<p>"Whites in California score 40 points higher on the SAT Math than whites in other state. You know why? Cus they aren't racist like you.</p>
<p>Thank you! West Coast once again RULES!"</p>
<p>Uh...</p>
<p>a) math has nothing to do with race... at all. Not even close.</p>
<p>b) I got a 780 on my math portion. 40 points higher is statistically impossible.</p>
<p>west sidee you've got to be joking...</p>
<p>
[quote]
could someone just lock this thread, these never go anywhere. You could write the most beautiful and logical argument for AA and it would just be ignored
[/quote]
</p>
<p>I came to this realization many many arguments ago. You just have to cram it down their throat Genghis Khan style. Its the only way. =)</p>
<p>Flavius, we all know you're lying. Stop with the " Im not racist" act.</p>
<p>YOu are just good at hiding your racism with cute little sayings. Just come out and say it. Are you too scared to admit it?</p>
<p>West Sidee, coul you please refrain from these unfounded accusations......
You have to understand that individuals will not always agree with your beliefs. However, it is not a reason to lash out as frustrating as it may be.</p>
<p>You're not helping the stereotypes engrained in many individuals.....</p>
<p>Im stating facts:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>College Board throws out questions that Blacks do better than whites in.</p></li>
<li><p>Boston is a very racist city</p></li>
<li><p>Racist people will see what I said and ignore it or seek to disprove it. </p></li>
</ol>
<p>These are all facts Majayiduke09. Not beliefs. A belief is something like " I suspect College Board throws out questions that blacks do better in"</p>
<p>What we have here is PROOF and EVIDENCE. That makes it a FACT, not a BELIEF.</p>
<p>Sorry, I get anal with word choices sometimes. But clearly these are facts, and not "beliefs".</p>
<p>Im referring specifically to the attacks on FlaviusAetius--I dont perceive him as racist, merely as an individual with different viewpoints....Unless I missed something while reading the thread. The "you whites" comment is rather outlandish</p>
<p>It's just better to present your opinion intelligently as frustrating as it may become. Giving into your emotions will not help the situation.</p>
<p>I'm fine with the word "viewpoints".</p>
<p>But a viewpoint can be based on facts or fantasy when put into scrutiny by parties that disagree. Lets get that staight. </p>
<p>A viewpoint such as " Saddam Hussein was good for Iraq". That is a viewpoint. I am sure Sunni's believe Saddam was good for Iraq, and non Sunni's don't. </p>
<p>This is the same thing. Flavius likes Saddam and is against Affirmative Action, and I happen to disagree. Thats all.</p>
<p>"Flavius likes Saddam"</p>
<p>?????????</p>
<p>Dear Participants of the "I Hate Affirmative Action!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" Board,</p>
<p>It is in my judgement that this discussion has reached beyond the purpose of its intentions. I officially withdraw from this discussion. Thank you, and good luck on future arguments. My only suggestion is to base more statements on facts than emotionally charged words. </p>
<p>-- xokandykyssesox</p>
<p>j/k</p>
<p>sorry if this is repetitive as i only skimmed the 8 pages of posts, but . . . i bet a lot of people with 3.95/1340 and better, of all races, got rejected from those schools. life's hard. it's true.</p>
<p>west sidee...your posts are VERY one sided as well as outlandish to claim that everyone who didnt share your views are racist. There were some pro-AA posters whose posts were pretty one-sided, and they were met with heated responses, some of them which were actually yours. Your posts aren't much different from theirs.</p>
<p>What everyone seems to forget is part the reason why blacks, hispanics, native americans, etc. are given a leg up in admissions: DIVERSITY!!!</p>
<p>The workplace and everyday life does not only consists of whites and asains. I don't know about you guys, but I don't want to go to a school where EVERYONE looks like me (why I chose not to apply to an HBCU)</p>
<p>You also need to know that the urm's that are accepted in top tier schools usually only lack in SAT score, seriously. Most candidates that got in have the ec's, work experience, GPA, rank, etc that their white counterparts have. For example the valedictorian of my class is black and while her SAT's are in the mid 1300's she has literally ripped through AP and Honors classes with A's and enjoys a weighted GPA much higher than 4 (by the way, 65% is white and there are only three black kids in our AP/Honors circle). She is in at an Ivy and she, imo, deserves it. </p>
<p>It's like scouting a basketball player's shot at the pro's. You can measure how high he jumps, how tall he is, measure his wingspan (SAT's), but when it comes down to it, the deciding factor is whether the person is a great ball player or not (how they perform in tough classes while maintaining an extracurricular load). Most if not all URM's have put it down in the classroom and their race negates their SAT scores.</p>
<p>It does seem that if you are candid about the flaws in AA, you are labeled as a racist, usually by the same people who preach "tolerance" of everyone except you.</p>
<p>I found it delightful that one of the proponents of AA on this thread had this to say: "Why can't people take responsbility for themselves anymore?" Isn't that exactly what the anti-AA people are asking?</p>
<p>Quotas of ANY kind, be they gender-orented or race-oriented, beget the casualties of social engineering. My H was rejected from Stanford in favor of a female home ec major with lower qualifications who dropped out after her first semester to get married.</p>
<p>Yes, my H went on to be successful in his own right, but neither he nor anyone else will know what he might have done with that Stanford education. More, I suspect, than Ms. Home Ec major did with it.</p>
<p>What makes people grit their teeth about AA are not the kids living in their mothers' cars in the ghetto being plucked out and given a Harvard education, if that does indeed happen. It's the blacks named Cindy and the Hispanics named Sarah and the 1/32nd American Indians named Elliot who brag, yes brag, that they can coast a bit because they know their URM status will get them in and will get them money. I know a young woman who looks for all the world as white as Cate Blanchett who is going to Williams and being given piles of money to do it because she could check the URM box.</p>
<p>It will come back to bite in the end, you say? More likely it will come back to bite the rest of us. Graduation statistics don't, by the way, impress me. What professor at our liberal institutions is going to stick his or her neck out and ever, ever not promote a URM? Once out in the world, there are more opportunities to rely on this status for respectable employment. What firm won't rush to have the URM Harvard graduate as its token instead of giving the position to a highly qualified ho-hum white bread applicant, especially if it's a male. Our country is soooo over those white guys!</p>
<p>Depending on the career, perhaps all is well. But if the troubles at King/Drew hospital in Los Angeles are on anyone's radar screen, you might pause when you're being wheeled into the OR and check out the person holding the scalpel. What about the pilot flying the plane? All you folks blowing your horns for AA can have the docs and the pilots who got into school because they were a URM. Personally, I prefer the person best-qualified with no AA, no quotas, no meddling to create "utopia" where my personal well-being is at risk.</p>
<p>Yes, slavery was inexcusable, horrendous and the most shameful of many stains in our country's history. My ancestors ended up in this country because they were starving during a potato "famine" created by the British who didn't see the need for so many of those pesky Irish to remain living. No one gave them special consideration then, and I don't see anyone giving it now. I don't mean to compare that situation to slavery, but if we're going to discuss who has had the worst lot, then shouldn't there be AA for all Jews born since the Holocaust?</p>
<p>I agree that the culture of the SAT is one not all URM's can penetrate. Unfortunately, I think many of the ones applying to the top-tier schools are as conversant with SAT tutors as anyone else. There SHOULD be special consideration for any student with the desire to go to college but without the support system to prepare him or her for that experience. But couldn't these situations be dealt with on a case-by-case basis by teachers giving the colleges a heads-up when such students apply? And secondly are Harvard or Yale the only places for these students?</p>
<p>Why can't there be a middle ground about subjects like AA? One that allows for logic and reason and the possibility that the system, like any other, needs tweaking now and then, here and there? I hate to use the word, but could we please show some tolerance here?</p>
<p>Majayiduke09...i completely agree...what xokandy said was very insulting. At first I felt really put down, that someone would generalize all black people as playing basketball after school when I've worked my ass off for four years trying to make something of myself. However, I just take it as another ignorant person, don't worry you deserve to be at duke, although i'm sure you already know that. good luck w/everything.</p>
<p>Fact: College Board throws out SAT questions that Blacks do better than whites in,because they are considered to be an "anomoly". </p>
<p>Fact: Ignoring this FACT benefits whites over blacks. That is in itself, an advantage that is greater than all the years of affirmative action combined. </p>
<p>While I commend those that made it, I can't help but feel for those that didn't because they felt frustrated at the entire process and how everything was stacked against them.</p>
<p>Can you give us an example of a specific question that favored blacks over whites (or failed to favor whites over blacks) that was thrown out?</p>
<p>"Fact: College Board throws out SAT questions that Blacks do better than whites in,because they are considered to be an "anomoly"."</p>
<p>while I can't find any credible source that would disprove your theory that this is the reason why blacks have a significantly lower SAT score than whites and asians, I highly doubt thats the main reason. So basically what you're saying is that blacks and non blacks are INHERENTLY different, meaning that their brains work differently so that blacks as a race, analyze things differnetly than people of other races. That's a pretty far-fetched idea, and perpetuates divisions between races in this country. </p>
<p>I personally don't know why college board throws out those questions. Maybe they were just bad questions? I really don't think those are the ONLY questions college board throws out (I don't have any statistics to back this) but I'm pretty sure thats true.</p>
<p>
[quote]
Majayiduke09...i completely agree...what xokandy said was very insulting. At first I felt really put down, that someone would generalize all black people as playing basketball after school when I've worked my ass off for four years trying to make something of myself. However, I just take it as another ignorant person, don't worry you deserve to be at duke, although i'm sure you already know that. good luck w/everything.
[/quote]
</p>
<p>Thanks man. Good luck with your endeavors as well.</p>
<p>"A black person getting 1200 on the SAT is the same as a white person getting 1500 on the SAT because College Board throws out questions blacks do better in."</p>
<p>This is apparently West Sidee's own version of score recentering.</p>
<p>Maybe we need to grade URMs on a separate curve as well since we are all about helping them graduate at all costs.</p>