HYPS Accepts using Top State Schools as SAfties

[Aeddar]

<p>Quote “Check out Rabi scholars at Columbia, or the Integrated Science Program at Northwestern. The accelerated math course at Harvard.” Endquote
I don’t know much about NWU but the Rabi scholars is -very- different than any math class at Harvard. The Rabi’s are offered to prospectives before they make their decision where to attend, and it is a 4-yr perk with special dinners, a “clubhouse,” and guaranteed funding for summer research. In contrast all freshman can take Math 55; often a fair number try for a few weeks before sanity prevails and they opt for 25 or 23.</p>

[entomom]

<p>

Sometimes seems like it is all just a game, and a system that is being gamed.

</p>

<p>Don’t forget that some of the top publics also have/had big merit scholarships for HYPS caliber students, for example, UMichigan (changed a couple years ago), UVA and UNC-CH. So while they may be an admissions safety, they also potentially offer a great and affordable education. This is a factor that is particularly important for students anticipating future professional school and/or if need based FA is not forthcoming or sufficient.</p>

<p>Past posters on CC have faced this type of question, there was Tyler09 who chose UMichigan’s Shipman over S:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/649867-near-full-ride-michigan-oos-worth-passing-over-stanford-yale.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/649867-near-full-ride-michigan-oos-worth-passing-over-stanford-yale.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>And my D1 who also chose UMichigan over HYP, the year before the FA initiatives of 2008.</p>

[jc40]

<p>

many of these kids are also applying to schools like UMich, UVA, UNC and non-publics like USC, NYU etc. as back-ups/safeties.

</p>

<p>Considering the acceptance rate for OOS students to UVA and UNC (can’t speak for UMich), even the strongest students shouldn’t consider these schools “safeties”:</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/890455-i-had-2390-sat-i-waitlisted.html?highlight=2390[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/890455-i-had-2390-sat-i-waitlisted.html?highlight=2390&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/887824-reject-unc-chapel-hill-no-chance-uva.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/887824-reject-unc-chapel-hill-no-chance-uva.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/890444-waitlist.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/university-virginia/890444-waitlist.html&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

[FallGirl]

<p>

My daughter notified both UVA and UMich as soon as she heard of her ED decision. Both schools have cancelled her applications. We could have waited until she sent in her deposit (Jan 13), and she was kind of curious to know if she would be accepted, but I told her that it wasn´t the right thing to do.

</p>

<p>Yes it is the right thing to do.</p>

<p>When D applied ED, our understanding was that if your ED school accepted you, you HAD TO withdraw applications at other schools. The only exception was if your ED school did not offer enough FA and it was unaffordable, but my understanding was that you were not to wait and compare FA packages. It was sort of a stand alone decision.</p>

[sevmom]

<p>To add to what jc40 has said, UVa provides need based aid primarily,not merit. Merit aid is very minimal and consists primarily of Jefferson Scholars(about 30 a year) and that program is not administered by UVa. Also, many instate kids in Virginia ,even the top ones who would be as competitive as the next kid for the top schools, do not bother to apply to the Ivy League schools because they are happy with their instate choices .</p>

[mimk6]

<p>

Even Ivies and other elites have “invitation only” programs and courses.</p>

<p>What are those programs?

</p>

<p>Yale has Directed Studies which you have to apply for and/or be invited into. For some kids, that program is one of the reasons they want to attend Yale and they don’t know right away if they will be admitted into it. I believe Yale also has a similar program for kids called Perspectives on Science and Engineering which is also a selected group of students.</p>

[Hanna]

<p>“I think Harvard owes them more than a 2/3’s deferral rate, which is simply “punting” on the difficult decisions.”</p>

<p>I don’t know what the perfect ratio is, but I would like to see Harvard send some more early denials. That said, their logic isn’t that they are punting, but rather that a kid may don something between now and April that blows them away, and they don’t want to shut the door on any kid who might do that. They used to say that they only denied EA if there was nothing that could possibly change their minds in April…i.e., they’d still deny this kid in April if he cured cancer in February and played Carnegie Hall in March. That’s a pretty high (low?) bar.</p>

[menloparkmom]

<p>“There are essentially the same number of students going to college but they applying at more schools.”
I think you are forgetting about the recent huge surge of applications from international students-mostly from China and India, at many of the “elite” Universities. There are many more applying to US schools now than even 5 years ago. That is going to make it harder for qualified US students to grab the gold ring of acceptance at top schools, which may push make them to their safeties, making it harder for less qualified students to again admittance at less selective colleges. I fear its going to be ugly for students who did not find true safeties…</p>

[sunbite]

<p>A kid with an ED acceptance but does not immediately withdraw from other EA/RD schools is not “taking away someone else’ seat.” They may be prolonging other applicants’ anxiety for a while but Admissions is a game of musical chairs that will eventually sort itself out.</p>

[glido]

<p>“They get accepted at 12-18 and other qualified students get shut out.”</p>

<p>Not so - the UVAs and MICHs know of the trends and address their acceptance numbers accordingly. It can be a frustrating wait, but at the end of the day, each student can only fill one spot. High stat kids have every right to apply to their state universities, or any other school.</p>

<p>I do think if one is a super high stat kid and a val, he or she should keep in mind what other schools his or her classmates are applying to and select safeties accordingly.</p>

[FallGirl]

<p>^^ Not technically,but it is still not ethical. The common app ED agreement states that other applications must be promptly withdrawn unless you are seeking FA and then you can wait until you have received FA information. You can look this up.</p>

<p>I live in VA and know many students who have applied/are applying to UVA. None of them (and they are top students) considers UVA a “safety school”. And they shouldn’t.</p>

[wayneandgarth]

<p>“I think you are forgetting about the recent huge surge of applications from international students-mostly from China and India, at many of the “elite” Universities. There are many more applying to US schools now than even 5 years ago. That is going to make it harder for qualified US students to grab the gold ring of acceptance at top schools”</p>

<p>Menlo - but for 2011, I know at Michigan, where the overall acceptance rate was 40%, the international acceptance rate was 11%. I assume this is a similar approach with other elite publics. May not be with elite privates. </p>

<p>I do agree though that students need to be very careful about including a certain safety they can live with in their applications.</p>