HYP Admit: Local Scholarship Shutout Fair?

Parents Forum
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<h1>1 posts reads to me that OP's HS is pretty average. Maybe 0-2 kids/yr to Ivy, 0-2 kids to top 25.</h1>

<p>We and kid found that the nonmonetary awards were somewhat embarrassing especially when he didn't put that much effort into studies. We are the sort that true effort should be rewarded. Like the kids who worked to help support the family, who worked for college tuition whose family were lower incomed, who were not as "smart" but worked hard. </p>

<p>The kids who got the PTA awards and the Service Club awards, deserved the awards. Our kid who was #1, bunch of activities, glowing recs, got into top 25 college (but not Ivy, he tried) simply did not deserve or did he get the local cash awards.</p>

102

<p>I didn't mean to say that every award is based solely on need, it means that they will always consider it if presented. If it comes down to making a tough choice between 2 kids, then the fact that one has presented greater need is going to definitely influence that choice.</p>

<p>In other words, a service organization is NOT "need-blind". I was responding to the posters who seem to think it is "unfair" if need is considered when it is not a stated criteria for the award, whereas it seems rather obvious to me that the deserving + financially needy applicant presents a stronger case than the deserving + no need student. So it seems very plausible to me that a member of a committee might contact a high school g.c. and say "we have a hard time deciding among several candidates... can you give us some insight as to which kids have the greatest financial need?" </p>

<p>So yes, I think it will always be a factor that will be considered in appropriate cases. It is very likely that if the committee was talking to the GC about need it was because they wanted more info about that particular factor, and given the likelihood that other student applicants were headed off to colleges that do not have aid policies comparable to Harvard, I think whatever info the GC gave the committee was quite accurate. If he had posted that somehow Harvard did not live up to its promise ... then maybe it would have been an unwarranted assumption. But the bottom line is that the info OP posted at the outset shows that the information was correct -- so what's the objection? </p>

<p>Eight years ago my son was admitted to his first choice college -- a school where he had his heart set on attending -- but even though he qualified for need based aid, they said their financial aid budget was exhausted and they could not offer him anything. That particular college had an all-or-none aid policy -- either they met full need or gave no aid, but they promised that if he did enroll he would get his need met in subsequent years. So in order for him to attend that first year, we would have had to come up with $30,000 -- money that would be impossible for us. </p>

<p>So I sat down with my son and told him that the only way he could attend would be if he could find outside scholarship money. I gave him an application form from a local charitable agency. We knew from talking to the college financial aid people that we were looking to fill a $15-20K gap -- the amount of grant money he would have been given if the under-endowed college had the funds. </p>

<p>That is what need is often about: the student is attending a college that will not or cannot meet their demonstrated need, so the student has to rely on outside sources. </p>

<p>In my son's case, about 10 days later he got an offer from another college that was very generous, so he simply opted for the college that was willing to meet his need. He could have still applied for the outside scholarship, but at that point we were appreciative of the college grant and, with changed circumstances, we wanted to see the agency funds go to some kid who needed it more. </p>

<p>I am not saying that kids who attend 100%-need meeting colleges should be barred from applying to outside scholarships -- of course they can apply. But I've seen the same scenario that I described with my son played several times on these CC boards. Some kid gets into a college with a financial aid gap they cannot bridge, and the CC parents rally around with help & suggestions while the kid works very hard to line up scholarships & look for summer employment. </p>

<p>I think "fair" means that there will be help for those kids who have to rely on outside sources. I think that whenever anyone asks for free money, from any source, then the money must be accepted on the terms set by the giver.</p>

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<p>Most of these local scholarships are holistic in the way the recipients are chosen. Otherwise the stats could be put into a computer to get the results. Therefore, recommendations and anything that the school, particularly the GC would have to say is heavily noted. The GC and all others involved in future money allocations should be advised to be careful what they say about financial need and other issues. It really is too easy to say someone needs money more than someone else without knowing the full picture. Speculation should be watched. Need is not a criterion for a number of scholarships, but there is no limitation on what criteria should be taken into account when it comes down to the awards. That is how many local scholarships are run. Perceived need is indeed an issue.</p>

104

<p>re post #73:</p>

<p>""MHO, the guidance counselor--if asked by the committee--should have refrained from offering estimations of need because it is highly unlikely that s/he actually knows."</p>

<p>We don't know that the GC did the above. "</p>

<p>That's why I appended "If in fact s/he did it."</p>

<p>I agree. We don't know.</p>

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<p>I have a question for those who sit on committees for local service organizations, like the Lions: are the applications anonymous, or do you see the names?</p>

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<p>It depends on the organization.
I've sat on committees in which the applications were anonymous. This is usually not possible for organizations that don't have paid help because to take the names off the applications can require a lot of tedious retyping and coding. The committee members typically are doing enough work by reading apps, interviewing candidates and making the decision and attending any awards ceremonies. </p>

<p>I remember once I served on a committee judging hundreds of essays submitted for a scholarship tied to an essay contest. Even though the essays were coded and typed, I still was able to recognize one by a student whom I knew. The content of the essay is what tipped me off: He wrote about an experience that I happened to have volunteered with. (Incidentally, he didn't win. His essay appeared to have been dashed off at the last minute. Later, his teacher told me that's exactly what he'd done! Apparently, he'd heard I was on the committee, and assumed that he'd be a lock to win if he wrote about that experience.)</p>

<p>Most organizations that give scholarships have enough difficulty finding volunteers to serve on the scholarship committees, something that takes more time and effort than most people would realize. The organizations also may not wish to code applications because if committee members know candidates, the organization can find that a plus.</p>

107

<p>According to the OP, his father got inside word from the committee about a comment the GC made that impacted the decision. In a case like that word should be made to the committee, and the GC that such comments should not be made unless the financial situation is known. Though Harvard is known for its generous packages and endowment, no one can presume that the award was sufficient for the family to pay the costs without strain. And no one knew what those strains were or the situations of the other candidates. The comment was out of line for that reason.</p>

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<p>"And no one knew what those strains were or the situations of the other candidates. "</p>

<p>There's also a possibility that the GC spoke about the financial situations of the other applicants or those applicants included or indicated such info with their application. </p>

<p>For instance, I've seen committees that favor students who have worked because the committees assume that such students probably need money, and are willing to work for it, not just look for scholarships.</p>

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<p>You see the names, at least on the committees I've been on.</p>

110

<p>Many of the scholarships at our HS clearly state that they favor kids who have held jobs. (Of course, the kids who have held jobs may not have been saving for college, but that's another story.)</p>

111

<p>OP ought to have applied to PRinceton. From the info given using the Princeton calculator, it looks like the required contribution would have been substantially less than 10,000.</p>

112

<p>My S, the top student in his class, applied for 8 local scholarships and received 4 of them. He did not apply for the one that set parameters for financial need that were below our income. All of the committees knew that he would be attending Stanford, which has excellent FA for middle income families. The local organizations that want need to be a specific component of their application make it quite obvious from the outset.</p>

<p>Only one of the groups disguises the names of the applicants when they consider the applications.</p>

<p>In general, our groups favor excellent students with lots of ECs and at least some leadership. Most kids getting the $ don't work too much or at all in outside jobs.</p>

113

<p>glad,</p>

<p>Similarly, at our local h.s., at least 2 recipients of major local scholarships were bound for H and P, and if those students had any financial need at all, they certainly hid it well inside their palatial homes and foreign cars.</p>

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<p>bay: Our committees have less to fret about, since there are no palatial mansions in my town, mostly just old split-levels and tiny bungalows like ours.</p>

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<p>glad,</p>

<p>Sorry, I did not mean to insinuate anything. Just relating that at least several of our local organizations also awarded scholarships that were apparently not based on financial need. Congratulations to your S! I am in favor of need-blind merit scholarships, btw. I just have a problem with organizations which do not specify that they are need-based, and then use need as a criteria. Very inconsiderate to applicants, imo.</p>

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<p>bay: I heartily agree that committees should be crystal clear about whether scholarships have a need component. Thanks for the congrats!</p>

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<p>Many community scholarships are do not have need as an explicit requirement. However, it can play a role in who gets what.</p>

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<p>


But in this case we don't know what the "full picture" is and what, in fact, the g.c. knows. The important issue is that "full picture" includes the other scholarship applicants. For all we know the g.c. could have spent hours with some other tearful, frustrated student in their office, distraught over family circumstances and very limited resources. GC's do hear the worst cases, so even though the GC may not have looked at the OP's bank account, the GC may be very, very aware of the dire straights of some other student. And since we also don't know the context of the conversation, there is no reason to assume that it didn't come up as a result of the GC outlining the needs of one of the other kids. </p>

<p>From the GC's perspective, I think it is also relatively safe to assume that the kid who has come forward presenting legitimate financial barriers for college financing is likely to have greater need than those who haven't, simply because people who seriously need money are likely to speak up about it and ask for help. Keep in mind that this info comes up in many ways -- for example, my d. went to her g.c. in November to request fee waivers for her college apps. These waivers are on a form that require the gc's signature and at least some inquiry into family finances. Other students might have sought out the gc's help with filling out a FAFSA. In our state, teenagers must also get a work permit from their high schools in order to hold down a job -- one more nexus where the student might be discussing financial need with school authorities. So by virtue of the position, the GC is likely to hear about the cases with the most significant need.</p>

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<p>Of course we do not know exactly what transpired. Nor does the OP, as much of this is hearsay for him. However, what was stated here is a remark the GC made about the OP. Also stated was that those awarded were not more needy. All of this may, or may not be true. However, the comment by the GC was not warranted according to the OP. I don't think it is a big thing to caution GC and committee members about making statements about family situations or college awards on presumptions alone.</p>

120

<p>At our HS there are roughly 50 community/memorial/local organization scholarships given out to seniors annually ranging from $1,000 to $5,000. Most are not need-based. Most require an application with essay, recommendation, resume and an interview. Kids are rewarded for their character, accomplishments and goals. Most everyone here feels it's generally a fair process and that the kids who are selected are deserving. Sometimes a kid will win 2 or 3 of these awards. Historically, many top ranked kids with little need have won many awards because they demonstrate leadership and epitomize volunteerism as well as academic excellence. Can't begrudge them that.</p>

<p>GCs should help not hinder this process by being forthright. Anything tantamount to gossip should not be tolerated in the process. Deservedness of an award should be solely based on the candidates applications and how well the criteria are met.</p>