How valuable is prestige for grad school admissions?

<p>I'm a Canadian high school senior, recently accepted into McGill University (arguably the #1 in the country) and University of Western Ontario, a really good school, but one with a notorious party reputation. In Canada, prestige really doesn't mean much and grad schools don't care where you got your degree, as long as you have a great GPA, extracurriculars, referrals, etc. </p>

<p>However, I plan on attending NYU, Cornell, or Columbia (preferably the latter) for graduate school. What I've heard is that US schools very much take prestige into account . So my chances of getting into any of my these grad schools are only possible if I attend McGill. If I choose Western, I will pretty much be rejected from all US grad schools. Is this true? But McGill has horrible bell-curving and heavy grade deflation, and my GPA will be significantly higher at Western. On the other hand, McGill is internationally known and full of well-connected people and professors. </p>

<p>I really want to attend Western and love the school, but if attending a lower-tiered party school jeopardizes my chances of getting into Columbia, I will choose McGill. </p>

<p>By “grad school”, do you mean PhD programs?</p>

<p>PhD programs may care about how they see your undergraduate school in your major in terms of whether students from your undergraduate school in your major become successful as PhD students. Such “rankings” would not be publicly available information, vary by PhD program, and would not necessarily match the usual prestige rankings.</p>

<p>I think littlestudent is talking about master’s programs</p>

<p>I think the general answer is, one can get into graduate and professional programs from any undergrad program, but it’s easier to get into top programs from other top programs, it isn’t a level playing field. Someone applying to Ivy grad programs would probably have an easier time from McGill than from Western Ontario, but that doesn’t mean McGill always wins and Western Ontario always loses, a lot depends on the individual student, the program they are coming from, and the program they are applying to.</p>

<p>I think the best way to illustrate this is med school admissions - I believe the national average GPA for med school admissions is on the order of 3.7. For students coming from some of the top National and LAC schools, the GPA is somewhat lower, around 3.5. (I’ve been told this by the pre-health advisors at several top schools - I’ll go on the assumption they are correct.) Whether or not it’s tougher to get that GPA at the elite National and LAC schools is debatable, but one could argue that the med schools see the quality of the programs students are coming from, and so value a 3.5 from say Middlebury the same as they value a 3.7 from Flyover State. Directional State U might require an even higher GPA to be on the same level. All assuming the same entrance exam scores, of course.</p>

<p>What sort of grad program are you talking about? PHD program? Prestige isn’t really an issue and no one considers if a school is a party school or not. BUT strong departments can matter. Some PhD programs, such as in computer science, will weight gpa a bit for students coming from challenging departments. So you should think about what program will give you the best preparation. Where can you take advanced classes, get research experiences and letter of recommendation from professors you work closely with? Extracurricular really don’t figure in, unless it is really directly related. I don’t know anything about Western but it looks like a major research university considered highly ranked in the country and I can’t see that it is second rate or anything.</p>

<p>I’m talking about Master’s programs, specifically at Columbia and NYU. I’m also definitely inclined towards law school. I just feel like McGill would give me a better chance at getting into one of those, solely due to its reputation and network. But yes, Western is considered a good, solid school here in Canada, and does not have the kind of GPA-squashing grading system like McGill. However, it seems to have zero recognition in the States.
Both schools have great departments, but McGill must have earned their “Harvard of the North” nickname. </p>

<p>It feels like a huge, huge waste to not choose McGill, considering how difficult it is to get in and what a great school it is. But although I hate to say it, my gut feeling is pushing me a bit towards Western. </p>

<p>Also, I have been hopelessly lost ever since I was accepted and I appreciate all of your responses so much!</p>

<p>No matter where you go, just excel and you’ll be recognized.
If you gut is telling you to go to Western, follow it! Don’t be compelled to go to a school just because it’s more prestigious.</p>

<p>Reputation doesn’t get you into law school. Grades and LSAT scores do.</p>

<p>First, my advice is not to get set on any particular graduate school yet. You haven’t even started undergrad. Your needs may change and as they do, so may your law/grad school aspirations. Columbia or NYU or Cornell may not be the best school in the field for you, or may not have people working on research that you’re interested in. Or, in the case of law school, you may not get in but get into an equally good law school. So I think you should broaden your horizons a little bit and concentrate right now on choosing your undergrad. An eye to the future is a great idea, but I think you’re narrowing a little too early.</p>

<p>With that said, I’m a grad student at Columbia and I know graduate students here from several different departments and schools. I also know quite a few grad students at NYU (my lab is a joint lab with one down at NYU). These grad students have gone to ALL kinds of undergrads, from tiny ones I’ve never heard of to other Ivy League schools. What’s really important is their experiences - in the case of PhD admissions, it’s research experience and letters of recommendation from faculty. For business school, that could be work experience. So on and so forth.</p>

<p>I’m not saying that prestige has zero impact on your admissions, but it doesn’t work quite like “ooh shiny Harvard!” on this level. It’s more that professors tend to be familiar with the reputations of certain departments/schools and the graduates they turn out, either because of those graduates’ past performance in the department or a familiarity with the faculty of a specific department. Like let’s say in the past 10 years the department has had 4 students from Holy Cross, and they’ve all come in and been well-prepared to tackle the academic demands of the department. That department now has a favorable opinion of students from Holy Cross. But you could put any college in there - Western Washington University or the College of St. Scholastica or whatever. Now, most often the ones who get a good reputation like this are the top colleges - there’s a reason why they are top colleges, after all. They prepare their students well and professors at places like NYU and Columbia are more likely to have friends who teach at other top universities than at small places.</p>

<p>BUT I definitely have friends in my cohort and from other departments and schools who have gone to small regional public colleges, to smaller Canadian universities (Simon Fraser and McMaster are both ones that come to mind), and to tiny lesser-known LACs. In fact, I know two people who have gone to the small colleges/universities I mentioned in the last paragraph.</p>

<p>So the tl;dr is - if you really want to go to Western Ontario, go there! Have a good time, but get the experiences you need to do what you want to do. If you want law school, maintain a high GPA; if you want business school, do internships; if you want a PhD, get research experience.</p>

<p>Just as one shouldn’t go to a school because it’s “prestigious”, you also shouldn’t run away from a place because it has a reputation as “tough”. They wouldn’t let you in if they didn’t think you could do the work. And how else do you rise to the top if not by putting yourself up against the best. You need to have the ego that says I can compete on that level and be one of the ones with the top grades. You don’t make it to the major leagues by playing only A-level ball, you need to go through the competition at AAA some time. If McGill is a good fit otherwise, challenge yourself and get the grades - THAT will show you’re ready for anything. But if Western Ontario is a better fit, go there, but because it’s a better fit, not because it’s “easier”.</p>

<p>If your are aiming for the top, there are no shortcuts, and it’s going to require hard work at either place. If they’re willing to take you on, never run away because it might be “hard”. It’s going to be hard everywhere if you want to move on to the next, more advanced level.</p>