<p>Say what? 650 a DAY? Sorry, but that is most definitely not normal. I have three teens, including two college students, including one total social butterfly, and she doesn’t do 650 texts in a month. Your idea of normal is way out there. Someone is spending very little time studying, doing research, writing papers, or is taking a very unchallenging set of courses in a very easy going college. My kids are on my plan so I know how many texts they send. Where are the OP’s daughter’s priorities?</p>
<p>That’s the whole point. The issue isn’t that young adults use text to communicate. I think we all agree that most do that these days. But 650 texts per day can’t be normal. I mean I thought my kid texted a lot at 50 per day (on this past month’s bill which i looked up after reading this thread…and I think that was sent and received). It just doesn’t come close. </p>
<p>Until I read the CC teacher’s post on this thread, I wasn’t aware that college teachers allowed texting in class (the CC teacher says her students text in class all the time). I just don’t see how a college kid has the time to text 650 times and in order to do that, can’t be paying attention in class (or going to class), doing the homework, or being involved in other campus activities such as ECs. Also, the OP says that is the number of texts per day on average and the D goes home to visit BF on weekends and doesn’t text much while there. So, these texts are on weekdays. She supposedly has a job too (must not be on weekends if she is leaving campus). So, if she is working on weekdays, in class part of the time, that must mean that every waking minute is on text messaging when not at work or in class!</p>
<p>If I recall correctly (this is purely from memory), the most texts I ever saw from either of my s’s in a month was around 900, and that was when he was one of the major organizers of an event. 650 a day is off the scales ridiculous and needs to be addressed. I hope the OP doesn’t get bogged down by all the side commentary about whose knickers are in a knot about verbiage is some posts, and focuses on the problems with dishonesty and poor time management by her daughter. If it were me, and I was this concerned, and the school was a less than 2 hr drive, I’d call the dau (or text her since that seems to be her preferred method of communication ) and tell her you are coming up to take her to lunch. An have a serious face to face conversation about the behaviors,and discuss limits. Call me crazy, but I don’t think this comes down to who is paying for what loan and whose name is on the car title. This is behavior very out of character for the daughter. If the OP has had a good relationship with her daughter then the OPs concern for her should be paramount. I am sorry, but just because she is now 18 doesnt mean the mom cares any less or that the dau is now magically more mature because the calendar says so. </p>
<p>And call me crazy again, but sorry, even though there are a variety of traditional and non-traditional students at community colleges for any of a variety of reasons, these schools are (speaking in generalities) simply not in the same ilk as the top tier colleges and universities. Be offended by my opinion, but it is my opinion, and I think I am not alone there. That said, students at any school should show the faculty the courtesy of paying attention in class.</p>
<p>Someone said it was condescending yesterday. I thought it was the teacher but could have been someone else. I repeated to defend CC. In this day, when there are so many ways young people can go wrong, some chose to attend CC. I am happy for them and would happily cheer for them. </p>
<p>My D, who is a high school junior, took a course over the summer at a CC. She was still away at a summer program during the first week. I sat in for her taking notes. I had a good impression of students and the institution. Their tuition is more affordable for many, their schedule more flexible. I definitely felt that CC’s provide oppotunities for many people. Tax money well spent as far as I am concerned.</p>
<p>PS, I’d be concerned about the excessive text messaging AND leaving campus every weekend to go home in fall of freshmen year. Both are not conducive to starting off her college career on the right foot.</p>
<p>Igloo-
Any chance you can take your concerns about consolation’s post (from many pages ago) backchannel so the thread can remain on topic? Thanks</p>
<p>Iglooo, forgive me but I can’t help saying that it doesn’t seem like you really took in the point being made. Consolation and others, including myself, have nothing against community colleges! Many applaud those who go, some who have had little support at home, or are non-traditional age students, have to work to support themselves and are trying to better their lives. The schools are indeed affordable and more flexible. And indeed they can be a stepping stone to something down the line. They are great. And some students who attend are very motivated, hard working and succeed and get great grades. As I said, I have taught community college before. I have also taught college for non-traditional age students. Some already had children of their own. I have a lot of respect for their efforts. </p>
<p>That said, I find it indisputable and not an opinion, that the graduation rate at CC is not as high as at a very selective university. As well, the entire student body at CC are not all motivated and hard working. The percentage of students with a strong work ethic is higher in a very selective university as a whole than at a CC. To be admitted to a selective university, one must prove their work ethic. To be admitted to CC, you may have strong work ethic, but you can be admitted without it. Anyone can go. SOME who attend are doing so as they didn’t achieve well in high school and need this intermediary step in their education. Others attend for other reasons (children at home, cheaper, balance with work, flexible, etc.) But the student body as a whole is very different in a community college than at a very selective four year university. Achievers are on both campuses. But the percentage differs. It just is what it is. It doesn’t denigrate those who go to CC. CC is a fabulous opportunity for many people. Nobody is discounting that fact. </p>
<p>Lastly, the community college teacher who posted on this thread stated that his/her students were texting all the time in class and never stop. I just can’t imagine that being permitted in a class that is not a huge lecture class at a very selective university. And those kids would not survive if they were doing so. And the fact is, the graduation rates at such schools ARE high.</p>
<p>It seems like you are defending community college when nobody has anything against community college! They were discussing the work ethic as a generality of the type of student body that can be admitted to a CC vs. a selective university and so you might find some differences in the “level” of the overall student body in these settings. </p>
<p>I can’t imagine that someone truly believes that the student bodies as a whole are similar no matter whether it is a CC or an elite four year college. They just are not. There are great students at both. There are some slackers at both. But the proportions of these students in these disparate educational settings surely differ.</p>
<p>To get back to the original issue: I think, OP, that if you confront your D in a hostile way about her BF and her “lying” you are just encouraging further deception. Of course if she perceives you as disapproving, and she’s an 18-year-old with her own car, she’s not going to inform you whenever she’s about to do something you don’t like. I may be in the minority here, but it seems to me hard to evaluate her texting by comparing it with other kids’ behavior. Some kids who don’t text all that much are just using Facebook, etc. instead. You don’t really know that she’s sitting in class sending texts. Every single “OK” or “Yeah,” sent or received, counts as a separate text so a long conversation with BF every evening could well account for much her usage.</p>
<p>If her attachment to her boy, her home, whatever, is indeed hurting her adjustment to college, that is a problem–but you’re not sure that’s the case yet. If this were my D I would try to talk to her sympathetically about my concerns. I would say that I was surprised and hurt to find out that she was coming home without informing me, and ask whether that was because she is afraid I would be angry, or because she herself is worried/ashamed about her own behavior. Listen to what she has to say instead of assuming that she is sneaky and flighty, especially since she seems to have been responsible and achievement-oriented in the past. Leave the BF out of it, and make it clear that it’s in her own best interest to succeed in school.</p>
<p>At the end of the first semester, you will have some solid information in the form of her grades. If they’re disastrous, then I think a more “disciplinary” approach might be appropriate. But right now, lowering the boom feels premature and disrespectful to me.</p>
<p>…And call me crazy again, but sorry, even though there are a variety of traditional and non-traditional students at community colleges for any of a variety of reasons, these schools are (speaking in generalities) simply not in the same ilk as the top tier colleges and universities. Be offended by my opinion, but it is my opinion, and I think I am not alone there. That said, students at any school should show the faculty the courtesy of paying attention in class…</p>
<p>juym, I am curious that you had to end your post with this. For someone eager to bring the thread back to OP. Also funny that you mention tier 1 schools. I have a guy who helps me with my yard work. Hard worker always on time. In this economy tanked by tier 1 graduates, he can’t find a full time job. His young wife is attending a CC to learn an employable skill. Now that we all agree no one can surpass work ethics of tier 1’s shall we ask them to learn some humility so that they don’t run the economy to the ground again?</p>
<p>Igloo, nobody is disputing that there are CC students with STRONG work ethics. There are!!! It is a matter of the entire student body as a whole compared to the student body where work ethic was a factor in admissions. The entire student bodies in a CC and in a selective college DO differ. There are strong students everywhere, however.</p>
<p>Am I not allowed to share my thoughts, igloo? I responded to several issues being addressed on this thread, in no particular order. What the heck does the lousy economy have to do with anything being discussed here. Our handyman (also a home restoration/remodeler) and another home remodeler/contractor are both engineering grads from major universities. Both are doing what they enjoy. So what. One happens to be a great guy, and the other a total jerk. Is this relevant? No. Neither is the stuff about “humility”. Could you PLEASE let it go and move on?</p>
<p>BTW, did anyone notice that the US News college issue (printed edition) has like 190 or so schools in their “top tier” and then it jumps to tier 3. When did that happen?</p>
<p>This thread has gotten very interesting
Nothing new to report on the daughter, except she text me once that she got an A on a paper & was really excitied. I text her back how proud I was.
I’m trying to stay calm about all the other stuff going on and not bring anything up until her father & I sit her down to discuss everything this weekend.
All I know for sure she is the car is staying home & I’ll be driving her back to school on Sunday. I will also be limiting her text allotment.
I am also leaning more & more towards speaking with the BF’s parents as well.
My guess is they don’t know as much as I do about whats going on.
I’m really nervous about talking to her. I hope she takes everything to heart and makes some changes.
BTW…she does go to a commuter school.
She says she is only 2 out of 9 girls in her suite style dorm that has a car.
Most girls live even closer to school then she does.</p>
<p>Also regarding the Parent Loan…We did get half of the 1st disbursment ck refunded to us and are holding on to that money for now.</p>
<p>regarding texting in class… and mind you, i didn’t have a cell phone capable of texting back when i was in college… but i would imagine it would be no problem to send a message under your desk or in your pocket. i could text you a message saying hello do you want to go out for dinner tonight on my phone without even looking at it just as fast as i could type that on the email, and i’m a 27 year old, not an 18 year old.</p>
<p>ls4218…that all sounds good to me. Your D has had some success in class (good sign) and you have decided to keep the car at home for the time being and will limit the text service on her phone. No need to dwell on the BF and let that play itself out. The goal is to have her focused on school regardless of the BF. Thanks for explaining that the school has lots of commuters and so she is not so atypical. I’m glad you and your husband will have a heart to heart with her. The good grade is something worth praising and ya know, there hasn’t been evidence yet that her grades are suffering. I would address lying. I’m glad you got to talk it out a bit on this thread and I hope you’ll post an update. Good luck to you.</p>
<p>OP, good luck with the approach you have chosen. Do not expect this to go well with her. It could but the chances that she will embrace a ‘tough love’ approach as an adult are slim to none. But if it’s what you believe in then I wish you the best.</p>
<p>One thing I’ve learned in dealing with the people who work for me as well as with my kids, it helps if you don’t back them into a corner. So rather than, “You lied to us and came home last week without telling us and now we can’t trust you” you might want to try, “We are all on the same page here- we want you to have a good college experience and keep up with your friends from home at the same time. So let’s figure out a way for you to feel connected with people back here in town without you having to drive such long distances in grandma’s old beat up jalopy- we worry about you being on the road alone in that car.” Or something like that.</p>
<p>I’ve found that people lie to you when their backs are against the wall. So don’t make statements which they can deny “You came home when you told us you wouldn’t” or escalate the drama “now we can never trust you” or “what kind of girl lies to her mom?”. Keep it on the “we love you and we worry about your safety” level unless you want her to feel even more pressured.</p>
<p>Good luck to you , OP! It sounds like you’re on the right track. I’m glad to hear that your husband will be a full participant in the discussion. I do think daughters sometimes respond to their fathers more positively and less defensively than they do to their moms when they need a bit of “reigning in”, especially if they are really close to their moms, as you two were (and still are, I’m betting.) It’s that separation thing. In any case, it’s great that you and your husband are on the same page and your daughter will see you as united.
Fathers can sometimes get the “we care about your safety and well-being” message across more effectively than moms, coming across as concerned and protective instead of being perceived as controlling mothers by our spirited daughters.</p>
<p>As the community college instructor whose words have been misinterpreted, I would like to clarify my points here. I have a facetious writing style, so perhaps I wasn’t clear. I didn’t mean to imply community college students are always texting in class. I meant most PEOPLE under 25 (or 27 as noted above) use texting as their primary method of communication- community college, Ivy league, high school, Pac 10, Big 12, whatever. And they are always texting in the sense that they text while they walk, while they eat, while they drive (you know it’s true) and yes, sometimes in class, but not in the sense that they sit through a whole class texting the whole time, or walk around texting all the time (just a lot more than we adults do). Just a quiet little surreptitious pocket text message here and there, but it goes on. And maybe you haven’t seen it, and maybe your kid doesn’t do it. but as I said before, the excessive texting is a symptom, not a cause, of some deeper issue for the OP’s daughter.
And I will take the remarks about the intellectual superiority and superior work ethics of the students attending “selective” universities with a big grain of salt. Of course they are fantastic human beings- they are your kids. I am sure they volunteer in Cambodia, and keep in touch with mom at all times, and never lie, and have so many ECs they can’t text. But their high GPAs, SAT scores, and multiple acceptances at top tier institutions do not make them better people than community college students. My students are from Cambodia, but they don’t Skype with mom, who doesn’t have a computer. There is one type of work ethic attached to getting oneself into Stanford, and another type attached to getting food on the table. Community college students often start there because they don’t have anyone at home guiding them through the college application process, let alone know what an EC is or how important it is to volunteer. That’s my little rant.</p>
<p>just one last point- why do some of you know so much about your adult children’s texting habits: how many they send a month, how many they send a day, who they send them to, and when. Why? Just get them an unlimited plan and stop stalking! Or have them pay the bill. I cannot imagine my mother monitoring my life like that when I was at college, or even in high school. What happened to privacy? Maybe you think if you are paying the bill, they have no right to privacy or trust. If that were the price I had to pay to have a free cell phone from my parents (“You can have a phone, but you can only send 200 texts a month and I am going to be checking 5 times a day to see if you are texting that boyfriend we don’t like”) then I would get a job and buy my own. It’s so intrusive, I don’t know what to say.</p>
) and tell her you are coming up to take her to lunch. An have a serious face to face conversation about the behaviors,and discuss limits. Call me crazy, but I don’t think this comes down to who is paying for what loan and whose name is on the car title. This is behavior very out of character for the daughter. If the OP has had a good relationship with her daughter then the OPs concern for her should be paramount. I am sorry, but just because she is now 18 doesnt mean the mom cares any less or that the dau is now magically more mature because the calendar says so. </p>