HS Senior with 4.0+ only wants to go to community college and play video games

Parents Forum
21

<p>Get Loren Pope’s first book- Beyond the Ivy League- and read about why you shouldn’t push your kid to go to college if he says he isn’t ready. Your kid will win. He or she will flunk out. Let the kid work at a job, if he can find one- it will probably pay minimum wage, and decide for himself that college sounds like a better deal. Make him pay rent and follow house rules about chores and responsibilities.</p>

<p>And it sounds like you and your ex should show a little maturity and start talking to each other. Are the two of you fighting out your old battle with him in the middle?</p>

22

<p>Since we also recently had a very bright, occasionally surly senior son, I am going to post some more. I had to work to recall basic dog training: small, immediate corrections and big,immediate rewards. </p>

<p>I gave up grounding teens. It does not produce behavior improvements. Instead I might say “I am furious! I need you to clean the upstairs toilet before you go out with friends!” and then I would march outside and pull weeds. It was important that I leave the scene (We raise debate team members in our house and they will follow you around, bellowing their viewpoint). The outrage was real but the correction was really small (compared to what other teens get). Once the kid followed me out and I said “if you are going to be out here, you should pull weeds too.” Last time he followed me out. I have pulled weeds in the pouring rain – and come back in to “Sorry, mom” and a (kinda) clean toilet. </p>

<p>A huge part of a male senior’s year is to become a man – which he isn’t if his mother is haranguing him. Consider two scenes"</p>

<h1>1 Mom nag, nag, nag, nags on Eagle Scout project. Scoutmaster calls. Son has to be short and negative to show he’s his own boss.</h1>

<h1>2 Mom says “I realize I am very proud of you. I have fixated on getting that Mom’s Eagle pin because I see how proud moms are of those. I need to let that wish go and respect you as you are. I am going to grieve a bit because this is a hard thing for me to let go. I’m going to go shopping and when I come back, I promise I will not mention the Eagle project again.”</h1>

<p>Son feels a) relieved and b) amazed and c) jubilant and d) a bit guilty.
If Mom holds up her end, then when the Scoutmaster calls, son MAY (and may not) be open to some further work. It is now HIS project. Not momma’s. </p>

<p>One of the best things I did was to say “it seems a car is important to you. Let’s work on getting you a car.” I scoured want ads. I scrambled my schedule to help him get a parade of clunkers into our mechanic. I paid for most of the mechanic checks. He paid as much as he could and I paid for the insurance for the clunker that finally passed the mechanic. It was a real and huge message that he was turning into a man and needed a man’s tool of transportation. If the car hadn’t worked out, I was ready to work on getting him and a pal to some far destination (NYC, London?) on a trip by themselves. (and, no, we don’t have a lot of money). </p>

<p>I also got a lot of mileage out of correcting my message. Instead of saying “Let’s talk” which caused him to hunker down negatively, I began to say “My mother’s paranoia is kicking in. Let me talk at you for a few minutes.” That tickled his sense of humor and he would listen. </p>

<p>When young males need less mothering, they act pugnaciously. The temptation is to rush in with more mothering. The clever thing is to back off. At the same time, one has to stand firm on some things. Your son is using your fear. When he scowls that he’s getting good grades, he is implying that if you push him, then he’ll run away and live under a freeway overpass in a cardboard box (or something else equally dreadful).
So, one has to say “I have my limits for my household. If I do my job right, you will yearn for freedom and be out of here in June 2010. I would prefer you were in college, but I will respect you no matter what your choices. Meanwhile, for my house, here are the limits.” If you go to the mat on a few things but are generous and tolerant otherwise, how can he help but respect you?</p>

23

<p>'He goes into withdrawal if we put 4 year college apps in front of him (he won’t lift a pencil, pen, type in a single blank field, read instruction manuals."</p>

<p>At this point in his Sr year, my son was just as intransigent! I think your son will “get with the program” once he hears all the talk at school about" where are you applying?’ etc. etc.
Since he has shown himself to be a great student, and I take it has a full course load this semester, what if you were to ask him if he would like it if you were his college application “secretary”, and offer to do the mindless “grunt work” required on each application- filling in name, address, subjects taken, grades, SAT scores, bla, bla bla, all of which takes a lot of time but require no thinking on his part? That as opposed to just “dumping” the applications in his lap and saying “well???” Just a thought. It worked to help relieve some of the stress at our house, and gave me something to do besides nag him about college applications, which didn’t accomplish anything.</p>

24

<p>“It’s a simple case of addiction.”</p>

<p>What does that even MEAN?</p>

25

<p>

</p>

<p>Sorry, I don’t think this is good advice. I’ve seen far too many young men come to college, get overwhelmed, and stay in their rooms 24/7 playing video games. (And these were kids who did not engage in this behavior before they got here.) Most did not survive the first semester. </p>

<p>I think playing video games excessively is a symptom of other problems . . . it’s an escape. (Some friends and I got hooked on Civilization when we were writing our dissertations . . . escape from the pressure!! Luckily, we were mature and goal oriented and knew to delete the d**n game from our computers so we could get work done. M&Ms then became my “drug” of choice to deal with the pressure!)</p>

<p>If you can’t get him to cut back on his own, therapy is a good idea. But you’ll need to get his other parent on-board. Otherwise, he’ll just flee to other parent’s home and play games.</p>

26

<p>"ince he has shown himself to be a great student, and I take it has a full course load this semester, what if you were to ask him if he would like it if you were his college application “secretary”, and offer to do the mindless “grunt work” required on each application- filling in name, address, subjects taken, grades, SAT scores, bla, bla bla, all of which takes a lot of time but require no thinking on his part? "</p>

<p>I did all of that for older S, who got into 5 colleges, including getting virtually full merit aid to one, and then he went off to the college of his choice and flunked out because although he was very smart, he was too immature to bother going to class.</p>

<p>My suggestion with the OP is to let her S know that after high school, he will be welcome to live at home only if he’s in school fulltime or is working, following house rules for adults, and is paying rent.</p>

<p>If he then chooses to go to community college full time, fine as long as he also follows house rules.</p>

<p>I also suggest that the parents establish now what gpa he’ll need to maintain in college to get their financial support. If he will be expected to work during the school year or summer to help with his college expenses, let him know now. It’s not unreasonable to expect a college student to pay for their entertainment expenses, car and clothes, for instance. The parents also need to be willing to stand by what they have told the student to expect.</p>

<p>That didn’t happen last summer when instead of getting a job, the student was allowed to play video games all summer.</p>

27

<p>Is the game in question World of Warcraft? I played that for a while–just a few hours here and there, nothing toxic. I got bored with the game quickly. But I can see why it’s so easy for people to be sucked in to the point where they have no outside lives. </p>

<p>People make online friends in the game when they’re a low level character, but if they want to keep gaming with those friends they have to play for the approximately same amount as their friends every week–otherwise their friends will be a much higher level and they won’t be able to adventure in the same areas of the game. (They are divided by level. A level 1 character who strays into a zone with monsters for level 30 characters quickly dies.) So one might say the “pace” is determined by the person who plays the most. So someone who, on their own, might choose to play only 3 hours a week feels pressure to “keep up”–especially since some parts of the game are almost impossible to clear on your own.</p>

<p>You might think this pressure would disappear once a character reaches the highest level (which I think is about 70 these days?), but it often becomes worse because people often join raiding guilds (online clubs within the game.) Guilds often “schedule” raiding (ie times when multiple players game together.) Sometimes they raid a couple hours a night, sometimes–and this is the part that seems really crazy to me–raids that take the whole weekend. Basically spending the whole darn weekend killing virtual monsters, aside from breaks for sleep and food. This can be EXPECTED, as in “Dude, you HAVE to come to the raid this weekend, you’re one of the only priests we have and we NEED you to heal everybody.”</p>

<p>So this is why online gaming is a harder habit to break than a single-person game. There is a form of socializing, so the player doesn’t feel deficient in that regard. If the player is shy or has real world troubles, this form of socializing may seem “safer” in that pushing a button can end the interactions, as opposed to real life when you have to push on through. Also, once friendships are formed there can be a sense of obligation to continue so you don’t let down your new friends.</p>

<p>I wish I could tell you some magic fix that will make your son wake up to the fact that World of Warcraft is basically a giant time sink, but I don’t know. Some people just wake up one day and realize they’ve spent 40+ hours a week doing nothing productive, some hit rock bottom in terms of losing a job or becoming unhealthy, and some people don’t have a problem to begin with. I guess I would start by trying to find out why he is playing. Is it because he feels WoW is his new “social group”, is it because he’s trying to hide from something in the real world, is there some other reason? Whatever you do, I would NOT send him away to college without sorting this issue out first because there’s a good chance he will spend all his time playing WoW and drop out. It happens all too often.</p>

<p>If you decide to limit his time online, I would knock out the weekend times first. If he is indeed involved in a raiding guild, this may break his involvement with them.</p>

28

<p>S also had issues with gaming. (NMF, “didn’t want to go to college.”) I did everything parents are told not to do–I played nagging secretary to force/help him get applications in. I packed his stuff for him when it was time to leave. He’s a happy senior now–very much into academics. He still plays games, but his interest in them has diminished year by year. Forcing S to apply worked in his case, but you have to know your kid. Since he was young, I noticed that “pushing” this kid was almost always a successful strategy and probably what he needed. Pushing other kids could totally backfire.</p>

<p>So much can happen between fall and spring of senior year. Maybe you can get your S to apply to at least one or two 4-year colleges–So he will have options if he changes his mind about CC–which he may very well do when he hears all his AP classmates talking about their college choices. (I used this line with my S–“Just get in a couple applications, because you don’t know how you’re going to feel in the spring. At least you’ll have some choices if you change your mind. . .” S reluctantly agreed that was “reasonable.”)</p>

<p>S’s friend flunked out of college and his parents allow him to work part-time (fast-food) and play WoW at home the rest of the time. I would never allow that, but I think those parents had worse issues with another child of theirs, so they are just waiting for this kid to “grow out of it.”</p>

29

<p>

</p>

<p>Olymom: LOL! I was on the debate team in HS and I’m sure my Mom had the same thoughts. I’m sure she smiled when I told her that perhaps I was insane to suggest mock trial for my S. He’s done it since HS and man, when he gets going in an argument, God save us all.</p>

30

<p>Naturally–your explanation of how Wow (and other games like this) sucks people in is
very helpful.</p>

31

<p>Olymom, great posts! Wise but also very funny. I’m sure that that humor helped you a lot with your surly son :slight_smile: Our garden needs weeding and I expect to see our daughter out there later today!</p>

32

<p>I’m a gamer…and I’m 50. I tend to think that “addiction” is an overstatement…there is no possibility of physical addiction to video gaming. It’s more a compulsion, a mental desire to play all the time, than a physical addiction. Yes, gaming can interfere with a person’s ability to live a healthy, happy and productive life, so it can be destructive. </p>

<p>Your son demonstrates a bit of sense in this scenario, in that at least he understands his priorities and isn’t asking you to pay a zillion dollars for him to go to a big name school where he’s not under your thumb and he can play an unlimited amount until he fails out. Since many school have pretty much unlimited wireless access it’s easy for kids to game 24/7 if that is their desire.</p>

<p>When I first started playing the MMORPG that I play, I had friends who were in HS and college. Many spent way too much time on the game. Only a few dropped out but I considered those few a tragedy. I’m known casually as the “server mom” because I lecture kids about their responsibilities and priorities in the game all the time, lol. BTW, my kids played also and for the most part our friends thought it was completely awesome that a mom played and we hung out together and did things together in the game. It’s a great way to monitor what and when your kids are involved in online, it’s being part of their virtual lives as well as their real lives.</p>

<p>I agree with those folks here who said that he will outgrow this issue. I recommend you limit or eliminate his access to the game when he is in your home. In the long run, it will help him to realize he can live without the game, because he has to. I know even for me, that once I’m away from the game, for work or travel, I remember that I enjoy other things in life besides gaming and I am not compelled to go back to it.</p>

<p>BTW, for perspective, I’ve been playing this game for five years but I barely play anymore. There were times when I played every night and for many hours on weekends. (While working full time and raising teenagers.)</p>

33

<p>My cousin, loved, loved, loved gaming. My Aunt never used the word addicted - so I don’t know how pervasive it was. Anyway - my cousin was a good student, but did not want to do the whole college route. She got a job at GameStop and went to CC for 2 years. She took basic general ed courses and computer design/graphics -while still gaming. She is now in her 2nd year at digipen <a href=“https://www.digipen.edu/about[/url]”>https://www.digipen.edu/about&lt;/a&gt; and she really has found her calling.</p>

34

<p>My younger son (HS Junior) is one of those kids who is so bright it almost scares you. We unfortunately bought him one of those hand held video games to entertain him during his brothers baseball practices/games. We became concerned and took it away from him - I think he was about 8 at the time. Shortly thereafter I saw him sitting alone in a dark room and I asked him what he was up to. He said “since you won’t let me play my game, I am just sitting here playing it in my head” Yikes!!! </p>

<p>Fast forward 8 years. He still loves those games and if we didn’t control it I think he would do them 24/7. Part of me thinks it is an addiction and the other part wonders if because his brain operates a such a higher level that he is mentally challenged by the strategies in these games. i.e. building empires, developing economies, war strategies, etc.</p>

<p>He does have high education goals, but after reading these posts I think it is time to cut the video stuff WAY back. </p>

<p>Why, why, why can’t someone invent some high level games geared around AP classes/ACT/SAT. You know, like you can’t get to the next level until you solve some calc problem or properly identify an 18th century peace treaty.</p>

<p>I wonder if the online game playing makes it more addicting? I do worry about kids playing at college and not studying. My older son will play the hockey or baseball ones, but only for about a half hour at a time and then takes off to do some real physical activities.</p>

<p>Great topic…</p>

35

<p>

</p>

<p>My S learned a lot of history playing Age of Empires. In fact, his essay was about how Age of Empires led to such a love of history that he decided to become a high school history teacher!</p>

36

<p>Yes, I think the online aspect does make it much more compelling to play 24/7, because you’re in a social setting, often with a community (guild, linkshell, whatever it’s called in their game) that shares goals and experiences and overcomes adversity together. It can give them a feeling of strength and power and an opportunity for competition.</p>

37

<p>and you were there, Barrons?</p>

<p>Boy I am out of the loop- & I was excited about Davy Knowles and Back door slam at the Croc.
;)</p>

<p>I think if something is interfering with the basics of living and survival- jobs/school- friends- food- exercise- community involvement, then it needs to be addressed</p>

<p>Regardless if " other household" has different rules- I couldn’t respect myself if I allowed behavior that I had a big problem with.
Its one thing if it is another independent adult, but for a dependent child- you don’t allow it.
Boundaries are there for a reason- some just need to bounce off them a bit first.</p>

38

<p>No, I park at the Convention Center and saw them all. The sign said–sold out.</p>

39

<p>Your son does not belong in a college environment right now. Seek the help that so many have suggested and deal with those issues first. It is a mistake to make your dreams for him shadow the good judgement that you have. Listen to your heart and best of wishes to you and your son.</p>

40

<p>With both my boys, I’ve found that they gravitated most toward WoW when they were struggling with their social/extracurricular lives. When they are happy with their non-school activities, they spend less time on the game.</p>

<p>So I’ve come to see WoW as a symptom, rather than a cause.</p>

<p>Regarding college – in the OP’s position, I would insist that my son apply to an academic & financial safety in case he changes his mind about the community college come next spring (when all his classmates are excited about going off to college). And I would limit his WoW time, in hopes that doing so would get him out into the world again.</p>