I see this all the time where I live. It’s a small population and you probably know your school board rep personally. The board, the superintendent, and the principles are all terrified of parents. So you get a lot of kids in advanced classes who really don’t belong there (and end up doing poorly). I know this well because my DW teaches honors English at one of the high schools, and it’s packed with students who are just plain average and in some cases outright stupid. The entrance requirement is a B in the previous year, and grade inflation in that year is high.</p>
<p>So I wonder if OP’s kid’s algebra teacher was responding to similar circumstances, knowing from experience that a lot of students really don’t belong there. I still share OP’s worry, though.</p>
<p>While algebra 1 is generally harder than typical middle school math, you need to consider the students being placed into algebra 1 in 7th grade (two years ahead). Such placement is based on being a top student in math, so, for those students, algebra 1 is probably an easy A.</p>
<p>Actually, I agree with the teacher. In our district, about 25 percent of 7th graders are in Algebra (which is an 8th grade standard in our state.) It’s really not that uncommon. What this teacher is saying is that in her class, a student shouldn’t be spending hours a day on homework as she’s not intentionally assigning that much work. If you have to pay a tutor because your child is struggling, then they either don’t yet have the foundation to succeed in that class or they just aren’t wired for it yet (and even brilliant kids who found math easy in the early years and will again in later years can struggle with algebra if they get to it before their brain has matured enough for it.) </p>
<p>Remember, this is a class for “advanced” kids… not kids on a typical trajectory. It should be challenging but if it’s overwhelming then often, with algebra, just waiting for a year of overall growth is enough to make it a “healthy” challenge (and getting to algebra in 8th grade is still on track for calculus before college.) She’s there to teach students who are ready for algebra and if she’s having to spend an unusual amount of time reviewing for kids who aren’t quite there, it kills the purpose of the class.</p>
<p>As to how it compares to other classes… generally, a child on the advanced math track in our district tend to be in the honors level for their other classes too. Math homework really shouldn’t take more time than an honors level research project on the civil war, for example. If Algebra is hurting their overall performance in school then waiting a year might be exactly the right move since 7th grade algebra is a choice, not a requirement.</p>
<p>@ turtletime “What this teacher is saying is that in her class, a student shouldn’t be spending hours a day on homework as she’s not intentionally assigning that much work. If you have to pay a tutor because your child is struggling, then they either don’t yet have the foundation to succeed in that class or they just aren’t wired for it yet (and even brilliant kids who found math easy in the early years and will again in later years can struggle with algebra if they get to it before their brain has matured enough for it.)”</p>
<p>Well, I have to smile at this. You did exactly what the better educated parents do. You changed what she actually said a bit so that it now makes some sense. The problem is that poor and less educated parents are less able to do that.</p>
<p>Additionally, kids with more educated parents don’t usually need a Tutor because they can just ask their parents to explain the quadratic equation, or how to expand a polynomial. Many poor parents would need to get a tutor to answer the same questions. Then the teacher tells the parents that only their kid needs a tutor, so their kid must not belong in the class. </p>
<p>@TheGFG, you misunderstood my point. ^Your last point would not apply in our district. Those with 90 minute blocks would typically have math class every other day and would cover twice the material of a 45 minute class, whose students would have class daily. The homework given should be exactly the same, except that in the shorter class it would be given in the form of two halves rather than one larger assignment. In our district a student taking algebra or geometry in middle school has 90 minutes of instruction <em>every day</em>–7.5 hours per week of class time. Actually, I think algebra1 in high school also gets a double block because it’s considered kind of remedial at that point, but kids taking geometry in high school are on the every-other-day 90 minute schedule you mentioned, so they have half the instructional time as the kids who take it in middle school. Teachers tend to use some of the extra time to have the kids start on homework in class. So, it should be possible to assign a much lighter homework load under such a schedule.</p>
<p>"While algebra 1 is generally harder than typical middle school math, you need to consider the students being placed into algebra 1 in 7th grade (two years ahead). Such placement is based on being a top student in math, so, for those students, algebra 1 is probably an easy A. " You’re assuming that expectations for other middle school classes aren’t dismally low. Try again.</p>
<p>I half agree with what the teacher is saying. I’m a Junior and was put on the same math track your child was put on. I’m taking AP Calculus (AB) now. I never repeated any classes, (Although I probably should have looking back) but I’ll just tell you what I think about it.</p>
<p>A 7th grader in Algebra 1 should only move on in math if they get A’s in the class. I would repeat if your child gets a B. The reason I say this is because if they get a B in Algebra 1, chances are they will get a B or a C in Algebra 2. In Pre Calculus, they might even fail the class. I’ve seen this happen to many people I know who got B’s in Algebra 1 and Geometry in middle school, then when we got to 9th grade and had to take Algebra II/Trig Honors (Which is much more difficult) they got C’s or even D’s in some cases. Even some people who got A’s in Algebra 1 and Geometry got C’s in Pre Calc Honors last year as sophomores. Of the 30 or so students who were put on the advanced math track, I really only think 7-8 should have been put on it. All 30 students are extremely smart, but most of them just weren’t ready and should have taken Algebra 1 in 8th grade, even if they are getting B’s in the higher math classes, I think they could have gotten A’s if they waited a year to start Algebra.</p>
<p>Now, If your child seems to be getting A’s easily in Algebra 1, then keep him/her on the advanced math track. But if he/she seems to consistently struggle with the class, I might have him/her repeat it in 8th grade, then let him/her continue on with math. You can still take AP Calculus as a Senior if you take Algebra 1 in 8th grader without having to double up math classes.</p>
<p>Just make sure you know what your child is capable of, if he/she is capable of doing this, then more power to them, but if they are struggling, then they will be in a world of hurt when they get to the higher math classes in high school.</p>
<p>@RHSclassof16, this is exactly my observation and opinion as well. But I don’t know of any kids who got a B in algebra as a 7th grader (and I’m sure there were plenty of them), who repeated it in 8th grade. That’s why we have a bad situation in the high school when those kids show up unprepared for Algebra2. Why take a bright student and turn them into a struggling B/C student by pushing them beyond their maturity and capabilities? This is what I see happening in our schools.</p>
<p>@MaineLonghorn Well, I know of some people who took Algebra 1 in 7th grade and don’t take math Senior year.</p>
<p>7th grade-Algebra 1
8th grade-Geometry</p>
<p>9th grade-Algebra II/Trig Honors
10th grade-Pre Calculus (They usually don’t take honors Pre Calc when they don’t plan to take Calculus)
11th grade-AP Statistics
12th grade-No math.</p>
<p>I’m not saying I think that’s a good idea for anybody to do, but I know kids who have done this.</p>
<p>@Mathyone Yes, my school district was like that. They have the last 2 years cut down on that though fortunately. My year there were 27 students who were in Algebra II/Trig Honors as freshman (3 people retook Algebra or Geometry), but this year I heard there were only 12. (The class 2 years below me) So fortunately they are being more strict about who they let into these classes.</p>
<p>On the flip side of that, I just did say how it’s possible to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade, not repeat any classes, and not take Calc in high school. But I’m curious to know how the math track in your district goes, because at my school, you can take Algebra 1 in 8th grade and still take AP Calculus as a Senior without doubling up.</p>
<p>The 2 year advanced math track usually goes like this</p>
<p>7th grade:Algebra I
8th grade:Geometry</p>
<p>9th grade: Algebra II/Trig Honors
10th grade: Pre Calc Honors
11th grade: AP Calculus (AB)
12th grade: AP Statistics and/or AP Calculus (BC)</p>
<p>The 1 year advanced math track would go like this (If the student takes Calculus, a lot of the students on this track take AP Stats instead if they don’t plan to major in anything math related)</p>
<p>7th grade: Math 7
8th grade: Algebra I</p>
<p>9th grade: Geometry
10th grade: Algebra II/Trig Honors
11th grade: Pre Calc Honors
12th grade: AP Calculus (AB)</p>
<p>“How could you do algebra 1 in 7th grade and not get to calculus as a senior??” I already answered this.</p>
<p>7th grade - algebra I</p>
<p>8th grade - geometry</p>
<p>9th grade - algebra II</p>
<p>10h grade - algebra II rehashed with trig</p>
<p>11th grade - precalculus</p>
<p>12th grade - AB calculus. You do get to this. But you don’t finish the year of calculus that is standard for top students in better high schools. Our top students are forced to double up or take summer school if they want to finish calculus. The next 40% or so of students take algebra1 in 8th grade and they do not reach any calculus at all.</p>
<p>When I was in middle and high school, that did not happen. Those (few) taking algebra 1 in 7th grade were top students in math who got easy A grades in that course (and subsequent math courses through middle and high school).</p>
<p>If a 7th grader in algebra 1 is struggling to get a B or C grade, then it is likely that s/he was inappropriately placed in too advanced a math course.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Seems like your high school has low standards for math, or perhaps is dealing with a lot of inappropriately advanced students who are struggling and need to slow down in algebra 2 and more advanced math.</p>
<p>The more standard high school math progression is:</p>
<p>9th grade: algebra 1
10th grade: geometry
11th grade: algebra 2
12th grade: trigonometry and precalculus
college: calculus, if needed</p>
<p>For students good at math:</p>
<p>8th grade: algebra 1
9th grade: geometry
10th grade: algebra 2
11th grade: trigonometry and precalculus
12th grade: calculus AB or BC</p>
<p>For top students in math:</p>
<p>7th grade: algebra 1
8th grade: geometry
9th grade: algebra 2
10th grade: trigonometry and precalculus
11th grade: calculus BC
12th grade: more advanced math at a local college</p>
<p>@much2learnI completely agree. There are so many pieces to this puzzle.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>You have parents pushing their kids forward into math classes that don’t necessarily fit.</p></li>
<li><p>You have very different types of classes being taught under the title “Algebra I.” Some are much harder than others and some teachers are much better at teaching than others.</p></li>
<li><p>You have many kids coming into the class too ready to give up at the first sign of difficulty. </p></li>
<li><p>You have higher level math classes overwhelmingly populated by boys, who are more willing to believe that this is something they can master than girls, who seem to believe that the fault is inherent in them (“I’m just not good at math”). </p></li>
</ol>
<p>It’s one thing if the kid is clearly out of his depth. If that’s the case, of course it’s best to step out of the class and come back to it at the right time. But sometimes that advice is really misplaced and sometimes that’s not immediately obvious. </p>
<p>H and I are pretty educated and solidly middle class and the sequence outlined by the OP isn’t out of the norm in our experience but it definitely is an advanced track. In middle school and again in high school, we heard horror stories of the difficulty involved in the honors math sequence. We heard words like “abusive” and “insane” and “gpa killer.” The school gave pretty much the same spiel as what much2learn heard. We were warned that only math geniuses could handle the work of the accelerated track and no others need apply-- if you couldn’t hack it, it was your inability standing in the way. So, educated and middle class notwithstanding, we were ready to pull our daughter out of the track. She decided, against our advice, to stick with it. I should note here that it’s not only less educated and poor parents who are intimidated, overwhelmingly, it’s parents of girls. I’m embarrassed at how easily I was cowed by the rhetoric.</p>
<p>Not only did she survive but she went from being a girl who would describe herself as bad at math to a girl who says she can’t believe she thought the problems she tackled back in middle school were hard. She wouldn’t describe herself as an intuitive math genius but she’s not afraid of it either and she’s quite intent on pursuing higher level math in college. I attribute this to an amazing teacher who believed that her kids could handle the tough class if they wanted to and if they put in the time to do it. She had no patience for those who thought it should come easily, that’s true, but she created podcasts and afterschool drop in meetings (that the entire class attended) and would meet any student who wanted extra help. D started off very frustrated and very unsure and spent her fair share of time sobbing over impossible problems. A year into the program she was laughing at the impossible problems, knowing full well that they weren’t impossible but they were really, really hard and that she wasn’t alone in finding them so. </p>
<p>It takes work and practice. You build muscles by working at difficult problems. You learn to tolerate frustration and to come at things from different angles. The key is having a commitment to the process and sticking with it, with the understanding that it might take a lot of time, especially at the beginning, and you might not soar through effortlessly. </p>
<p>Those are likely American-born, immigrants who left before 6-7 years of age, or academic laggards in their countries of origin. </p>
<p>With the exception of the last, most Asian immigrants who spent most of their elementary school years outside the US before immigrating had a much more solid grasp of math concepts and ended up coasting for several years at the most advanced tracks offered in US schools. </p>
<p>One older HS alum and his older brother who came to the US after 7th grade and 5th grade in the ROC(Taiwan) found they didn’t learn anything new in math until they entered our STEM-centered public magnet. </p>
<p>Moreover, even after coasting for several years, both breezed through the advanced math curriculum and felt it was one of their easy A subjects even though their academic/career interests were non-STEM based. </p>
<p>I also knew an older Japanese student who had a gap in his schooling from around 11-12 until 15 or so because he was expelled and barred from further schooling in Japan for being involved in a schoolyard fight. Upon coming to the US to finish his education*, he found he was easily able to adapt and sometimes, even provide academic tutoring to middle/HS students based on what he learned in Japan up till 7th grade. </p>
<ul>
<li>Thanks to a wealthy Japanese benefactor who felt he deserved a second chance to finish his education and an indiscretion at 11 shouldn’t be a barrier to that. A good thing considering he was disowned by his family and had been working several years in various unskilled odd/factory jobs to make ends meet.<br></li>
</ul>
<p>"Additionally, kids with more educated parents don’t usually need a Tutor because they can just ask their parents to explain the quadratic equation, or how to expand a polynomial. "</p>
<p>@much2learn - LOL. DH has an MBA and deals with numbers all the time at work however going back and remembering how to explain a quadratic equation or how to expand a polynomial is not going to just magically come to him. However we could pay for a tutor if necessary and some kids have parents who can’t.</p>
<p>Well at my school it is quite interesting how the gender gap in math is. Yes, on the two year advanced math track i would say the ratio of boys to girls was 2:1, AKA about half as many girls were put on this track as guys.</p>
<p>As I said before, I think maybe 7-8 students who were put on the advanced math track (Algebra 1 in 7th grade) were actually read and able to succeed doing so. (By getting A’s consistently up through High School in math) and even though half as many girls were put on this math track, I would say almost all the students who I think were actually ready to take Algebra 1 in 7th grade were girls. Almost all the top students in my math class are girls. Of the 7-8 that were ready, I would say 5-6 are girls, 2 are guys.</p>
<p>The guys who are getting A’s in my math class are mostly the guys who are a year older (Seniors) and were put on the one year advanced math track. (Algebra 1 in 8th grade)</p>
<p>There are a couple of theory’s I have for why this is</p>
<p>1) I don’t know the science behind this, so if somebody does please debunk this if this isn’t true. But it’s believed that girls generally mature faster than guys do, therefore maybe girls are more able to handle Algebra 1 at the younger age because there brains have matured faster and a lot of the boys’ brains haven’t matured enough yet.
This is why many of the boys who are smart at math seem to do really well on the one year advanced track.</p>
<p>2) The girls who weren’t intimidated by taking an accelerated math track were the ones who were very confident in there ability and the girls who would have done bad backed out before even trying.</p>
<p>3)Just a coincidence that my school happens to be this way.</p>
<p>“Isn’t this a sign that many kids in the 7th grade algebra class weren’t ready for it?” Of course it is. I’ve heard all kinds of stories about how they were unable to apply simple algebra in subsequent courses. But when you have an administration in place that isn’t willing to say no to parents or to tighten standards when there are obvious problems down the road, this is what you get. Perhaps the teacher cited by the OP has similar feelings about their program. I think a lot of parents simply aren’t aware how important a firm grasp of algebra1 is. They also apparently don’t realize that once you start the track of high school math, the difficulty keeps ramping up and if you can barely handle year one, you are headed for trouble down the road. The students are tracked by 5th grade teachers and I have to think that they don’t follow up to see how the kids they put in algebra are doing several years later. With a weak administration, and with parents either unaware or unwilling to let Johnny be behind Susie in math, the only thing that can be changed is the course progression itself. </p>
<p>I actually don’t have a problem with putting a lot of kids in algebra1 in 7th grade because it can be hard to judge who can handle it, and certainly many people don’t like the idea of kids being held back if they want to do something. I just think there needs to be an expectation that kids who don’t do A level work will repeat the class with no shame, and that high standards will be enforced.</p>