<p>Here's a link to a pdf file showing SAT scores by race. You'll note that a 650 cr or m score is at the 93, 92 percentile for Native Americans. In other words, there are plenty of Native Americans who score higher. By comparison, the same scores are 98th percentile for African Americans. Still, we don't see a lot of African Americans getting into places like Harvard with 650 cr or math scores. Indeed, check CC's archives and you'll find plenty who are rejected with higher scores.</p>
<p>My son got into Cornell ED with a 1950 SAT and got great financial aid. I think as long as you fall into the mid range of the SAT scores, you do have a better chance as an URM. Be sure to check out the schools that offer paid trips to visit if money is an issue. My son went to Cornell and Dartmouth to visit in the fall. We also got a letter in December from Harvard and UCNC - Chapel Hill saying that they recruit and offer scholarships to qualifying Native Americans. He fell in love with Cornell and only applied there. </p>
<p>Also, when I was a teenager, I was told that basically, all I would have to do was apply to Harvard and I would get in as long as my scores fell within the averages for SAT's and GPA. There are not a lot of Native Americans and they are applying to all schools. Don't assume that they will all be trying to get into Harvard. Go for it - take a chance. </p>
<p>I want every Native American kid out there to get educated. I'm tired of the poverty too many of us live in and an education will make a difference. If you go to college, your kids will more likely go. My parents didn't graduate from high school, none of my brothers or sisters attended college. My son will be the first to graduate from college and my daughter the second.</p>
<p>Good luck with college and be sure to ask for help if you need it. I never asked for help and ending up not going anywhere. My son asked for help at school and all his teachers, the principal and his guidance counselor helped with his application and essays.</p>
<p>To the OP: Are you actually 100% Native? Or one of the blonde hair girls who claim they're part Cherokee along with the rest of the society? </p>
<p>Anyways, best of luck. I hope you get in.</p>
<p>i read the gatekeepers ages ago and i don't remember anywhere that the two recruited native americans came from harvard educated parents or a parent. i do know that they both dropped out of wes. i do remember that their scores and stats were terrible, yet they were fawned after. the only racist thing i read on this thread is the postings that hope and pray that they can strip native americans of whatever benefits they are entitled to in our society by trying to discourage them from applying to harvard and the like because their stats aren't as high as their white brothers and sisters. my experience with and what i have heard about alumni interviewers are that their recommendations have little input into whether admissions are granted or denied, but it does allow the schools prior grads the opportunity to intimidate specs.</p>
<p>"i read the gatekeepers ages ago and i don't remember anywhere that the two recruited native americans came from harvard educated parents or a parent. "</p>
<p>The one from Bemidji had a Harvard-educated dad. I don't know if that's in the Gatekeepers, but one can find out that info by Googling the dad's name and reading his obituary.</p>
<p>I don't remember that student's scores, but I do want to emphasize that students can drop out of school for reasons that have nothing to do with their scores. As I remember from the book, the student had a rough time at Wes in part because of a lack of Native Americans there. He had gone to a Native American boarding school in, I think, Arizona, and had grown up right off the reservation at Red Lake Minn., where I think his stepfather was a chief.</p>
<p>The student certainly certainly was not illiterate. As mentioned before, one can Google his name, and you'll see that after leaving Wes, he got a Disney screenwriting fellowship. Not only have I met the student, and can speak for his being bright and articulate, but I also know a former Disney fellow who is now a prof at NYU. It is not a fellowship for illiterate minorities.</p>
<p>As for alum interviewers, the weight of their interviews depends on the college. When it comes to Harvard, it's clear that the interview plays a part in admission. I have personally been contacted by adcoms with questions about my reports. I have never seen a student get into Harvard with a bad interview report. I have not seen evidence that a great interview will boost in a mediocre candidate, but I do think that a solid interview can seal an excellent candidate's admission and a bad interview could eliminate a candidate from being admitted.</p>
<p>" think as long as you fall into the mid range of the SAT scores, you do have a better chance as an URM. "</p>
<p>While this may be true, it also would be good if the OP studied for the SAT and took it once or twice more to raise their scores. Most students who score very high on the SAT have been studying for it. Unfortunately, many URMs think that doing well on it is a matter of luck. Instead, often doing well reflects not only taking tough courses, but also taking the time to study for the test, including using the various tips one can find on CC (including from the poster Xiggi, who has posted wonderful tips).</p>
<p>Certainly the OP has nothing to lose by applying to Harvard. However, the OP will be a much stronger candidate by raising those SAT scores and strengthening their ECs and using the various tips about essays, recommendations, etc. that one can find on CC and other sites. Being accepted into Harvard isn't a matter of luck or being a URM. It really helps to do all that one can do to have the strongest application possible. </p>
<p>If Asians can get 750 cr scores even though they moved here in middle school and didn't know English (and I have interviewed several students like this), you can get higher SAT scores than you have gotten. It's a matter of practicing the test and using the review books. Doing well is not a matter of luck.</p>
<p>When it comes to applying to college, Cornell is easier to get into than is Harvard. It also has a harder time than does Harvard of recruiting URMs because of Cornell's location in an isolated area with few URMs.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I think your link to the PDF file of races and scores disappeared; can you please repost it?</p>
<p>here's the thing about forums and boards like this, people are so sensitive and anxious to be correct (especially some of those folks on the u of chicago forum) that they make stuff up. sure the native american kids weren't illiterate, their parents are harvard educated, their siblings discovered the vaccine for polio, their pet dog scaled mt everest alone while dragging three climbers to safety. make up whatever you like as long as you come off as an authority. sure, take my advice, i'm an alumni interviewer even though being one is only a bone the school throws at an alumnus to make them feel warm and cuddly (and contributing) about their school even though their reports are usually filed in the nearest circular bin. look...native americans and everyone else should study and score as high as you can on the sat, but if you're native american and don't score as high as the others who have more resources for private tutors because their ancestors stole your land, it's ok, you can get in with lower scores while your white brothers and sisters cry long and hard about reverse discrimination.</p>
<p>Link to pdf file showing sat scores by race: <a href="http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/03_v&m_percentile_ranks_gender_ethnic_0506.pdf%5B/url%5D">http://www.collegeboard.com/prod_downloads/about/news_info/cbsenior/yr2005/03_v&m_percentile_ranks_gender_ethnic_0506.pdf</a></p>
<p>From the Gatekeepers, name of Native American student who went to Wesleyan: Migizi Pensoneau.</p>
<p>This is about his fellowship that he got in 2004:
"IAIA student Migizi Pensoneau
received The Walt Disney Studios
and ABC Entertainment Writing
Fellowship, a yearlong residency
program in Burbank..."
From the fall 2004 newsletter of the Institute of American Indian Arts:
<a href="http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:u3j2nh8NhgcJ:www.iaiancad.org/documents/0973iaiaFall-wtr04_T.pdf+%22migizi+pensoneau%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=14&ie=UTF-8%5B/url%5D">http://64.233.179.104/search?q=cache:u3j2nh8NhgcJ:www.iaiancad.org/documents/0973iaiaFall-wtr04_T.pdf+%22migizi+pensoneau%22&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=14&ie=UTF-8</a></p>
<p>From Migizi's father's obiturary:
"William Cecil "Bill" Pensoneau, former Ponca City resident, departed this life on Thursday, July 25, 2002, in St. Paul, Minn. ...</p>
<p>Bill attended many institutions of higher learning, including Oklahoma University, Sacramento State and UCLA, ending his formal education with a masters degree from Harvard University. His career included professorships at Harvard University and UCLA.... </p>
<p>Bill is survived by his two children, Jennifer Cecily and husband, Jason Wolf and Migizi Pensoneau."
<a href="http://www.electricscotland.com/history/america/donna/warriors_dare.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.electricscotland.com/history/america/donna/warriors_dare.htm</a></p>
<p>And for the record, Mig's SAT was a 650 v, 550 m (pg. 52 Gatekeepers. While it was below Wesleyan's average, it was at or above all but the top 10% of Native Americans who took it that year. There's no evidence that he took it again. According to Harvard adcoms, the bottom score that indicates someone can make it at Harvard is about a 1200 on the old SAT. (I know this from presentations from Harvard adcoms.)</p>
<p>One certainly has seen many students on CC who greatly raised their SAT scores with repeats and with tutoring, things there's no evidence that Mig did. One also sees the occasional white student posting here who was accepted to Ivies with similar scores.</p>
<p>Anyway, so much for the various accusations and insinuations by BlacknBlue.</p>
<p>OP, my suggestion is that you contact the Native American organization at Harvard and get information directly from students there about what you can do to have the best chances of admission. There is a strong Native American group there. Using them and the adcoms is far better than relying on anonymous and often uninformed strangers on message boards.</p>
<p>Here's a link ot the Harvard Native American program: <a href="http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/hunap/prospective_studentsINPROGRESS.htm%5B/url%5D">http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/hunap/prospective_studentsINPROGRESS.htm</a>
And here's some info:
"Harvard University's founding Charter of 1650 pledges Harvard to "the education of English and Indian youth." With the designation of its vibrant Native American Program as one of the University's twelve Interfaculty Initiatives, Harvard now rededicates itself to its founding pledge. The Harvard University Native American Program brings together resources, faculty, and students from across the University in a shared commitment to research, teaching, and outreach, advancing the well-being of indigenous peoples through self-determination, academic achievement, and community service.</p>
<p>With its designation as an Interfaculty Initiative, HUNAP has rapidly set about expanding its activities. Generous financial support from the University, committed individuals, and concerned non-profit foundations has enabled HUNAP to build key institutional infrastructure that is needed to move Native American issues into the teaching, research, outreach, and student recruiting that are at the core of an excellent university. From its new and firm institutional base, HUNAP is now investing in a wide array of areas...."</p>
<p>I also suggest that you use Google to find the names of Native American Harvard alum. Contact them directly through phone and e-mail. Given the shortage of Native Americans who are interested in places like Harvard, I am sure that they will be happy to share their expertise with you.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you!</p>
<p>And in case you don't know it, OP, Native American activist Winona LaDuke is a Harvard grad.<a href="http://voices.cla.umn.edu/vg/Bios/entries/laduke_winona.html%5B/url%5D">http://voices.cla.umn.edu/vg/Bios/entries/laduke_winona.html</a></p>
<p>I don't get the whole diversity thing...Diversity of what? Race? Sex? Ideas? Sexual preference? Merit?? It sounds like a P.C. mantra if you ask me.</p>
<p>well op, it certainly looks like your scores are a lot better than migi's. so what have we learned from this? you are a lock at wesleyan. you are also a lock at harvard. there are people out there very upset that native americans get any kind of preferential treatment that they feel you must raise your numbers to a level where you can gain admittance into harvard so they can claim that urm's don't need any special designation, and that urm programs could be abolished so that the dreaded "reverse discrimination" can also be abolished and therefore their children can take the slots currently open to urms. wow, this thread is very enlightening. btw, what was laduke's gpa and sat? probably less than the op's. also exactly where in the gatekeepers was it listed that mig's dad was a harvard graduate student?</p>
<p>*** NOBODY *** is ever a lock at Harvard regardless of stats, location, race, ethnicity, etc. Even developmental and publicity cases aren't "locks" at Harvard. Granted that each of these have advantages, ** NOT A SINGLE ONE ** constitutes a "lock."</p>
<p>"well op, it certainly looks like your scores are a lot better than migi's. so what have we learned from this? you are a lock at wesleyan. you are also a lock at harvard. "</p>
<p>That's ridiculous. There are plenty of people of all races who are rejected from schools like those even though they have scores higher than some who were accepted. </p>
<p>As I mentioned before, I know a Native American who was rejected by Harvard with a 750 m and academic national awards. I know a black student who are rejected by Harvard with scores above 1500. Meanwhile, I also know of white and Asian students who were accepted with scores lower than those.</p>
<p>Unlike most public universities, which basically accept and reject students based on stats, Ivies and similar schools examine the whole application. One can't just assume that because someone is Native American or because someone is from Alaska or from rural Arkansas that they have lock on admission any more than does a person who has 1500 scores and is a double legacy.</p>
<p>As has been repeatedly stated on CC boards and elsewhere, most of the applicants to top private colleges have the stats that indicate they would graduate if admitted. This includes the OP. </p>
<p>What adcoms do is choose to admit applicants who will contribute to creating a well rounded class, meaning a class that has all sorts of diversity: regional, racial, ethnic, income, interests, religious, sexual orientation, etc. Most colleges don't have the luxury of doing so because they don't get the overabundance of excellent applicants that the top colleges do. </p>
<p>Meanwhile, in general "What are my chances" posts are a waste of time. If one wants to get a more accurate idea about one's chances, one should check out the stats listed in the US News Premium site and also check the individual college boards on CC to note who was admitted, rejected and deferred.</p>
<p>Believing in most chances replies is just as accurate as believing in tea leaf readings. People who after reading this thread believe that the OP is a lock on Harvard are people who themselves seem to lack the analytical thinking skills that would lead to success at a top college.</p>
<p>^^^I agree</p>
<p>Wondering why the OP posted the below earlier this month.
<a href="http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1788948#post1788948%5B/url%5D">http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/showthread.php?p=1788948#post1788948</a></p>
<p>"I am in 11th grade. My G.P.A is a 4.0, and my SAT score is a 2250. I am the club president of the Global Activist Club, and my first language is French, as my parents were born their, and talked to me in French until I started school. I am also on the varsity baseball team. I also work in the summers as a counselor in a camp, play trumpet, and do charity work. Is that enough to get me into UCLA?"</p>
<p>i hate people who spit out random hypothetical posts like these...why do people bother wasting their time as well as the time of others if by lying on a internet forum? </p>
<p>I hate myself for bothering with chances threads...</p>
<p>Anyone think this thread has anything to do with the "I am black and I want Ivys" thread? Maybe OP is trying to get the same type of arguement riled up over here...</p>
<p>thanks for crushing it NSM!</p>
<p>i think that with your scores you wont get in. sorry</p>
<p>op: don't let the petty jeolousies of some of the posters here discourage you. if you want to "belt and suspender" your app, take the sat's one more time and get an extra 50 points to make it an even 2000. otherwise spend the rest of your time trying to figure out how you can get some extra spending money out of harvard beyond the full ride they will give you as a native american with a 1950. maybe you can have harvard get the spending money from those alumni interviewers who love to meet and intimidate specs just to brag about how great they are for having attended the school.</p>
<p>I agree with whichever poster suggested Cornell instead. But as Native American is is probably imperative that you get into the highest-ranked Ivy League college you can or else your college degree won’t be worth much in the job market. Every interview you get, your skin color will be seen first, your alma mater second. Your resume will play “guess who’s coming to the interview.” You will be seen as “uneducated” if you go to anything less than an Ivy League school…but you must know that already, since you’ve set your sights on Harvard. Maybe also look at Cornell, Columbia, NYU, or Johns Hopkins, depending on what you want to major in.</p>