<p>hey i know exactly how you feel!!</p>
<p>my dad owns 2 rental properties.. he has owned them since the mid 1980s.. and the value of them is 3x what he bought them for!! All duke sees is the value of teh properties; we are screwed. on all estimates it made about a 15-20k/year difference.. guess 400k in assets will do that to fin aid.</p>
<p>good luck, and wish me the same.. I was accepted ED and have no choice but to pay it... my parents are going to appeal I believe.</p>
<p>I am sorry I even put this post up. I was disappointed in the moment, but now I am over it. I dont want to fight with you Bil05, I dont know you, you dont know me. I want to go to Duke so badly, and I dont think I am going to let this financial aid situation stop me. You dont know the extent to which i have researched and tried to deal with this financial aid situation. Anyone who is in the "rental property business" knows that you have your financial ups and downs. This year we had to sell a house, and that spiked our income, but we had to sell the house because we were having some serious financial problems, so we did not have that income at our disposal. I think this year I may have to take out some major loans, but in the next years it will not be bad. If I want this badly enough I will make it work. A Duke education is that important to me, and you cannot plan perfectlyfor something that you have never experienced before. My parents and I have discussed this numerous times in the past, but how can you ever be prepared to pay 42,000 a year? Again, hopefully it will all play out, and for anyone in a similar situation, good luck. I am quite optimistic about it now, why should I let this get me down?</p>
<p>Mjs, i hope it all works out for you</p>
<p>(your duke profile is cool btw - mine is like 4 away from yours in the total list)</p>
<p>good luck mjs. you know we all love success stories.</p>
<p>that's the spirit mjs....good luck</p>
<p>Hi there:
I am glad you are thinking of going forward with attending Duke. Being shabby chic poor during your education years can be an honor and is a norm for many cool kids. Your friends will respect whatever you have to do to supplement. It is not ideal to have to take out huge loans, but on the other hand I will testify to paying back loans for a decade to a top 25 University with Zero regrets. So we didn't have two cars sometimes and we didn't have new cars ever. Our housing was dingy/lower quality a little longer than others with no debt perhaps but the financial rewards come later--and they will arrive. Perhaps you can opt for a state graduate school for instance or get into a school that will offer you merit money for grad school. I agree that a Duke education is an investment that might be worth sacrificing for if that is the way it is going to be. I am not saying you shouldn't consider less expensive choices, only chiming in that "you can do it" if you keep your eye on long-term goals.</p>
<p>mj i am in the exact same situation cept a little worse...i actually got NO money from duke...my family simply cannot afford it...and i just came back from the bsai and it was amazing and i kind of wish i didn't go because it has drawn me sooo unbelievably close to duke that it just isnt fair</p>
<p>I've been hesitant to post this thinking that maybe our situation is unique, but I decided maybe it will shed another light on the matter. Please keep in mind that this is just one opinion, and I realize that some families just CAN'T work things out financially. I feel fortunate that we were able to. </p>
<p>Our oldest son applied ED to Stanford several years ago. We were naive, thinking that "full demonstrated need" meant just that. Unfortunately their definition of "need" was much different than ours. After being overjoyed at the acceptance in mid-December, I'll never forget the devastation we felt on Christmas Eve Day when the Financial Aid estimate arrived...NOTHING, except Unsubsidized Stafford Loan. What a depressing day as we told our son "we just can't do that". Being a wonderfully sensitive, understanding kid, he said he understood and would do everything he could to find other options for funding. We said we would do our part to try and appeal. </p>
<p>We (like the original poster) also own property, which is in our opinion a part of our retirement investment. Additionally, we own a business in a very depressed area where our accounts receivable are unusually high - many debts that we will never collect. We arranged a conference call with financial aid, and included our accountant in the call. The property, in their opinion was treated like a liquid asset, as was the accounts receivable. At least that's my understanding of it. At any rate, no change was made to our financial aid package. Our son applied for about 25 national scholarships, and didn't receive any thing from them. He did receive several one time local scholarships. Seeing him try so hard to find away to finance this education was heartbreaking. We told him that we were able to finance the first year at Stanford, but we just didn't know after that, as we had two other siblings to educate after him. He wanted to go to Stanford so bad that he proposed going for a year and if we couldn't figure out a way to finance it after that, he would try to see if the door was still open to transfer to the school that was offering him substantial money to attend. </p>
<p>For the sake of trying to shorten this story, I will just say that he went the full four years and was able to graduate from Stanford. Here's where the story turns positive. We always wondered if we were doing the right thing by investing so much in this top notch school. Could our kids get a good education and do just as well at a lower priced school? I think the answer is "maybe". One thing that happened for our son was that by his sophomore year he was able to work in a research lab that paid quite well for something that he considered to be a major part of his education. These earnings really helped to lower the total cost of his education. More than that, however, it opened doors that we wonder if he would have walked through had he been in a different (ie: lower cost school). The connections he made in the research world at Stanford were so instrumental in getting him where he is today, which is in a FULLY PAID MD/PHD program. This was enormous as we wondered how we could possibly help him when we had two other children in college - we knew we couldn't, and if it weren't for this program he would have to take on enormous debt to finance his professional dream of being a medical clinician as well as a medical scientist. Along with tuition, fees, and health insurance etc, he also receives a living stipend and is actually getting paid enough to pay off undergraduate loans, and living quite comfortably while going to medical school. HE will complete his education debt free. </p>
<p>I realize this may not be the case with every student, but for us the "bang for the buck" of the Stanford experience really paid off. Now our younger son attends Duke, and already during his freshman year has connected with several wonderful research opportunities that we feel will not only stimulate him, but will help pave the way to his future in the area that he's passionate about. We are convinced that it is worth the price to send our kids to a school that has the opportunities they're looking for to make their dream a reality. Please, don't get me wrong... I also beleive that students can do wonderful things at lower priced state schools etc. It's all about motivation to find the opportunities and the connections that make things happen. I just wanted to give another slant to the "is it worth it" argument, and I can say withough a doubt, for us, it has been. We drive old cars, decided not to build a house on the lake, and figure we can make do for several more years. To us, it's worth it. </p>
<p>Sorry for the length of this, but I just had to share our experience...now I wonder how much editing I'll have to do after going back and reading my ramblings! :-)</p>
<p>dak:</p>
<p>with due apologies, I am going to copy paste your response in parents section.....P</p>
<p>thank you so much dak. I think you are unique, but it is so encouraging. I want to go to Duke so badly, and I know by going there so many doors would be opened. Today I worked on the greatest appeal ever (I think). I have included spread sheets, scanned documents, and we wrote a 3 page letter. We did EVERYTHING possible for me to get an appeal and I really hope it helps, but I think Duke is definitely where i want to be. I think we were misrepresented. I know it very well may not work out, but I am prayerful, hopeful and ambitious. It is going to take a lot for this to dissuade me. Maybe I am stubborn and foolish, but it is worth it for me personally. I will keep you guys updated.</p>
<p>Good luck man!!!</p>
<p>It is amazing to me how many families apply for college without considering how they will pay for it if aid is not forthcoming. I haven't met too many families who purchase homes or cars or rental properties without considering how they will pay for those if given the chance at ownership. Families need better education around the likelihood of receiving assistance that is easy to access and understand. Most parents would not let their kid go through all this only to find out that they have to disappoint their child at the end. </p>
<p>There was no doubt in my mind when I allowed my son to apply to a $30k to $40k plus school that I was committing to paying for that school if he was accepted and no money was forthcoming. And, if I was not willing or able to pay for that tuition, I sure would have made that clear as a bell before the application went forward. There should be no surprises at this point. Kids don't have the ability to project and put the reality of tuition costs in the forefront.</p>
<p>A couple of things struck me about this student's situation (MJS). The family has assets that they are not willing to divest or perhaps take an equity line on - that is understandable but that is also a family/personal choice. I would love to keep all my earnings for retirement (and I certainly wish I had rental properties to aid with retirement) but that is not going to happen - my earnings will pay for college, including my current 9th grader's college, even though I will be 62 when he graduates college. Second, MJS's Mother does not work - perhaps she cannot but that is certainly a reasonable source of additional income if she is able to work. Again, I find this is a personal choice issue and not an issue of inadequate financial aid. I have worked for l8 years of my kids's lives and will continue to work so that I can help pay for college. It is a sacrifice but one that many parents make to pay for college or even other necessities of life. I work with oodles of two paycheck families.</p>
<p>A plug here. We had an opportunity to vote for a President this year who advocated for a college tax credit. That seemed reasonable to me but apparently not to enough people <g>!!!!! Something to think about for the next election!</g></p>
<p>Good luck MJS - I hope your family is able to contribute more to your situation. If not, you should take the advice of dak. My parents never expected me to go to college and therefore never saved a dime. They made very little money and I received some scholarships and lots of loans. Yes, the loans were smaller than they would be today but it was a lot for me and the only way I could do it. How determined are you? I was extremely determined. I have a doctorate now, a good position, and am glad that I didn't stay home and go to a commuting college that cost 1/10th the price. If you really want to go to Duke, you can figure out a way to do it. OTOH, you can get a good educationat another school and several people have written in from last year's group to comment on that. Good luck!</p>
<p>Yeah we sure did have the opportunity to vote for a candidate who advocated Tuition Tax Credits, but at the expense of what??? RAISING TAXES. The reason he never offered a plan for anything is that it always involved raising taxes!</p>
<p>mjs, you are the bomb. Seriously, way to go.</p>
<p>mjs please let us know how it goes. I'm hoping they give you a great deal of aid. How much do you think you will need in order to go to Duke? Whatever it is, i hope you get it.</p>
<p>And BCgoUSC, raising taxes for those who made 250k+. I mean I'm sure they're in dire need of a tax cut, but that money should go elsewhere in my opinion. Something tells me those people won't have much trouble funding a college education.</p>
<p>Well, I know we don't want to turn this into a political discussion but, remember that we would not require a tax increase if we withdrew the tax cuts given by Bush to those earning over $200k/year. How much financial benefit do YOU actually receive from giving that cut to the wealthy, I would love to see the figures (unless, of course, you are in that top 200k). And, imagine if we were not spending our taxes on search and destroy and rebuilding missions for non-existant WMDs. $218 million plus would pay for a lot of education! The people who need tax relief the most are the ones who voted for Bush - they just didn't do their math!</p>
<p>hey mjs4n6</p>
<p>do you happen to have aim? i am in the same financial situation and i need help. =(</p>
<p>It seems obvious you really really want to go to Duke, so don't defeat the dream. Go for it! Even if you got aid everywhere else and from every source. Your dream was to go. Now make your dream to pay for it. Use that brain that Duke recognized. I didn't get that opportunity from my parents and I made sure that if my kids got into the school they wanted, that's where they'd go even if I had to take a 3rd job.</p>
<p>here is some practical advice to make your dream come true. First, divide your college into four years. TAke everthing one year at a time. Your dad and mom can get a plus loan for all your expenses first year. That is payable over 10 years. It is available if you haven't any credit dings within the last five years and even then you can remedy it unless your dad or mom has filed Bankruptcy. Your parent can take one out in every year. But you can also win some more scholarships to reduce the need for supplemental plus loans. First year, work somewhere and make some good cash. A waiter gets tips or find some interesting work in a doc's or lawyers office. Just find something that pays well. Second year, try to get a RA position that will cover room and board. You can make it all work just use the brain. Most importantly, don't freak on the total over four years. There are many creative ways to make money==writing, walking dogs, elderly care. A dream realized is really really worth the effort to make it happen.</p>
<p>One more thing to add---as I've said to my kids--there is nothing wrong with working a semester and going to school a semester. The world is not a nice place so take your time in college and enjoy it.</p>