<p>This is the way the OP describes himself on another thread. If his scholarship applications basically highlighted his high gpa, high SAT and acceptance from HPY, then that may have been why he didn't get the scholarships.</p>
<p>" . I took the ACT last spring and scored a 35 but didn't take the essay part (which Stanford requires). On the June SAT I got a 2200 (740 CR, 740 M, 720 W, with a 10 essay), which is a lot lower than my ACT score. (I do have a 33 ACT score w/ essay score of 10 from sophomore year.) I just took SAT 2s in October so I don't have those scores back yet. I am ranked first in my class and I have taken all the APs my school offers.</p>
<p>My extracurricular activities are OK but nothing amazing -- lots of sports, NHS, some volunteer stuff. I am a NM semifinalist. My essays should be OK."</p>
<p>Most local organizations don't give scholarships based just on gpa/test scores. They want to support students who have contributed to the community in major ways, something that having high stats doesn't reflect. Students who have done major community service, were top SGA officers, captains of sports team (preferably a championship one) tend to be the type of people who such organizations sponsor. It's an added bonus if the student is going to attend college locally (because the organization would think the student is likely to remain in their hometown and may be a future employee or productive member of their organization) and has need.</p>
<p>On another thread, the OP also said that no students had gone to Ivies from his school in 15 years. That probably helped boost the OP into HPY because such colleges like attracting capable students from areas that are underrepresented. It doesn't, however, mean that scholarship sponsors from his town would prefer assisting him to a capable student who'll be attending nearby state U.</p>
<p>We sat out the scholarships that stated that need was a requirement. Were we naive to think that it wasn't for the ones that didn't say that? And here, you have to be a child of a Mason to get the Masons scholarship and pretty much all the kids in contention for the service awards are active in the community. I guess I just am left wondering when the same couple kids get the lion's share and they live in the fancy part of town and take fabulous vacations.</p>
<p>Marita, I have never seen anything but the best of intentions in any of the committees where I have served that have chosen kids for awards or scholarships. I think when comments are made during the selection process, it is done to help, not hinder. However, one thing that this thread has highlighted to me is that the accuracy of some of these statements needs to be questioned at times. Often a remark is made on an assumption. I think in the OP's particular situation, a huge injustice was not done, but it could have been, had there been some outstanding financial issues that were not known in his family. He mentions that the other kids who did get the award were from families of greater income than his--who knows if he is stating the full picture of them. Lots of assumptions. </p>
<p>Our son got merit awards that had nothing in the apps that requested financial situations, so I assume that they truly did not take much consideration to that factor. As we did not apply for financial aid, that was a strong indication of no need, and there were no questions about any need. At the end of the process, my son did ask if for awards were possible due to the fact that he had comparable schools offering more. Admissions called me to ask for financial info, filing of FAFSA,and I firmly told them that it was not an issue of need at all, but of parity and value. They did come up with more funds. I know kids who truly have need and have appealed have not gotten a red cent more, or kids with large loans in their packages asking for mercy, similarly denied. So there are times when awards do not have need associated to them. But local scholarships have always had somewhat of a holistic process, the personal touch is what they want, and perceived need can play a role in it. The only suggestion I can make is that anyone who is on such a committee or board should perhaps tell everyone on board that comments should only be made if they are sure it is true. I know that in my situations, we did not check the veracity of the small talk and comments of the sort that the gc made.</p>
<p>Twomules, I just checked online to a couple of different Masonic scholarship brochures, and they clearly stated that need is a component of all their scholarships - perhaps that differs in your state, but at least in general it seems to be very important. </p>
<p>I honestly don't remember seeing much available locally for my kids to apply for that wasn't based on need and/or strong community service/leadership credentials, except for a couple of arts-based awards available for my dancer daughter. (which she didn't get in any event)</p>
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I honestly don't remember seeing much available locally for my kids to apply for that wasn't based on need
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<p>Ditto this experience in our community.</p>
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But service organizations and charitable associations have a mission to fill, and their scholarship money goes to further that mission. And that mission is always some iteration of "serving the needy" or "helping others."
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<p>Our PTA, which would probably be defined as a "service organization" and is certainly a charitable organization, awards several scholarships each year. The evaluation criteria includes about 12 factors, none of which are "need" in any sense.</p>
<p>Need should be listed if it is a criterion. Many times it is not, but is a consideration. If need is a criterion, there has to be definition, threshhold and a fair way to assess need. When you start throwing factors like other scholarship/need packages that the student has gotten, it gets pretty murky. </p>
<p>I don't think you can make assumptions that just because someone got into HPY that they have been taken care of financially. I have a friend who was hit very hard with his son's Harvard costs. No financial aid because they did not fit that criteria. However, the family had their retirement and income based on owing realestate holdings. No go as far as financial aid. They fell into one of those pockets where they were putting themselves on a financial limb by spending what a Harvard education costs, but did not qualify for aid. I know a number of families in that situation. That's why people should not make presumptions on who needs the money more unless a system is in place to assess that need, and even then there are situation that fall into the cracks.</p>
<p>I agree that people who serve on scholarship committees only have the best of intentions (heck, I've served on scholarship committees for more years than i can count--I could refuse to do so, but I feel an obligation to the applicants). </p>
<p>I totally agree with your post 86. That was the only argument I was trying to make.</p>
<p>D1 received several local scholarships and also from LAC. None were based on financial need. We don't qualify for any FA. She only applied to those based solely on merit/volunteer service. All local were from service organizations. Each had different things they were looking for...overcoming obstacle, playing a sport, being involved in athletics/arts/academics. These scholarships are out there...you just have to do your homework. None asked for any financial information, just an essay!</p>
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His parents are expected to pay $10K and for whatever reason they plan to borrow, but that $10K is far less than most people in that income bracket are paying for their kids to attend 2nd tier pubic colleges. The point isn't that they have no need, the point is that it is very obvious that other families probably have MORE need.
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<p>I do not think this is obvious at all. If OP's parents need to borrow $10K per year for OP to attend HYP, then we are talking about $40k in loans. This is not insignificant, and certainly could be more than other scholarship applicants are looking at in loans.</p>
<p>"Our PTA, which would probably be defined as a "service organization" and is certainly a charitable organization, awards several scholarships each year. The evaluation criteria includes about 12 factors, none of which are "need" in any sense."</p>
<p>I'm guessing that's because the active PTA members and officers wanted their kids to be considered for those awards. From what I've seen in such organizations (and I've been the president of one), the parents most likely to have the time and interest to be heavily involved tend to be well educated and relatively well off. They are involved in order to help their own kids' education and opportunities, so aren't as likely to consider need when awarding scholarships as would service organizations whose members aren't likely to be in line for the scholarships.</p>
<p>The PTA officers' students also tend to have high averages and to have strong ECs. Part of this is like parent, like student. Other reasons are that involved parents are more likely to stay on top of their students to get high grades and have strong ECs. Some schools also reward parent organization offices by choosing their students for special opportunities. This may or not be deliberate. Because the parents are around a lot, the teachers and administrators are likely to know the students more than students with uninvolved parents.</p>
<p>(H and I were exceptions as a parent organization officers in that our sons were slackers whose in school ECs weren't strong.)</p>
<p>"I know that in my situations, we did not check the veracity of the small talk and comments of the sort that the gc made."</p>
<p>It would be difficult to verify such comments without having families feel their privacy was being invaded and their personal business was at risk of being spread around the community. I don't think that most families would be willing to share their tax info with members of local service organizations.</p>
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Quote:
<a href="But%20service%20organizations%20and%20charitable%20associations%20have%20a%20mission%20to%20fill,%20and%20their%20scholarship%20money%20goes%20to%20further%20that%20mission.%20And%20that%20mission%20is%20always%20some%20iteration%20of" title="serving the needy" or "helping others.">i</a>*
Our PTA, which would probably be defined as a "service organization" and is certainly a charitable organization, awards several scholarships each year. The evaluation criteria includes about 12 factors, none of which are "need" in any sense.
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The HELPING OTHERS part means that if need is not a factor, then the beneficiary of the scholarship better be a leader / contributer / giver in his or her own right. </p>
<p>I have said this over and over until I am blue in the face, and while Northstarmom clearly knows what I am talking about, the intransigence of others lead me to believe that there there are a lot of clueless people out there. </p>
<p>If you are asking a service/charitable organization for $$ and you can't how the world will become a better place because they gave you that money, you aren't going to get it.</p>
<p>By the way, I have twice in my life asked for money from my kid's school PTA -- once when I needed help to pay for my son to go with his class on his 8th grade week-long camping trip right after my ex husband left, and when I couldn't pay the cost of all the AP exams that my d. was required to take by her school policy. Both times I made it clear that I was short of money and needed help, and it was given. There were no written "policies" about need -- I had to ask to even find out that there were funds available to cover these sort of things, and I would not have humiliated myself by asking if I it wasn't hard for me to come up with the money. I am sure that anyone who truly needs help does not need to be told how or what they have to say to get it. </p>
<p>Bottom line: if you don't already KNOW that it helps to specify areas of need in order to get money, it probably is because you don't really need it.. Those who do need it will generally come forward and say so on their own.</p>
<p>I think your question about how such processes can be improved to be more fair is really the crux of the matter, Marita. Difficult to say.</p>
<p>Northstar, I have never served on any selection committee where any of my children were up for consideration. In fact, I do not serve in the years when my children could be up for consideration. However, again the human factor does weigh in when kids of parents who have served an organization well are up for consideration. I am not saying that any of those kids were not undeserving, in fact they are very much deserving. But there is an effect when you know the families. To be more fair, the committee should comprise of those who do not know the players. That way the applications can stand on their own. But that is not the way most local organizations work.</p>
<p>Well, I, too, am blue in the face. I am well aware that lots of small town scholarship committees operate in ways that make me shudder: whom you know, guesswork, etc... Just because something is widespread does not make it right. I'm not out to change the world; just a little corner of it. If things did happen as the OP states they did, it would be a good idea for the GC to be made more aware of the ramifications of guessing at the resources and financial situation of applicants.</p>
<p>Applying for a scholarship is different from going to the school principal or the PTA for specific needs for a specific purpose. I don't see the relevance of calmom's story. We contributed every year my kids were in school to the school fund so that others could go on field trips, etc... The needy kids did not have to have high GPAS, they did not have to write an application, do an interview, etc... All they had to show was need (easily determined since so many were on F/R lunch).</p>
<p>Anyway, there are clearly folks who are satisfied with the status quo as regards the distribution of scholarships. Fine with me. I'm done.</p>
<p>OP had better get acquainted in being disappointed. Its going to be a new ballgame at his new school and adventure. He/she will discover the world of politics, influence, wealth, and aggorance.</p>
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I have said this over and over until I am blue in the face, and while Northstarmom clearly knows what I am talking about, the intransigence of others lead me to believe that there there are a lot of clueless people out there.
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<p>Count me in as one of your "clueless," as apparently I have not read a sufficient number of your 5,364 posts to know why you are blue in the face.</p>
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Bottom line: if you don't already KNOW that it helps to specify areas of need in order to get money, it probably is because you don't really need it.. Those who do need it will generally come forward and say so on their own.
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<p>I guess I am learning a lot from you calmom. Our h.s. puts on an award ceremony near the end of the year, at which they publicly announce and recognize scholarship recipients. Stupid me, I clapped away, under the mistaken assumption that these students had accomplished some amazing things that were being rewarded by the donor organizations. Apparently, they are actually announcing to the world that these students are in financial straits. How humiliating.</p>
<p>"To be more fair, the committee should comprise of those who do not know the players. That way the applications can stand on their own. But that is not the way most local organizations work."</p>
<p>Your point is well taken. In some cases, the local organizations could do what you suggest, and they do follow such policies. IN some cases, the local organizations could do what you suggest, but don't follow such policies because the people active in the organization were active to get personal benefit for themselves. For instance, the other parent organization at my S's high school offered a scholarship that each year went to one of their board member's offspring. They had no selection criteria. Somehow, they also got the school to donate this scholarship money. This same organization thought that the school should be giving them money. They didn't realize that their purpose of a parents organization is to raise money and provide service to the school. </p>
<p>There also are situations in which it's not possible to find committee members who don't know applicants. Unfortunately, most people won't volunteer for such duty. Sometimes, too, towns are so small or applicants are so well known that it's not possible to find someone without personal knowledge of the applicants.</p>
<p>I know, Northstarmom. It does make it difficult. Though I do not serve in the years when my kids are even eligible because I know to many of the kids, and too much outside info, it is still not a blind situation for me, as I know many of the families just having kids in the school/activity/community. Though my kids, who just are not top students, have never been eligible for any of the awards, there is still that prejudice factor there.</p>
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Stupid me, I clapped away, under the mistaken assumption that these students had accomplished some amazing things that were being rewarded by the donor organizations. Apparently, they are actually announcing to the world that these students are in financial straits.
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Try going back and reading the words I typed after "or" very slowly. Maybe you will get it. </p>
<p>EITHER financial need OR "the beneficiary of the scholarship better be a leader / contributer / giver in his or her own right. " </p>
<p>OR both.</p>
<p>What part about the word "or" don't you get? What part about "leader / contributer / giver" don't you understand? </p>
<p>Again, these service organizations exist to do good; they want to make the world a better place; they want to help the needy and subsidize others who will further that mission. If they can achieve both goals simultaneously, so much the better. But if the scholarship application doesn't show need, and doesn't show what the student has done / will do to help others, then it is not going to meet the agenda of what the service organizations want.</p>
<p>I understand what "or" means, no need to be patronizing. But look back at your post #76. You said this:</p>
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When money is given by a service club or charitable organization, need is ALWAYS a factor.
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<p>That sounded pretty unequivocal. Then you changed your edict to add the "or leader/contributer/giver" part. This is where my understanding of your point became a little cloudy.</p>