<p>
[quote]
It's still unbalanced, since he has more income potential than I do just given the nature of what each of us do for a living. I made more at the very beginning and then he caught up and surpassed many times over.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Yes but the income and wealth within a marriage not when it's starting out. I was referring to disparity in income when starting out.</p>
<p>
[quote]
"If it's important to date someone who has a similar economic family background, then that tells me that the poor kid who winds up at Harvard better just date another poor kid, and the rich kid at Harvard better just date another rich kid. If you feel otherwise, that it's ok for the poor kid with loans to date / marry the rich kid with no loans even though their situations are unequal, well, then say so!"
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I agree with BC that there is a different between marriage and dating. I might date a guy who smokes, but definitely would not marry one even if there is a potential he could quit smoking.</p>
<p>A quick question because I heard it mentioned in this thread a few times. What does kowtow mean? I have never heard that term before.</p>
<p>Be subservient to another.</p>
<p>I did not know it comes from a Chinese word
[quote]
kowtow Definition
kow·tow (ko̵u′to̵u′)</p>
<p>noun</p>
<p>the act of kneeling and touching the ground with the forehead to show great deference, submissive respect, homage, etc., as formerly in China
Etymology: Chin k'o-t'ou, lit., bump head
intransitive verb</p>
<p>to perform a kowtow
to show servile respect (to)
[/quote]
</p>
<p>"I did not read this clearly. But I think you knew of his income potential as an MD. So it's delayed earning more than unbalance in income potential. I think it's not the same analogy as the $250K and $25K example given earlier."</p>
<p>It's still unbalanced, since he has more income potential than I do just given the nature of what each of us do for a living. I made more at the very beginning and then he caught up and surpassed many times over."</p>
<p>Pizzagirl do you really want us to believe that his delayed earning potential did not factor in your decision to marry?</p>
<p>I have seen many parents and kids going gaga and googo about the prospect of marrying a medical student.</p>
<p>
[quote]
What prejudice do I carry? I was stating what would be my choice. We all have choices in life just like picking a college: LACs, Universities, TTT, Ivy league.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>No one said it wasn't your choice. It is, however, prejudice. You wrote off a lot of people -- prejudged them -- based on whether their upbringing/status/earning (potential and actual)/whatever a match for yours.</p>
<p>This thread is getting out of control. The question simply asked , "How would you feel?"
It has turned into personal attacks when the whole point of the thread was to share a wide variety of responses regarding individual feelings. If you're fine with your child taking on the $100,000 debt of someone else, good for you. If you're not fine with it, you are just as entitled to feel that way. Whether others agree or disagree--that's their choice but it's just wrong to attack people for having a different point of view on this subject. This is why I stopped responding to this thread a long time ago.</p>
<p>I haven't read this whole thread, so apologize if I repeat something thats already been said. While my first knee-jerk reaction to the OP's question is that if I had anything to say about it (and I don't, but I can dream), I'd prefer my kids not start off married life with someone elses' debt. That said, there are a lot of factors that go into this. Since one of the most common causes of divorce is disagreement over finances, I'd hope that they and their future wives have the same general outlook on finances and how they are handled. My older s is a very, VERY careful shopper, and finds great deals. He worked throughout college and has saved up a nice nestegg. He is very careful with his money. I can see him falling in love with someone who is academically-oriented, and might have a lot of student debt from college or a professional school. However, I can't see him finding himself attracted to someone who spends money recklessly and has other (eg large credit card) debt. I do kinda feel the way the OP does, truth be told. We are fortunate to have our kids leave college without debt, and would prefer they not pick up someone elses problem. I have had several relatives (uncle, BIL) handle money very poorly, and I cringe at the thought that it could happen in my kids marriage.</p>
<p>Younger son is more carefree with his funds, though fortunately not reckless. However, I do have concerns that he will not be as diligent with his financial management as older s is, and if he marries someone with a lot of debt, I am not sure if he'll be as skilled at how to manage that as older s seems to be. Plus, he wants to go to med or pharmacy school so wil be looking at his own debt to deal with. I cant imagine a young couple starting off married life saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. I can't imagine what it would take to get out of that.</p>
<p>I recall in college those girls who seemed to be going to school only for what we called their "MRS" degree. They weren't interested in a career or profession. They were interested in being a wife and mother and married, hopefully, to a successful, wealthy man. To me, being that vulnerable (ie no great employable skills to fall back on if one suddenly finds themselves divorced or widowed with inadequate life insurance) is just scary. </p>
<p>My older s was dating a very sweet girl for a long time, but she was also very dependent. That finally got old. I think ultimately he'll marry someone who is more independent, driven and self-sufficient, and that personality style may lend itself to having a similar outlook on financial management.</p>
<p>So, while not all debt is equal, it sure would be nice to have it at a minimum when one is starting out in life.</p>
<p>Haven't read the whole thread. But I have read enough articles about how a newlywed can be blindsided by their beloved's sub-par credit history to think that it's sensible to know what your intended's attitude towards money is before getting married. College debt is only one part of that picture. I'm unclear on what happens to college loan obligations incurred before marriage if the couple then divorces. Since that's the one type of loan that can't be forgiven in bankruptcy, it might be worth dealing with this in a prenup. </p>
<p>There was an article in the Atlantic Monthly last year where some writer said that marriage was basically a nonprofit organization :) which the spouse and I are still finding hysterically funny, because it's so true. Too bad that things like backrubs and volunteering to pick up a kid at midnight from a party don't figure onto the balance sheet.</p>
<p>
[quote]
No one said it wasn't your choice. It is, however, prejudice. You wrote off a lot of people -- prejudged them -- based on whether their upbringing/status/earning (potential and actual)/whatever a match for yours.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>The kind of work I do, I do not meet anybody but engineers and business people. I don't know where I go to meet other people like artists and sculptors. I don't know how to include or preclude them. If that is prejudice, then it is prejudice.</p>
<p>Don’t do it! Love is powerful and above all, but you get the whole package when you marry someone! In a community property state like NM and TX, you may get into lots of trouble with this person. What if your spose owed a few hundred thousand in loans? You may not be responsible for the debt they brought into the marriage, but what if they default while being married? That is “New” debt that you may be responsible for. I had to think it over long and hard and said "No’ to marrying a person in “out of control” debt. It stinks to loose someone you love, but just think of the hardship filled life you may live being with this person who you love so much! Money does come between relationships. What do you do, just say screw the debt and pretend that it doesn’t exist? It will come back to you. What happens when all her money is going to her debt, and you have to pay the rent or mortgage, pay for her car when it breaks down, and for food and entertainment? She wants to share in dreams and where your money is going, but doesn’t contribute! It’s coming out of your pocket. Those loans will always come first! The way you want to live, or the way you want a relationship to go financially will never happen! Then, you may be called “cheap” or “tight” or labeled “abusive” and so on, when you really do have her best intentions at heart. Money problems show in many ways and are often disguised as other relationship problems. Then you go to a therapist because he or she has low sex drive, or there is poor communication,or she drinks too much wine, or is depressed, or you are depressed and can’t figure out why, and so on. Maybe the problems are her/his debt! You can’t solve everyones problems, and will take on her or his problems if you get married! That’s just the way it is. Small debts are way easier to handle than large, unmanageable debts where that person is always scheaming and trying to find a way out of debt. A few thousand bucks, 10 thousand bucks,… no the craziest thing to marry this person. Two people can put their resources together to conquer the debt. 50K, start looking at how she lives her life and if you want to take it on. 50K is much more after interest! 50K can be 100K after interest! Good luck and take care of yourself!<br>
So should you marry her/him? Read what I said! No way!</p>
<p>Interesting to read the last three pages of posts here after a bout with a pretty strong recession. A lot of debt stinks when unemployment is high.</p>
<p>Then there is the Tiger Woods story.</p>
<p>When I met my DH
He didn’t have school debt but
he had a car (with payment),
3 Visa creadt cards (max’d)
and no cash…</p>
<p>I had no debt,
had a car without a payment,
had 1 credit card with no balance
and about 10k in the bank…</p>
<p>I recall my parents being concerned too…because marrying meant better/worse/richer/poorer…etc til death do us part…</p>
<p>Shortly after we married,
we sold his car and paid the loan,
and worked to get his credit cards paid off…
My 10k went into the bank and helped us to have a downpayment for a house
…we lived on PB & Js etc </p>
<p>Suze Orman and many financial advisors say that money matters bring more marriage to divorce than other issues…</p>
<p>so besides things like talking about
careers and where to live
kids–when, how many, and does someone stay home to raise them or do they go to daycare…etc
Financial issues, debt, how each partner handles money, spending habits, …
…are things couples should be discussing…before marrying so when it it all mutual/marital property etc…there aren’t surprises.</p>
<p>I don’t think I could focus on much else if I had so much debt… How long does it take to pay off $100,000 in loans-- plus interest? If you wait to marry until that debt is paid off you’ll just about be ready to retire and then you can live with your beloved on social security-- if there is any!</p>
<p>Well, I had a whole good response planned out but my boyfriend’s mouse killed it, so I have to start over.</p>
<p>We will have about 90k when we graduate, most of mine private loans and all of his stafford loans. And then I’ll be going to law school and, barring any sort of scholarships, I’ll be paying for that with gradPLUS loans. Scholarships are not out of the question, but i know realistically I cannot plan for them. It kind of sucks, but it was the only way we could go to college, and I wouldn’t marry someone who wasn’t college educated unless they had some sort of phenomenal back up plan with evidence it was working out. When we first started dating I wasn’t really reading his mail to find out about his debt, and I am not about to leave someone I care about this much unless there is a reason we cannot manage this debt, and I don’t believe this is the case. We do not expect our quality of life to raise from what it is now for some time now. No matter how much money we make we intend to live like we make minimum wage, or close to it, so that we can pay down our debt-- that’s just what we believe the reality is when you owe so much money. We do not share the entitlement to our parents standard of living right out of the gate like many of our peer do, and really I think the paradigm of getting married, buying a nice house and moving in, and popping out a few kids right away just isn’t realistic for this day and age for a lot of people. We are working and saving money now and working to establish credit so we’ll be able to move if we have to after graduation, and we are saving so we’ll have a safety net. Before we get married we intend to do a lot of research (moreso than we have already) and see a financial planner as well to help us figure out and agree on realistic short term and long term goals. Any major disagreements will be settled before we get married or we won’t be getting married. Disagreements will pop up along the way, but we’ll just have to handle those like any other couple. I know most of my debt will be forgiven after 10 years, so that helps. While I am in law school, BF will be working in his field and making payments on his debt. It’s not going to be easy, at all, but I believe that as long as we continue to be vigilant about managing our finances, and remember to manage our marriage, too, we’ll be okay. It’s not going to be easy, probably ever, but that’s okay. I am not prepared to walk away just because it’s going to be hard. If we had different visions for our lives or if we had higher expectations, then it probably wouldn’t work out, but i don’t think that’s the case here.</p>
<p>I really don’t think it’s the amount of debt (TO A POINT) so much as it’s the behaviors that led to the debt and the behaviors that are or are not going to lead to the debt being paid off someday. If we were a bunch of shmucks spending all our money on new clothes and beer and not saving anything, I don’t think we’d be fit for marriage any time in the foreseeable future. But we are very responsible with what we are making right now. We have been together two years and gone out on maybe four occasions total, because we know we really can’t afford an entertainment budget, nor do we need one. We are blissfully happy with staying home and watching Canadian public access television instead of cable (we were both raised on it!). I have a hard time believing we are unquestionably destined to fail when less prepared people than us run to the altar every day. We have challenges unheard of by most couples, I concede that, but I don’t think there’s any reason to believe at this point that we can’t do it. There are plenty of challenges to marriage, money-- while a big one, is only one part of it.</p>
<p>ETA:</p>
<p>That said, his parents are seriously concerned about the fact that I have genetic health issues and don’t want him to marry me because they don’t want nearsighted, asthmatic grandchildren, and my parents don’t want me to marry him (sort of) because they think his parents are nuts. Those are the only worries they have voiced thus far. 
I am sure my parents are worried about my debt–they nearly forced me to drop out of school rather than cosign my loans, I would assume his are too, but I think everyone is acutely aware of the reality of the situation and nobody expects that we’ll be marrying into rich families waiting to support us. All they can do is teach us how to be responsible and how to live good lives even when you are wanting, which is one thing my parents have always been good at.</p>
<p>That’s the most naivete’ in one post that I’ve seen for quite some time.</p>
<p>That’s okay, you’re young.</p>
<p>And that’'s the most deadening cynicism. Somehow, despite very large student loans, my H and I, who like TxK and BF, never cared much about “stuff”, managed to pay off our loans, raise two wonderful kids, send them to college, and live a comfortable life.</p>
<p>How naive we were to think it possible.</p>
<p>I guess I should just start collecting cats and romantic comedies and accept that is the only love I will ever have because I am too poor? Believe me, that’s been considered too. haha</p>
<p>TxK–I applaud your sense of humor. It’s surprising how far that can get one!:)</p>