<p>Last night was Meet The Teacher Night for parents of students at our Middle School. DS is in the 7th grade Algebra class. This is the most advanced math group and replaces High School Algebra.</p>
<p>The teacher's primary message was that if the student finds the class stressful, more difficult than their other classes, needs a tutor, or spends more that 20 or 30 minutes on the daily homework, then perhaps she should not be in the class.</p>
<p>I know this teacher is trying to de-stress her students. However, any well-educated parent will know that taking High School Algebra in 7th grade is going to be more difficult and stressful for almost all of the students, that they will probably need support at times, and that it will not be harder than other classes only if you are a genius.</p>
<p>The parents of less educated parents are significantly more likely to hear this message and think that at the first sign of difficulty, they can conclude, usually incorrectly, that their child probably does not have the ability and should move down. They do not know that math students primarily succeed through hard work and not by ability (this is well researched).</p>
<p>Then, by the end of High School, there will be more discussion about why the highest math classes, and consequently admissions to the most selective colleges, are primarily comprised of middle and upper income students.</p>
<p>Tell your kids that math is harder for everyone, and they will have to work at it to be successful. </p>
<p>I don’t think high school math classes are for every 7th grader. My daughter took algebra as part of an IB program in 8th grade, and she felt she didn’t really get it all (kind of an old school teacher, and they just didn’t move through the material). We moved, so she was new to the system and to the high school, and she chose to repeat algebra (honors) as a 9th grader. Best decision she made. It meant that she did not have calculus in high school, but she’s in an engineering program now and doing just fine in calc. About half of her class has already had calc (but that’s the level they tested into) and she got 100% on the first quiz. Her skills are solid.</p>
<p>7th graders taking algebra may be too young to grasp the concepts. If they are struggling, a more basic class may be better.</p>
<p>It’s often more blatant than that. And often it’s directed at kids of color, or ALL kids in certain parts of a city, even by people who claim to want to “help” them. My older D was in an AP class with exactly one black student, who happened to be her friend. They had a very difficult writing assignment, both did poorly on it. The teacher called my home and left a message offering special help for my D (the older one is blond and blue-eyed), even offering to meet with me if necessary. She called D’s friend up to her desk and suggested that the class might be to much for her and maybe she should drop it. Can you guess which kid had the higher GPA?</p>
<p>When we were shopping around schools as our younger (black) D was about to test into K early, we met many K teachers with all sorts of backgrounds. Every single white teacher told us some version of “everyone thinks their child is gifted, don’t be surprised if she doesn’t make it.” The (few) teachers of color said something like, “Parents are the best observers of what their kids can do. Go for it.” </p>
<p>Or the teachers come down hard in disciplining a certain group of kids to “keep them out of jail later”. Or they see a kid struggle with one new concept at decide they need remedial math, or reading, etc. Swap out race for class and it’s very, very similar. It happens where I live and work all the time. Luckily we found a school where it doesn’t happen.</p>
<p>I think it’s hard to tell because so much of middle school math is just a review of what was taught the previous year. From what I’ve seen, there’s very little difference between 7th and 8th grade textbooks, and sometimes there’s even significant overlap with 6th grade textbooks. So if Algebra is the first time you’re actually doing math you’ve never seen before, it can be quite difficult. And a lot of people have this idea that if math isn’t easy for you, you should give up which makes the situation worse.</p>
<p>I’m not sure how much more this affects students of poor/less educated parents. My dad is a math professor, and I had similar issues.</p>
<p>I agree. They certainly are not for every kid. I am not suggesting that at all.</p>
<p>I am suggesting that telling students at any level that if math is difficult, or that if they need to work at it that they may not have the aptitude for it is setting up even talented kids to fail and conclude that they are not good at it. In reality, it is harder than other classes for everyone, and even the best students do need work at it. Especially at that age.</p>
<p>Life’s not fair. Bad grades and/or a poor grasp on the subject is going to do a kid any favors either. I think the teacher is probably speaking the hard truth. If a kid can’t grasp a subject, maybe he should wait a year and try again, particularly if his family doesn’t have resources to see him through a tough subject. </p>
<p>Interesting point. At our school the counselors caution kids about taking too many APs in high school. The default position seems to be that these courses are hard and you shouldn’t overburden yourselves. Yet, the better off and better educated parents tend to pshaw at this advice and sign their kids up anyway and see what happens. I have wondered if talented kids with less educated parents got scared off. </p>
<p>Anecdotally it has happened at least once. S2 is in class with a very bright kid whose folks bought that advice. The kid’s teachers noticed how talented he was and started pushing him to take more APs, but that only happened after he had spent a year or two at the school. </p>
<p>I would think that a good number of kids would struggle with algebra in 7th grade. It was hard for me in 8th grade, and I ended up majoring in engineering. I would NOT want my child frustrated at that age - he or she might get turned off of math altogether! Algebra in 8th grade is plenty soon enough to get through calculus in 12th grade.</p>
<p>I think OP is saying that some parents may hear the warning and yank their child at the first sign of trouble. And I agree that it may take a few weeks to really know if a kid is really in trouble or just needs to step up the game. Pulling a kid too soon might create problems down the road. A lot of frustration can surely be crippling. But a little frustration can actually be good.</p>
<p>I have been teaching/tutoring math for quite a few years. I think the best point that the OP is making is that math takes work. So everyone should expect to work at it. I’ve observed that “tortoises” often make more progress than “hares.” Some kids are quick at math, but they want to rush through it and don’t really master the procedures. The diligent plodders who really work at it tend to succeed. They do every problem, and ask about every one they don’t get. (While the “hares” say “Yeah, yeah, I already saw this. . .let’s move on.” Well, they SAW it, but they didn’t DO it over and over until they mastered it. So the next time they SEE that type of problem, they only recognize it as something vaguely familiar, but don’t remember how to solve it.)<br>
OTOH, some kids aren’t ready for the abstract thinking of Algebra in 7th grade. So if they are truly struggling, it is OK to step back or repeat Algebra if necessary. A solid foundation in Algebra I is so important to doing well in higher math. </p>
<p>It would help to have clearer definitions of terms used in the post above. For instance, if the math taught in 7th grade is meant to replace HS Algebra, one might wonder about the expected progression in Math starting in 8th grade. What are the students studying in 11th and 12th grade? </p>
<p>I have to admit that the message from the teacher is not farfetched. Rushing through programs for “whatever” reason is never a good idea. As an example, most of the struggles with a relatively easy tests such as the SAT can be traced directly to VERY poor foundations in math and a poor teaching that rewarded rote memorization and fill the blanks testing. </p>
<p>If a student needs tutoring to keep up in an advanced class (or a glorified version of an advanced class) he or she should NOT be in that class but in one that corresponds to his or her advancement. What is offered in 7th or 8th grade Algebra should not be complex as the subject is hardly a fast moving affair. In theory, kids with a modicum of math aptitude should breeze to a class as long as … there is a competent teacher who does more than using the Teacher’s Manual for guidance and scoring. </p>
<p>I have tutored high school girls in math several times. I feel for them - their basic skills are lacking, due to the way they were taught in middle school. Once I show them the “old-fashioned” way of dividing, working with fractions, etc., the light bulb goes off and they’re fine.</p>
<p>I drilled my older two kids in math, and they did fine. My daughter, though, was a typical third kid and I didn’t work with her as I should have. She tells me that if she’s allowed to use a calculator for an assignment or test, she uses it for ALL computations, even very simple ones like 2+2! Sigh. She had a chemistry quiz yesterday where calculators were NOT allowed. She said, “Mom, a lot of us had a hard time! We couldn’t remember how to do division!” Time for me to get on the ball with her, obviously. </p>
<p>@wasatcher “I think OP is saying that some parents may hear the warning and yank their child at the first sign of trouble. And I agree that it may take a few weeks to really know if a kid is really in trouble or just needs to step up the game. Pulling a kid too soon might create problems down the road. A lot of frustration can surely be crippling. But a little frustration can actually be good.”</p>
<p>Yes. I am not saying that the class is for everyone. I am also not saying that there aren’t kids who would benefit from dropping down a level. However, the students and parents should expect that this class will be harder and more time-consuming, by its nature than other 7th grade classes. Students finding the material challenging should in no way conclude immediately that they are just not good at it. This material is challenging at times for even the strongest students. You certainly do not want them to be very frustrated and learn to hate math. However, finding it more frustrating than some of their other classes is completely normal. It is a matter of degrees.</p>
<p>@atomom “I think the best point that the OP is making is that math takes work. So everyone should expect to work at it. I’ve observed that “tortoises” often make more progress than “hares.” Some kids are quick at math, but they want to rush through it and don’t really master the procedures. The diligent plodders who really work at it tend to succeed. They do every problem, and ask about every one they don’t get.”</p>
<p>Yes, that is the right message! Math takes work. Research shows that in the long run, the best math students are usually the ones who work diligently on their problems and practice. Too many students and parents think that math is primarily about ability. Clearly ability has a role, but diligence, effort, and patience play a much larger role.</p>
<p>@Mainelonghorn “I have tutored high school girls in math several times. I feel for them - their basic skills are lacking, due to the way they were taught in middle school. Once I show them the “old-fashioned” way of dividing, working with fractions, etc., the light bulb goes off and their fine.”</p>
<p>Yes, I also taught my kids to ignore the “new” algorithms and use the standard algorithms too. That helped them significantly. It turns out in this case that the “old-fashioned way” is better. The old algorithms became the standard algorithms for good reasons. </p>
<p>My sister and I developed a list of math concepts that were neatly divided in two. The first one was “Here is how Dad does it. Fast and efficient. No calculators needed” and the second one was "This is what you need to grab all the brownies (scores) and pretend that what the teacher taught is the best way! </p>
<p>Every once in a blue moon, we would forget the second part, and get the test or HW back with a red circle! For full disclosure, this only worked through Algebra I and Geometry. After that, the mastery of a TI83, 84, or 89 changed the rules as the graphic calculators made most of everything trivial. </p>
<p>Speaking about practice versus education, my grandfather was forced out of school by WW2 and never completed the 6th grade. He worked as an apprentice baker and pastry chef. Yet, it was truly amazing to see him calculating weights and measure in his head or with a pencil and paper. He could tell us the temperatures in Celsius and Fahrenheit within seconds. I never failed to take my HW with me when visiting him. All I needed to do was to pretend it was so hard, and the sheet was completed in a few minutes without my mother ever noticing. Or maybe she did! </p>
<p>Fwiw, I am solidly in a camp that would make the use of calculators prohibited before high school. I still get a kick when adding a few cents to a bill and see how the cashier is struggling to figure out the change without the cash register “helping” out. That our pay with a 100, and see them breaking down the bill in 5 twenties and return four bills first. </p>
<p>@xiggi “What are the students studying in 11th and 12th grade?”</p>
<p>This is not really related to the main point of the post, but it is a good question. There are about 700 students per grade in our public high school, and about 50 of them (2 classes of 25) are in the most advanced math track. Students in that track take BC calculus as Juniors (last year 47 of the 50 students received a 5 on the BC AP exam). In their Senior year they take Honors Multivariable Calculus (there is no AP for MV Calc). Some of them also take AP Statistics. </p>
<p>There is also a track that ends with BC Calculus in Senior year, and a track that ends in pre-calculus. </p>
<p>I agree that it would be better for teachers to emphasize that working hard at math is a good thing. Most kids who are put in 7th grade algebra have experienced no difficulty in math up to that point. It is good for kids to take a level of math at which they need to work and struggle a bit, so that they don’t give up when they “hit the wall” in math, perhaps in college. Of course, sometimes kids are placed incorrectly, and teachers would want to monitor whether some kids are totally lost. But, priming families to make that decision too early is probably a disservice that affects certain categories of students more. </p>
<p>There is interesting data on this in the results of the last year California gave the STAR tests (2013) [<a href=“http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/SearchPanel.aspx”>http://star.cde.ca.gov/star2013/SearchPanel.aspx</a>]. In future years, not as many 7th graders in California will take Algebra I because of Common Core, and the math tests won’t be broken out by subject. It makes for interesting data because, being California, it is a large data set with 470,000+ 7th graders. </p>
<p>Anyway, the 2013 results show that 8.7% of California 7th graders took Algebra I. Of those, 53% tested advanced and 33% proficient. The much larger numbers of kids who took AlgI in later grades did not do nearly as well. Does this mean that it is better to take AlgI in 7th grade? Of course not, though I have seen that argued for 8th grade algebra because those kids, in turn, do better than 9th graders taking AlgI. The reason, of course, is that the kids who take AlgI in 7th grade do it because there is some selection process at each school to identify kids who have mastered the pre-algebra content and are “better” at math for some reason. I’d agree with other posts that say that since algebra is more abstract than prior levels of math, it can be difficult to identify students who are developmentally ready for more abstract math.</p>
<p>Looking at statewide subcategories, about 6% of economically disadvantaged kids took AlgI in 7th and 75% of those tested at least proficient. Similarly 5.6% of Hispanic/Latinos took it and 73% were at least proficient. (The number of African-American students in California is small compared to the number of Hispanics, but 72% of those students tested at least proficient.)</p>
<p>I’d say the key is to have an accurate selection process. In our district, 99% of 7th graders in AlgI were proficient or higher, including 100% of the economically disadvantaged and Hispanic groups. However, though 8% of students took AlgI in 7th, only about 3.3% of Hispanic and economically disadvantaged students did. I guess one could argue whether it is better to over-identify into 7th grade AlgI resulting in some kids who need to retake AlgI or to under-identify resulting in under-represented subgroups being further under-represented.</p>
<p>Regarding the issue of what math to take later, in our district, dual-enrollment access is good. Advanced students could take math through DiffEq at the local community college or as far as they can go at the local UC campus (though their quarter system doesn’t mesh well with the HS semester system). Math through MVC and Linear Alg is not uncommon for “mathy” kids.</p>
<p>@sseamom "“Every single white teacher told us… everyone thinks their child is gifted”</p>
<p>My family is white, and we hear that one all the time too. The problem with that statement is that it is used to imply that we do not know what we are talking about. </p>
<p>The other comments you pointed out sound discriminatory to me. </p>