<p>Hypothetical Situation (there isn't much) for chances at Harvard:</p>
<p>Hispanic Male from Texas
UT
Majored in History</p>
<p>GPA is a 3.9
LSAT is a 169</p>
<p>I'd say it's worth a shot.</p>
<p>Chances good?</p>
<p>wait...isnt 169 a good score??</p>
<p>its not 25th percentile is it???</p>
<p>and a 3.9 is below 25th percentile?????????</p>
<p>im so confused...i mean thats like barely even one b right?</p>
<p>what do u have to do to get into harvard????</p>
<p>oh...and if anyone could help me out...what extracurriculars would be good to participate in while in undergrad for a good shot at the top 5 law schools?</p>
<p>are ec's important?</p>
<p>should i participate in the dance team even though it may take up a lot of time?? i mean, will it look good on a law school application??</p>
<p>please give as much help as u can..
thanks so much!!</p>
<p>169 is a great score (literally - wonderful), but we're talking HLS here.</p>
<p>I read his gpa wrong in the original post. A 3.9 would put him solidily into the inner-quartiles, but a 3.9 is below the median for accepted students from his school (ivy feeds ivy - I have to overcome this hurdle as well)</p>
<p>I actually have to agree with M&B. AA based on skin color is absurd. Because of the Hispanic thing, he does have a shot, whether he deserves it or not, I don't know.</p>
<p>
[quote]
A 3.9 would put him solidily into the inner-quartiles, but a 3.9 is below the median for accepted students from his school
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</p>
<p>Excuse my ignorance, but from where did you get that information?</p>
<p>search this board - it's on here somewhere because I remember reading UT-austin's pre-law student stats (I was reading everything I could about law placement when I was trying to decide between UM and Brown). The only reason I remember them is because they were slightly below Michigan's (and Michigan's average into Harvard was around 175 and 3.95).</p>
<p>You have to keep in mind that those inner-quartiles are taking into account the tons of Harvard and other elite school applicants that (very) slightly drag down the average admit stats (if only because so many are admitted).</p>
<p>The average admit rate from an individual school is much more telling.</p>
<p>
[quote]
and a 3.9 is below 25th percentile?????????</p>
<p>im so confused...i mean thats like barely even one b right?
[/quote]
</p>
<p>There is more to it than that, I think. Only 44 out of 30,000+ students from UT - Austin matriculated this year in Harvard Law School. I would be willing to wager that nearly all of those students were either in Plan II, Business Honors, or engineering.</p>
<p>In contrast, the median GPA of students admitted from Georgetown is 3.82.</p>
<p><a href="and%20Michigan's%20average%20into%20Harvard%20was%20around%20175%20and%203.95">quote</a>
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</p>
<p>Wow! Good luck, though I still think you have a spot:)</p>
<p>
[quote]
<a href="http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/detail/0,2034,12364_html_690,00.html%5B/url%5D%5B/quote%5D">http://www.lsa.umich.edu/lsa/detail/0,2034,12364_html_690,00.html
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</a></p>
<p>Well, hopefully I smoke the LSAT and legacy gets me in. My pre-law advisor told me those numbers were so high because UM had 2 perfect 180's this year who got into Harvard (and dragged the average lsat score up with them). The two years prior to those stats it was 172 and 173 respectively.</p>
<p>...and the 3.95 average is on the LSDS 4.39 scale - it doesn't look QUITE as intimidating when you realize that once again some students dragged that up with their A+'s. When you take an A+ to be a 4.0 that average goes down to a more manageable 3.8-3.85.</p>
<p>I'm sorry...but I'm just so incensed by M&B's comments...we're saying that preferences based on race are bunk..but preferences based on being a legacy are okay...........................</p>
<p>I really do wish I could be a contributing member of this conversation...but my undies are really in a bunch on this one.</p>
<p>
[quote]
but preferences based on being a legacy are okay...........................
[/quote]
</p>
<p>It may seem self-contradictory on M&B's part, but I think it overlooks the inherent justification in both schemes. Ostensibly, M&B, as well as I, rejects the justification for affirmative action, yet accepts the justification for legacy-treatment. There are different justifications for both, and thus one can deny one without denying the other.</p>
<p>Please...someone run by me a justification for prefering the children of ivy league law school grads over regular applicants with high numbers.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Please...someone run by me a justification for prefering the children of ivy league law school grads over regular applicants with high numbers.
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</p>
<p>You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, go search for it.</p>
<p>Well, I can't imagine that keeping the HLS Alumni Association rich, white, and conservative is a justification for legacy admissions, so I'm truly asking M&B or someone else to give me a good reason.....</p>
<p>strong empirical evidence shows that:
legacy adds about 2 points to your lsat score
URM status gives around 8-9</p>
<p>I'm strongly against unqualified students being where they don't belong (be it via connections, athletics, AA, or legacy), but I don't think it's unreasonable to say the legacy admit with, say, a 171 is nearly as underqualified as the AA admit with a 160.</p>
<p>That said, legacy can be defended in a number of ways unavailable to someone trying to defend AA.</p>
<p>Most notably, the fact that alumni are often the second or third largest source of revenue for a university. Their giving is responsible for all that merit and need-based financial aid that everyone here always seems to be so sure they're <em>entitled</em> to (often in the same sentance in which they bash legacy admits). My father has given thousands of dollars back to HLS over the course of his career - why wouldn't they want to keep him happy by accepting me?</p>
<p>
[quote]
I can't imagine that keeping the HLS Alumni Association rich, white, and conservative is a justification for legacy admissions
[/quote]
How would angering the number one source for financial aid that allows non rich, white, and conservative people to attend even if they're admitted help your goal?</p>
<p>Legacy also fosters a sense of community. It is, in all actuality, only used as a tipping point in admissions. It is only a feather on the scale in the case of two equally qualified applicants, whereas racial affirmative action has evolved into an iron weight on that scale.</p>
<p>One Yale adcom also mentioned that legacy students are typically top students in their respective classes.</p>
<p>I wasn't going to mention that because I wasn't sure if it held as true in LS as it does in undergrad, but consider that in a recent study:</p>
<p>legacy admits were 3 times as likely to graduate with latin honors (or equiv) when compared to the student body at large...</p>
<p>whereas</p>
<p>AA admits were twice as likely to fail out when compared to the student body as a whole.</p>