responses.</p>
<p>I have seen that the BFA requirements are pretty time-intensive and it might be difficult to double major with the business degree. If all goes as planned, my D will have 26 hours of dual enrollment credit by the time she graduates, which should help some. I will look into a business minor. I could see her owning her own little shop (somehow related to her creative bent) someday, so I want her to be at least somewhat prepared for that.</p>
<p>Researching artists she admires and their paths is an excellent idea! I will set her on that right away. We’ve tried to find examples of student art at the various colleges, but we can’t seem to find anything for many schools.</p>
<p>We are in GA so we will definitely re-visit UGA and Auburn. She was excited about WUSTL and I think we got a pretty good feel for the school, but that would require her to (1) be admitted and (2) get good merit scholarships. We have saved money for college, but she is the second of four children and we are currently putting my oldest through college. There has to be money left over for her younger sibs! She would like to be within a day’s drive of home, and she would prefer not to be in a big city (yes, I know WUSTL is in a big city!) and would like a campus in a good college town. If anyone has any great suggestions on other schools to look at, we’re all ears!</p>
<p>Hi miksmom, I am not personally familiar with the school or how far a drive it is for you, but I have always heard wonderful things about the art program at East Carolina University in NC. I am not sure if they offer the Business of Art and Design degree but they do have a FA program. Might be worth exploring!</p>
<p>WUSTL has a good art program and their business school is very good also.
Each year the art school award one full tuition scholarship to one student and 6,000$ merit scholarship to five students.
I know one student tried art and medical and it was too hard to keep up and he dropped one. This boy is my friend’s son’s roommate. I didn’t remember which major he gave up.</p>
<p>Business is easier to keep compare med? WUSTL is very flexible she can minor either art or business. It is a good school.</p>
<p>Why don’t you consider University of Washington? Its faculty have impressive resumes and it is considered to be generally among the top universities. Its instate tuition is 13,000. I assume that it has a strong liberal arts program.</p>
<p>Another option, one I once considered myself, is the Upenn bfa/pafa certificate program. In this program you take liberal arts at Upenn and art courses at Pafa. You can probably take an assortment of penn courses - enough for a minor. It is also much easier to go to Upenn this way. The only drawback is that you pay penn tuition. I don’t know how the school is about financial aid.</p>
<p>I know you said your D was not interested in a big city, but MCAD in Minneapolis has a business type. Like colcon, I only have experience with one school, but if you look at the MCAD program, that might give you some ideas on what to look for at other schools. </p>
<p>[Entrepreneurial</a> Studies / Bachelor of Science (BSc) Degree / MCAD](<a href=“http://mcad.edu/academic-programs/entrepreneurial-studies]Entrepreneurial”>Entrepreneurial Studies | Minneapolis College of Art and Design)</p>
<p>I agree with everyone else with regards to the double major. If you are a studio art major, there is little time to sleep and eat, much less load on more courses.</p>
<p>one of the best ways is to talk to students. </p>