I can't afford it.

Paying for College
41

<p>
[quote]
my step-dad is going back to school next year to pick up some classes to qualify him for a new job. When we fill out next years FAFSA, will that help anything?

[/quote]
</p>

<p>While it does nothing for your EFC, his EFC will be reduced.</p>

<p>Does your school only use the FAFSA to determine aid or does it also use the CSS profile/ their own financial aid forms?</p>

<p>
[quote]
Because of an insurance error this year, my family has almost 20,000 in medical debt. They should take that into consideration.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I think that you should contact the FA office at the school and request the financial review. Is your family currently paying this medical debt? Do your parents expect to be reimbursed for the money paid out after everything is cleared up with the insurance company? You/yourparents really need to explain this situation to them including sending in the necessary documentation.</p>

42

<p>
[quote]
I have around 30k in bonds under my name for college that my parents have been saving up since I was born

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Off the bat the school is assessing 35% of your assets (the bonds) toward your EFC. This accounts for $10,500. this compounded with your parents income and large amount of equity in their home means that you are virtually going to be a full paying student at any school where you are not getting merit aid.</p>

<p>While it commendable that your family is helping their extended family, it is not taken into consideration in the eyes of financial aid. </p>

<p>
[quote]
I wouldn't mine taking out 45k a year in loans...haha...but obviously my parents are adamantly opposed to that.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Without your parents as co-signers, you as a 17 year old have a very slim to non chance of borrowing this money. The other question is do you really want to be saddled down with $180,000 worth of debt for undergrad. This can really cripple you choices for the future.</p>

43

<p>FooMonChew and who8mahrice:</p>

<p>I haven't found the answer to this question in any financial aid material I've read: Do any schools use institutional formulas that factor in cost-of-living indices? I'm 99% sure the FAFSA doesn't, but I had hoped some college was smart enough to realize that a salary of 80K in Los Angeles or Greenich CT is not the same as 80K in Wyoming or somewhere. Same with home values. Our market value number sounds pretty decent, but our house is very modest--the cheapest in our town. Our relatives spent less money on their home near Dallas, Texas and bought a house twice as large.</p>

44

<p>sybbie719-
I will be going to the university of Florida next year, and they unfortunately only use the FAFSA. And as it is a state school, they don't exactly have a ton of money to give away.</p>

<p>My family is not going to be reimbursed for the medical expenses. I'm not sure exactly why, but thats the major reason why paying for college is going to be an issue.</p>

45

<p>"...honestly I do wonder why the amount my parents say they can afford seems so little compared to our gross income..."</p>

<p>I'm getting conflicting stories from my (divorced) parents about how much they can actually afford to pay, although both agree that they won't be able to cover our full EFC ($23,00 I think). In fact, because of the discussions we've had previously about money, I was really shocked to find out that our EFC is so high. My parents have told me that they'll do their best with the EFC and I'll have to take out loans to pay off the rest of it, which they will help me to pay back as they are able. I'm ok with that. </p>

<p>Still.....sometimes I can't help feeling slightly resentful about the way my parents have handled their money (although I try not to). Does anyone else feel this way?? I understand why they made a lot of the choices that they did, but even my mom tells me that some of those choices weren't very good, and now their financial situation isn't great. </p>

<p>Then again, I'm very lucky to have parents who can help me at all....and who try to be realistic about the situation....</p>

46

<p>Vinny is bit over the top in anger. As a member of $150K household which has come from putting my spouse through 10 years more of school when he was 32 yo, we didn't have 20 years to save for college. He has been in the workforce for 8 1/2 years, my oldest daughter was 2 when he returned to school. The reason to go? To better our lives. In retrospect, I would have the same kids and we would be at an income level eligible for free rides at Ivies. Instead we fall into the middle class no man's land of no aid from the upper level schools. I am an immigrant, (my spouse is not) and I grew up as part of the working poor. Most times empathy only comes with experience, some people can empathize without experience. Keep that in mind when assessing the situations of others. I believe regardless of income we all desire the best for our children-at least that is how it should be.</p>

47

<p>My parents make ~190,000 dollars a year before taxes. And our EFC is ~40,000, but we honestly cannot afford to pay this. Some people may think we don't want to spend the money but this is simply not the case. The FAFSA doesn't ask how many jobs my immigrant parents work; otherwise, they'd know that my dad works TWO full-time jobs and my mother works ONE full-time and ONE part-time to make ends meet. They still owe a couple hundred thousand against our house and they have no money saved up for college. I really want to go to Barnard, which is about 47K (tuition, room and board, etc.) but if we don't get at least half, I know this will not be possible. Also, my parents are nearing retirement age and my dad has had two strokes. People think we have money b/c I go to private school, but I get half of my tuition from a merit scholarship. So no, it's not easy when you are not extremely poor or extremely wealthy. I've passed one obstacle (getting admitted), only to face another (money). There is definitely no black and white area economically.</p>

48

<p>Crap...Is my situation hopeless then...? :-&lt;/p>

<p>And yes, I wouldn't mind coming out of undergrad school with nearly 200k in debt. I think that's a small price to pay for the tuition I could use for the rest of my life. And yes, I realize the difference in education between a private Ivy and a state school may not be worth 45k...but still...It's been my dream for so long...And I plan on majoring in neuroscience, looking at neurosurgeon as a possibility. Starting salaries are around 500k so I've heard, so I'm not extremely worried about that...</p>

<p>GFG:
I'm sure they do consider where you're coming from...but it doesn't hurt to try does it? (Or maybe it does and I'm just naive...lol)</p>

49

<p>i hear stories of ppl getting into their dream schools and not going b/c they cant afford it. all my life, ive thot, NO, that doesnt REALLY happen! ppl can do whatever they put their mind to! but...can that really happen? you cant just pay loans back for the rest of your life? and im serious in this question. i want to go to nyu, but what if im one of those kids that just simply cannot go?</p>

50

<p>Ultimately you decide for yourself; as it should be. Don't ever base a life decision on a web forum, each person's situation is unique. You make the best of whatever you decide. If you take on the risk and responsibility of debt then you work hard and repay. If you go with a less expensive school, you still work hard and you make the most of the education you receive there. You make a decision and follow through. For us, we have already made the decision to sell the house and make do with less. My daughter will be responsible to pay us back over time. It is only a house, she is more important to me than a house. As an immigrant who had to figure things out as I went along, I feel priviledged to have the opportunity to do what I can to allow her to reach her potential. She has worked hard for what she has accomplished. She isn't spoiled, she appreciates it and would rather we not look to make this dramatic a move but when a world class education is made available to you, it seems to me one should make the efforts to accept. I have a second child who will go to college in a few years, this should benefit her as well. This is not everyone's choice. It's just a choice.</p>

51

<p>You gusy dont understand that people in 30K a year incomes do the same thing you do. If your excuse is taxes, then yeah stop living such a lavish lifestyle. You dont need the things in whcih you have become accustomed to.</p>

<p>My mother makes 39 K a year. My efc was around 3K per year.</p>

<p>Want to know what my mother said, She didnt say a word she went in a crazy laugh. Want to know why, because even if my EFC was $10 she wouldent have paid that. It doesnt matter if It was the deciding point of me going to school or not. She would not pay a cent. She would tell me to go get a job for 6 years, save up and then go. Want to know why, because thats what her and here 3 sisters had to do. One i might mention went throgh medical school and now is a doctor. With Zero help from her parents. She worked her ass off and got throgh it.</p>

<p>It has never been the parents responsibility to send their children to college.</p>

<p>Maybe we have a different mentality in the bronx, but thats how it works around here. I dont know any parents paying for their childrens school.</p>

<p>An example, a freind who I played football with whos mother is a teacher and brings in about 60K a year. and his father who does insurance who easily brings in 350K a year. Family has an insanly nice house(3 of them i might add) and very nice cars. </p>

<p>Now with a income like that, my friend got Zero in aid, because well his family could easily pay for any school in which he desired. Now he goes to SUny Morrisville which come out to be around $5000 per year + dorms and other stuff.</p>

<p>But guess what. his parents dont pay a cent, he does it by himself, 100% by himself i might add. He has 2 brothers and a sister who are all over 25 and they also did it themselves under the same circumstances,</p>

<p>You people are just spoiled beyound belief. If you put yourself in my shoes, look how crazy you sound.</p>

52

<p>You're assuming that we know nothing of your situation. As a matter of fact, I do. Your mom's situation was nothing like my parents. Straight from Vietnam during the war. They were poor in Vietnam, how do you think they compared in the US? On my mom's side, every single one of 11 kids graduated from college without any help from my grandparents who were working menial labor jobs like janitorial stuff. One of my uncles graduated with a Masters and PhD from MIT. On my dad's side nearly everyone went to college as well, and again without help from his parents. So don't go accusing us of being spoiled and not understanding what it's like. I've seen first hand what work and effort can do.</p>

<p>Taxes don't come from merely a lavish lifestyle -__-;; Perhaps you should try handling taxes and income for the whole family, not just yourself.</p>

<p>My family brings in about 90k after taxes. Take out 50k+ a year and we've got 40k a year left. Comparable to your income now isn't it? 40k for four other family members. In addition, in general, these higher paying jobs also demand more. And so during college, my family would be earning nearly the same amount as you, for four members, and for doing more work.</p>

<p>And you talk about working yourself to pay it off all...have you been offered a 45k yearly income job as a college student? I didn't think so. Yes, my parents and your parents were able to do it, but what colleges did they go to? My parents had to go to instate schools because being recently immigrated, their knowledge of the legal and economic situations and opportunities were next to nothing, on top of their low command of the English language. Some of us here have the once in a lifetime chance to go to a world class university during our prime years of learning ability. We have worked through 12 years of schooling to get to this point. We have earned it. Do you think we want to suddenly give it all up and have to concede to a state university just because of financial situations? No. We want to try to obtain that education, but working by yourself as either a minor or barely turned adult is next to impossible. Unless you are the next milliondollarhomepage webmaster, good luck at funding a world class education. Now, state universities aren't bad, but they just aren't the same.</p>

<p>You are content with your school, we are not. Perhaps that there is our tragic flaw, but who can blame others for striving for excellence? Not I.</p>

<p>Parents are there to HELP you, not pay for you. As soon as I'm out of undergraduate, I plan to help out with my parents with my two brothers entering college...and I'll be in graduate school at this time. So am I trying to hitch a free ride? Absolutely not.</p>

<p>If you're trying to criticize us and our way of life, then perhaps I should do likewise. Why is your family only earning 39k a year even with a college degree? My dad started from scratch, earning his bachelor's and is working with Intel to support our family. (Mom earn's relatively little as a substitute teacher). Not only that, we help support our extended family, including our grandparents, aunts, uncles...many of them in Vietnam.</p>

<p>So who's the naive one now? Rather than steadfastly criticising us for the numbers you should perhaps take your own advise and see and ANALYZE the situation we're in.</p>

<p>People like you **** me off, those who are ignorant to the social issues and adopt a dogmatic point of view.</p>

53

<p>Now if you had only answered like PittU (text quoted from another thread), I wouldn't have gone on that rant. It says the same things, but in a less pretentious manner. I disagree, but his/her tone doesn't make me adamantly reject his/her opinion.</p>

<p>"I believe there's a great deal of misconception in regards to Financial Aid for poor people. A lot of middle class Americans feel resentful that they are struggling with high EFCs and low need-based aid while poor folks are having an easier time. Poor people never have an advantage. Its likely they have had an inferior education compared to wealthier students to boot. </p>

<p>Poor students DO NOT get a substantial amount more aid, if any, than their middle class counterparts. Speaking from experience, there are no large coffers of student aid for poor kids, just waiting to be given out. Often times, like me, you will not have enough aid to cover costs. Government aid caps out at unreasonably low levels. When your parents cannot give you a cent for aid, it is very tough to even complete college, let alone merely having debt.</p>

<p>Sorry if I seem rude, but I don't have much sympathy for high(er) income students when it comes to financial aid. If you have a 300k house, its hard to be sympathetic when other parents rent and cannot contribute and money.</p>

<p>I've struggled to put myself through school. I haven't been enrolled in years because there is no way to get the money I need. If there were unlimited funds available for poor students, I would have graduated twice already."</p>

54

<p>We have been in America for just a few years and my parents have no savings. We are still paying for the INS fees and our lawyers. After some hard times with addmission and my immigration papers, I will be attending George Washington University. For those of you who don't know, a student there has to pay about 50,000 a year. Do we have the money? Of course not. We have decided we would take as many loans as possible, put the house on the line, and with a scholarship, and whatever financial aid... i can attend. Make a garage sale, ask someone to sponsor you, apply to scholarhips, there ARE ways to pay.
I believe students should not be worried about debt...if you graduate college and get a good job...you'll pay the loans off. It's worth it.</p>

55

<p>UB, what you describe has a lot to do with why some groups in this Country have little upward mobility from generation to generation. It's not spoiled to hope that your family will support the best possible education they can afford for you. Don't you think there is a problem when people with money care more about big houses and new cars than seeing their children become things they never dreamed of being? Why is it that there are immigrant groups who come to this Country, clean houses and do other menial jobs and a generation later their kids are doctors and engineers. It's truly sad to me that you could begin to consider kids spoiled who get this kind of support. Without parental help that could be there, they end up at lesser schools with inferior educations. As for the groups that are helped, many pay their parents back in spades later, but for most of these parents this was just their loife plan--to give their children all they can give.</p>

56

<p>going to harvard and going to a state school is not going to change where you end up in life. I know alot more people who have attened nyu and columbia and and living paycheck to paycheck and some even driving tractor trailors around the country. Dont tell me that a 30-40K a year school is a garentee to do better. if you think that you are crazy. In all honesty the people that i know throgh friends and family, the ones who have better jobs who are the ones who went to lesser know schools. Most of them being state and city schools here in NY.</p>

<p>Saying that a school gives an inferior education, is ridiculous. If you really think you will get that much better of a education from a school like NYU to a school like Cuny Hunter, you have again lost your mind. And cuny HUnter is 25K less than NYU.</p>

<p>Yes I still consider you people spoiled.</p>

57

<p>The memory of my "unspoiled" childhood is burned in my memory. I started working at age 8. When I was 16 my dad quit working, my 3 sisters had left the house, my mother was working 20 plus hours a day to pay the bills and we had bill collectors callling each night. We didn't heat the house in winter past keeping the pipes from freezing. I saw my breath in the morning when I got up. I was working both before and after school and bringing home the groceries (yes, at my expense). I did pay for ALL of my own college- there wasn't even a question of whether or not. It was just the way it was. I spent my share of days being scared and uncertain. I don't recall being angry at those who had the means (all my friends and roommates at college seemed to come from secure financial means). I was simply in struggle mode the majority of the time. But I was also determined to do what I had to do. Didn't go to an Ivy. I knew I couldn't afford it. I remember the paperwork for college that my parents had to fill out, even though I was paying for everything. I spent a lot of time translating and filling things out for them as best I could with forms which were as foreign to me in their content as they were to them in language. My high school graduation I received some local scholarships and awards. My dad watched from off to the side. My mom was in the stands with my graduation present- 2 roses. I did what I could with what I had. Same when we decided to send my husband back to school. Had two kids and I worked 80 plus hours a week. Making judgements on others is wasting your time. Figure out what YOU have to do and do it. I wish you the best. I would think that anyone who has to struggle to pay for school-whether it is a family or an individual is not happy with what their EFC is and that is regardless of income. Either keep hitting your head against a wall or get on with what you can control. I'm done here, and hope you choose to make what you want happen whichever school you go to. I wish you the best.</p>

58

<p>As part of the "rich" middle class I have been concerned about funding my childrens, education...but after some testing at college sites I thought we would receive $8 - $10/K per year. Not as much as I felt we needed but something to work with...instead we got nothing. I just went to Finaid and redid my numbers and can't believe the logic being used to calculate EFC.</p>

<p>We make about $110K before taxes etc...Finaid calculates that we have an EFC of $61K...from income, another $11K from assets. I cant even begin to understand this. Heres what Finaid does:</p>

<p>EFC = Total Income - Fed Taxes - FICA - State & Local taxes - employment allowance - "income protection" allowance. </p>

<p>Finaid's calculation of State & local is 35% of the actual so that is one problem. Finaid, alloted $980 for employment expenses...has anyone noticed the cost of gas? or a business suit? But, the big issue is "income protection" this is only $26,000...there are no other expenses so I guess this is what my family of 5 is supposed to live on. The 2004 Poverty level for a family of 5 with 2 children under 18 (which is what we will be when my child leaves for college) is $23,108.</p>

<p>Are we really supposed to live at the poverty level to quality for financial aid? Tell me something is wrong with this calculation. The schools did not tell us our calculated EFC...should I ask for this? If this is the actual threshold why can't the colleges be upfront with this, so no expections are set?</p>

59

<p>Hold on everyone. Let's not start another civil war over whether or not middle-class people are spoiled/live lavish lifestyles or not. This is all the fault of our screwed-up financial aid system - federal and collegiate. </p>

<p>UB-Vinny: I agree that there is no difference in education be/ a state school and an IVY League. I'm not going to an IVY league, but I'll pay as if I do. The point is that, sometimes, the experience can be drastically different. And I do plan on working to pay for college. My sister works one full-time and one part-time job AND goes to grad school. I plan on working just as hard doing whatever I have to: babysitting, scrubbing toilets, serving food. In fact, I've been working a permanent job since I was in the 9th grade and babystting and tutoring from even before then along with volunteering. Do you think I could ever go to my parents and tell them I WANT something? No, if I want it, I have to work for it. I pay for my own clothes, my school lunches, field trips, transportation,school supplies, etc. out of the $40 I make a week. Everything I buy is on sale b/c I know the value of a dollar. My parents are immigrants: My dad barely finished high school and my mom went to a teacher's college, graduated, but did not get a degree. They came over here in their mid-30s and have worked like dogs ever since. As I have said previously, My parents work two jobs each - this is the least amount of jobs they have ever had! My mother used to work three and four jobs and that was before we were able to afford our home. So no, I'm not spoiled. Income doesn't determine work ethic. I know people whose parents are struggling to make ends meet but they have the latest designer items paid with money they did not work for. Who sounds more spoiled to you? I thank God everyday for the type of parents I have. I remember when I got my job, my mother wasn't too happy. She sat me down and told me that she worked the several jobs she did so that I wouldn't have to, that she began working in a library at 14 ( I followed in her footsteps) so that I would not have to struggle like she did. She is there for me b/c her mother left her when she was 10 and did not come back until she was out of college. I am NOT spoiled, I am LOVED. </p>

<p>It's just so disappointing to know that I worked hard all my life in school and was admitted to another only to face another obstacle: finances. Do you think every middle class family lives a lavish lifestyle? Maybe some do; but not I. I don't live in a house with an excessive number of bedrooms; everyone is filled with a family member. We also live from paycheck to paycheck and still support our family abroad. But you wouldn't know b/c you are so quick to judge. FYI, not everything's black and white.</p>

<p>Rio: Thank you for your point of view. It's good to hear someone speak who is not completely biased.</p>

<p>Sorry for ranting. But honestly, let's all get along and fight the real problem.</p>

60

<p>For Seole,
I understand a little about how you're feeling about your parents. My parents didn't overspend, but were not knowledgeable about finances or investments. My father wasn't college educated, and my parents also never had much extra to play with because my mother didn't go back to work after we grew up and were in HS. Even considering those factors, it still seemed that my friends' parents must have managed their money better because they never did without or had to struggle like I did. Sometimes it hurt and made me angry. But now I'm a parent, and I realize my son is feeling the same way about us. He's probably wondering why I didn't work more instead of being a stay-at-home mom. I know he's wondering (because he has asked) why his father seems to make a good salary and yet we can't even afford cable TV or to fix our house when things break. Yet, we've done the best we could to provide a stable home life, and made what we thought were the best decisions for the well-being of our family. I took a gamble that if I gave up a career to dedicate myself to my kids, chauffeuring them to sports practices and music lessons, helping them with homework, making good meals, being there as an emotional support, etc. that it was more likely they would be happy and successful. The result: I have a moral, mature, intelligent, hard-working, and physically fit child who got accepted at wonderful schools we can't afford. Trust me, we parents are suffering too.</p>