I can't decide! Hamilton vs. Macalester vs. Reed vs. Grinnell

College Search & Selection
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<p>“And then the Carleton application?”</p>

<p>Well, yes. =P That was an unfortunate anomaly. Oh well.</p>

<p>Finalchild, yeah, I’d like to be closer to home, but midwest vs. Oregon doesn’t really make a difference; I’d have to fly either way. So that’s more of a reason not to rule out Hamilton rather than a reason to rule out Reed; if I was ruling out colleges because of that, then I’d already have decided on Hamilton.</p>

<p>Another thing with Mac is that my best friend is accepted and likely attending there… Which could be good or bad. Not really a pro or a con, just something of note.</p>

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<p>The people who work in the FA office – or any of the administrative offices – couldn’t be nicer or more helpful, so I don’t know what the story is with what your mom is saying, but the person who called Grinnell “unwelcoming” is totally off-base.</p>

<p>My S tried the spreadsheet approach: it didn’t work. On paper, Grinnell would have lost – because of its location (not rural setting, but getting there; he hates to fly!), but he felt that he had met “his kind of people.” That was the same exact phrase I heard another mother say to me at Orientation as to why her son had picked Grinnell over an Ivy and another “more selective” school… (she was a little green in the face as she said this…) </p>

<p>I think that at any school, one will get a great education, find a group of friends and get involved in extracurricular activities, but at some you feel more like you fit in a niche, and at others, you can have an overall sense of belonging. </p>

<p>I think that’s what your decision comes down to: whether you want to make it more about the tangibles of place or the intangibles of personal fit. </p>

<p>In my opinion, this is the one time in your life when you will live in a self-contained world with a group of your peers – you have the rest of your life to find the landscapes in which you want to settle. </p>

<p>That having been said, Grinnell is what it is partly because of its location: the students who go to Grinnell really want to be there! They aren’t in it for the prestige back home, that’s for sure! We always say our son goes to school in Iowa at Grinnell, because if we don’t preface it with the location, people always hear “Cornell” instead…</p>

<p>In addition to the “preppier” nature of Hamilton, it has a huge East Coast focus in the student body, unlike Mac, Grinnell and Reed which are much more balanced in their geographical draw. Check out the differences in where the freshman classes come from on this website: </p>

<p>[Where</a> Does Your Freshman Class Come From? - Facts & Figures - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Where-Does-Your-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=191515]Where”>http://chronicle.com/article/Where-Does-Your-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=191515)</p>

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<p>I’ll throw in a plug for Hamilton. Nephew went there and loved it. I’m surprised that fewer kids do semesters abroad. He did, and had no problem making it work. I also think you’d find that the open curriculum does attract a critical mass of kids who would be similar in outlook to the other schools (nephew was on the world class curling team). </p>

<p>Also, I thinik it’s unfair to say Hamilton is more balanced geographically. New York is a big, diverse state. 34% of Mac students come from Minn, Wisc or Ill; 35% of Grinnell students come from Iowa, Wisc or Ill, so all three schools (as do most schools) have a sizeable local population. If you want to stay in the NY after school, I think the Hamilton degree would be better known and have a more robust alumni network than the other two.</p>

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<p>I stand by my assertion. Hamilton has a much smaller distribution of students from outside the Northeast while the other schools have a much greater distribution from outside the Midwest. I think that by virtue of their location in the middle of the country, these schools draw on a wider geography.</p>

<p>Grinnell also has a much higher percentage of international students and of students receiving FA which adds considerably to the diversity.</p>

<p>Hamilton is a great school; I’m not knocking it. I am from the East Coast, btw, and am very familiar with the NESCAC schools. My eyes were really opened, though, by our visits to the Midwest and the schools there. It is a different vibe than on the East Coast. The unpretentious Midwest friendliness combined with the progressive campus cultures was simply unbeatable, in my opinion, at least for my son, who wanted a different environment than our high school and our local community. I am thrilled that my son is experiencing a different slice of America - and so is he. </p>

<p>I am not trying to say that Hamilton isn’t a friendly place; of course it is. I have some further thoughts on the differences between a NESCAC school with Greek life and a Midwestern school without, but I won’t go into that here and get off track. </p>

<p>I have no idea where my son will end up when he graduates, and neither does he. But Grinnellians form a fierce loyal network themselves and Grinnell office of Career Development is great and has been getting even stronger under the new President. The opportunities and funding for internships are considerable, and Grinnellians can be found everywhere! Moreover, the school brings alumni back to campus to teach short, one or two credit courses, so the students can learn about real-world opportunities and life from those who have come before them…</p>

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<p>I would love to see a thread on this. I agree that the unpretentious culture of the Midwest is a huge draw for many people. For me, it’s what made me leave the East Coast for Chicago; for my Midwestern born-and-raised kids, it’s what makes them less than impressed with some of the status-consciousness they have found on the coasts. Of course this is not everybody, but there is a palpable difference and I think the various LAC cultures reflect that.</p>

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<p>Grinnell also has a very clearly defined sense of mission and I see this played out in the way it applies its resources. It is truly amazing and inspiring, at least in my opinion. The school puts its money where its mouth is literally and figuratively. I also doubt there is another school in the country where the administration is as open and inclusive in its strategic planning and decision-making as is Grinnell. This is not to say that the students and administration don’t have their disagreements; they do – and Grinnellians love to speak out!, but students are brought on every planning committee up to the Trustee level. The self-governance system is a unique one and contributes to the sense of community among the students, for it says that they are accountable to and responsible for each other. </p>

<p>This is getting off-topic… but it occurs to me that these are attributes of Grinnell that are distinctive. Not sure if they matter to OP or not, though!</p>

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<p>Macalester was actually one of my personal favorites of all the schools we visited. My son didn’t apply because he wanted a campus that was totally unto itself, even if it was in a city. At Macalester, the academic and student life buildings are on two lovely, albeit small quads, but the dorms are all on the city streets. He just didn’t like this about it. </p>

<p>So, I guess I contradicted myself about the importance of the environment and can understand where you are coming from OP. </p>

<p>Let me also say this to you: the most stressful part of this decision is not just what you say yes to, but what you say no to. There is a strong likelihood that you will be happy at any of these wonderful schools on your list, as long as you don’t second guess yourself after you’ve signed up, and go into the experience looking for the positives and remembering that life always involves compromise.</p>

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<p>NemesisNyx, what is it about Carleton that makes it such a clear number one for you? knowing that might help us help you, too.</p>

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<p>The Chronicle of Higher Ed. published data from 2011 that shows the geographical distribution of freshman for lots of colleges. Mac has a lot of international students from all over the world. The midwest is more diverse than a lot of people in the East think it is - and I’m from the east!</p>

<p>[Where</a> Does Your Freshman Class Come From? - Facts & Figures - The Chronicle of Higher Education](<a href=“http://chronicle.com/article/Interactive-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=173902]Where”>http://chronicle.com/article/Interactive-Freshman-Class/129547/#id=173902)</p>

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<p>Despite OP’s finding Mac to be a good fit for international relations, it’s clear that the small urban campus with dorms close to the street is not what OP wants. Plus, there is a lack of trees and hills. OP has stated elsewhere that MN weather is a negative factor and even had to make a big adjustment to NY’s weather from an Arizona childhood.</p>

<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1493202-carleton-vs-rice-vs-american-2.html#post15824991[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/college-search-selection/1493202-carleton-vs-rice-vs-american-2.html#post15824991&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

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<p>^^^^So how does that square with Carleton being OP’s top pick?</p>

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<p>They are not trees, but we had a lovely spring visit at Mac when the tulips were in bloom. We sat in a garden and drank smoothies, and it was really tranquil. Gotta say, Mac has a LOT more trees in the neighborhood than Grinnell, even though it is in the city. And Grinnell has train tracks through the middle of campus, we didn’t really like that very much. The thing about St. Paul is that it is not a big/icky city. Also… I cannot imagine saying yes to Reed if you have not visited. It has a vibe all its own, and I think kids know right away if it is right for them once they have spent a bit of time on campus. It is an expensive mistake to make if you pick it and it isn’t really your place/vibe once you get there… Also, Mac is incredibly strong in the IR field. I personally think you should go with Mac.</p>

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<p>I agree Reed is a major risk without visiting. On a spectrum you have Hamilton on one end and Reed way down on the other. The main allure for me with Reed would be Portland, and I think it would be very high risk for a lot of kids even they had visited. I see Grinnell and Mac as the middle choices and both great choices. That said, if you think you won’t grate against the social life maybe you are fighting too hard not to just go to Hamilton. I want to say I’d pick Mac but I haven’t seen Grinnell and as I said I couldn’t get my kid to apply there.</p>

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<p>Only on CC would people discuss which campus has more trees…:)</p>

<p>My son looked at both Grinnell and Macalester, which is his stepmom’s alma mater. He just didn’t like the campus and wouldn’t apply. <em>I</em> would have loved it, but he (and some other kids from his school, apparently) have found it too much like the neighborhood around their high school here.</p>

<p>He did apply to Grinnell and it was one of his top choices. The campus is really nice. It does have trees, but the center of campus is very open. Still, I think it’s the best choice for the OP based on what he has said…if he is willing to go out of driving range. Hamilton seems like a great school, although it isn’t well known outside of the East Coast. Campus looks beautiful from the photos, though!</p>

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<p>sally, for real, how many kids are going to pick their step-mom’s school??? :)</p>

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<p>MN’s weather isn’t a negative for me; I like winter well enough. I just said that as a Californian, going to Minnesota might be a big adjustment and could be a negative for that specific person. I was attempting to present all the angles to the OP on that other thread; that doesn’t mean that I have something against going to MN. Average temperature is about the same there as it is where I live now, and average snowfall is actually less. I don’t think it would be bad at all. 3 of the 4 colleges on my list are very cold, snowy places, but I don’t mind.</p>

<p>As far as what attracts me most to Carleton: It’s like all of the other colleges on my list without the cons (besides airfare). It’s in Minnesota, which I love as a state (summer camp there for 5 years), but not in a city like Mac. Beautiful campus. Nerdy and quirky. I feel like I would fit in better with the students there than anywhere else. I love the trimester system, and it would mean that airfare isn’t as bad only coming home for 2 breaks a year. People always talk about visiting a college and immediately knowing it’s the right place. Carleton is the only college I’ve experienced that at. I’m kind of in love with it. But, alas, the waitlist.</p>

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<p>Haha, finalchild. Not all stepmothers are evil. In fact she and I are good friends. :)</p>

<p>NN: If you liked the environment of Carleton you would like Grinnell. They are similar in many ways. I would bet my firstborn child on this, except that I don’t think you want that kind of responsibility at your tender age.</p>

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<p>It’s Friday. The choice must be Hamilton? Or a one week extension to visit Reed and its trees? OP’s preference for Carleton hinges partly upon the unusual 3 course trimester system used only by Carleton and Dartmouth. Life in the Twin Cities, especially in winter, is NOT summer camp in Minnesota.</p>

<p>[The</a> Trees of Reed College](<a href=“Trees of Reed”>Trees of Reed)</p>

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<p><a href=“http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1973/1101730813_400.jpg[/url]”>http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1973/1101730813_400.jpg&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>BS rhg - Even Time Magazine approves of MN!</p>

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<p>Wha?! I live in Saint Paul and I ride my bike. We do have hills. A heckuva lot more hills than south central Iowa. And we have a heckuva lot more trees than Iowa, too, including numerous large, stately trees on and around the Mac campus.</p>

<p>And Grinnell’s winter weather is, IMO, not appreciably better than Saint Paul’s, and Carleton’s is virtually indistinguishable from Saint Paul’s, the two being about 40 miles apart. The challenges of Minnesota winters are wildly overblown. I had some trepidation about moving here 10 years ago because of stories I’d heard about the winters, but it turns out the stories were wildly exaggerated. Yes, it can get very cold at times, but that’s typically for 2 or 3 days at a time, twice or 3 times a year–and much of that is in January, during winter break at Macalester. It’s not as if it’s -20 months on end. Average temperatures here are not that much different from, say, Middlebury, VT, or Hanover, NH, which coastal people don’t exactly avoid because of the weather. Just a lot of overblown mythology out there.</p>