I have a few offers! Which university should I choose?

Student Lounge International Students
1

<p>Hi!</p>

<p>So I have applied to the University of South Florida (Engineering), University of Hertfordshire (Aerospace Technology with Management) (UK), Heriott Watt University (Mechanical Engineering) (UK), University of Glasgow (Aeronatical Engineering) (UK), Strathclyde University (Aero-Mechanical Engineering) (UK) and City University London (Aerospace Engineering) (UK).</p>

<p>I was accepted by USF for their Pathway Program (and received a 5,000$ scholarship), so Cost of Attendance is 34,980$. Also I was accepted by both English universities (Hertfordshire and City Uni). Tuition is 9,000 GBP + living costs. For some reasons (no Physics class) I was rejected by all three Scottish universities, unfortunately.</p>

<p>Now I have the following options:
1. Choose USF. The problem is that my parents definetely can't pay that amount of money. Cost should originally be about 32,000$ MINUS possible scholarships and that amount is simply too much, so I would have to take a loan. I would love to attend USF, but it's really expensive.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Choose Hertfordshire or City. Even there tuition is too expensive. Anyway, as an EU student (forgot to say, I am from Germany), I would be eligible to apply for Student Finance, who would fund the tuiton. I would have to pay that back after I earn more than 21,000 GBP. I would also receive a one time pay of 4,000 GBP for tuition purposes and monthly about 650 GBP for living costs from my home country, from which I would have to pay half of that amount back (but not more than a maximum of 8,300GBP).</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to a Community College in the US. CoA would be around 20,000$.</p></li>
<li><p>Apply to a College in Scotland and then transfer to the University of Glasgow or another well known university. There is no tuition at all in Scotland for EU students, so it would be free and I would receive 650 GBP for living costs from my home country.</p></li>
<li><p>Reject my offers in UCAS (Universities & Colleges Admissions Service for the UK) and go for UCAS Extra in which I could try to get into a Scottish university know; however there are few places left now, so that would be a risk as I would not have any offers any more in the UK.</p></li>
<li><p>Begin my studies in Germany and take two semesters in the US or transfer after a year or two. There is no tuition in Germany, so that and to attend a Scottish university would be the cheapest option. Anyway the German universities are not in any way comparable to the American or English ones, because it is simply about self-learning. Classes are usually 30+ and it is hard to ask your professor questions because of that amount of students.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>What would you say is the best option?</p>

<p>Sorry, it's quite long, but I can't decide.
Thank you!!! :)</p>

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<p>Oh, forgot to say, I could also apply to a low cost US uni like Chadron State College in Nebraska. CoA is about 11,000$, but it’s in the middle of nowhere and I’m not sure about the quality.</p>

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<p>Unless you want to stay in Germany (which I assume you don’t or you wouldn’t have applied abroad) I would go the college-> Scottish university, especially since your problem is lack of physics. You could take Physics and Further Math (or equivalent in Highers). Since colleges aren’t on UCAS, you could go through Extra in addition to colleges. In addition, Scottish colleges wouldn’t count as “college” for American colleges especially if you were
preparing some ALevel/Highers units, so you could apply as a freshman to American colleges if you still wanted to. You’d likely need to modify your college list though compared to this year.
What American universities did you apply to and what were your stats?</p>

4

<p>Let me summarize what I see, to make sure I get it right.</p>

<p>All of your American options are either too expensive or not worth attending. (Re American college financing: do you actually know for sure that you’d be able to get a loan in that amount? Last time I checked, the German student loan market wasn’t really set up to cover the cost of an American college education.)</p>

<p>You could finance an education at British universities with the various financial aid options available, but you’d owe a fair bit of debt after graduation.</p>

<p>You are attracted to universities in Scottland because they don’t charge tuition fees; however, you do not currently have an acceptance letter in hand. You could gamble for a seat at a Scottish university if you declined your British offers of admission. </p>

<p>Given your priorities, it seems to me that your best options are the following:</p>

<ul>
<li><p>Take your chances in the UCAS Extra round, and attend a German university if that doesn’t work out. You could probably transfer to a Scottish university after a year.</p></li>
<li><p>Attend a British university for now. You can decide later if you want to stay there or make an effort to transfer to a Scottish university after a year.</p></li>
<li><p>Take your chances in the UCAS Extra round. If that doesn’t work out, take a gap year and use the time to strengthen your application for Scottish and/or American universities. MYOS mentioned the possibility of attending a college in Scottland for a year to strengthen your science background. I’m not familiar with that path but it might be a good option if the application deadlines haven’t passed yet and you’d be able to afford it.</p></li>
</ul>

<p>

Introductory science classes will usually have more like 200+ students, but who’s counting? :wink: (You are absolutely right that most professors don’t make themselves available to undergraduate students in Germany, at least in my own experience. Is the situation better in the UK?)</p>

5

<p>@MYOS1634 Well, if there’s no other option, I will have to stay in Germany. </p>

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<p>I only applied to USF. SAT: 490CR, 560M, 440W; TOEFL waived. I actually do not know what my converted American GPA is, but since USF counted from grade 9 on and used a conversion table that is rigorous, I’ll assume it is 2.9. But, if I use other conversion tables, i.e. from SUNY universities, my GPA is far above 3.0. While my SAT scores seem to be very low, my average in German grades is much above the average.</p>

<p>@b@r!um</p>

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<p>Could I also transfer to an American university after a year?</p>

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<p>Yes. At least in English universities, since they charge tuition and thus are able to have a better student:teacher ratio.
What about the option to attend a Community College in the US or a low cost instituition like Chadron State College?</p>

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<p>You could only transfer to an American university if you could pay full fees. if you attend college anywhere, you’re a transfer for American colleges, and international transfers don’t get financial aid.</p>

<p>Chadron State isn’t worth it.</p>

<p>Community college = only if you choose a state with low cost state universities (since you won’t get any financial aid for your last 2 years). Right now, I think the State of NY may be your best deal.</p>

7

<p>I’ll second MYOS on the American transfer option: there’s very little financial aid for transfer students, and almost none for international transfers. (The best I have seen for international transfer students were half-tuition scholarships, at colleges that aren’t really worth attending. Except at MIT and the like, but you shouldn’t count at being admitted to an elite university.) So you’d still be in the same financial predicament. </p>

<p>If you really want to attend an American university, take a gap year, retake your SATs (or take the ACT) and re-apply as a freshman. </p>

8

<p>I think it is better to take the prerequisites for engineering in Germany (for free) and seek admissions at a few reasonable priced universities such as South Dakota State University.</p>

<p>Costs for International students at South Dakota are around $18576/yr +travel expenses. Don’t know if it is affordable by your family.
<a href=“http://www.sdstate.edu/international-affairs/admissions/freshman/upload/2013-2014-Estimated-Cost-for-Undergraduate-Student.pdf”>http://www.sdstate.edu/international-affairs/admissions/freshman/upload/2013-2014-Estimated-Cost-for-Undergraduate-Student.pdf&lt;/a&gt;
They have major fields of engineering
<a href=“http://www.sdstate.edu/engr/programs/index.cfm”>http://www.sdstate.edu/engr/programs/index.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Also, their their admissions are on a rolling basis, meaning there is no hard deadline; however, dates for applying for academic scholarships are well past (due Jan. 15).
<a href=“http://www.sdstate.edu/admissions/undergrad/dates-and-deadlines.cfm”>http://www.sdstate.edu/admissions/undergrad/dates-and-deadlines.cfm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Good luck.</p>

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<p>That still seems pretty unreasonable given what the OP has said (the SDSU cost). And let’s be real… I would not recommend that an international student who had options of similar cost or cheaper in Europe to come here and go to South Dakota to college.</p>

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<p>Stay in Europe. When I researched schools in Europe, I was amazed at how much cheaper the education is there than it is here. Options 5 & 6 sound like your best bet. </p>

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<p>@MYOS1634‌
I really did not know this. My counselor said that if I get good grades at a Community College, I would be able to get scholarships at many universities. Thank you!
What do you think about a California Community College? Costs are similar in comparison to the NY CCs, and then I could still transfer to NY State Universities, but at least I’d have two years spent in CA. But somebody told me once that it’s not guaranteed that I could transfer after two years in California.</p>

<p>@b@r!um
A gap year is no option for me. I would begin studying here, so that I do not loose that year. And who knows, maybe I’m gonna have better options then.
The financial “aid” here in Germany is horrible. After graduating I’m gonna have 10,000 Euro (ca. 13,900$) debt, just because of our system which is aid=loan.
Thanks.</p>

<p>@Trinity7‌
That’s basically what I thought about. Beginning here or in Scotland seems to be the best option.
So I think my options are now:

  1. Go for UCAS Extra or look for a Scottish college.
  2. Begin here and then go for an exchange year to the US.
  3. Choose an American Community College, if I find one which is not expensive, and do a fun year (especially for my English).</p>

<p>What I really worry about is that my English could become worse, if I spend two more years here in Germany without a single English lesson.
Thanks :).</p>

<p>@intparent‌
I also don’t think SDSU would be a good choice. But there’s Northern State University in Aberdeen, SD and it costs less than SDSU. Do you think that one would be good? They were awarded as a “Top Public School” by US News recently.</p>

<p>@Violet1996‌
That’s true, education is much cheaper here. At least when you talk about tuition. But that is why classes are so big, there is few research and professors absolutely do not care about you (Most professors say at the beginning of each course: “Look at the students on your right side and on your left side. They will not graduate with you.” In fact, drop out rates are over 50% in Engineering majors.).
Anyway, you are all right. It seems to be the best to begin here or in Scotland.</p>

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<p>You are going to want to research South Dakota before you apply to Northern State University. Be sure that any engineering school you look at in the US is ABET accredited. And classes are big at a lot of universities here, too, and lower tier universities aren’t doing a lot of research either… Just don’t assume US university = better than what you have at a relatively inexpensive price there.</p>

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<p>"My counselor said that if I get good grades at a Community College, I would be able to get scholarships at many universities. "
Your Counselor does NOT know what he is talking about!!
99% of all Scholarships are reserved for incoming Freshman applicants [and most of them are not offered to International students]
I highly doubt that any US college would offer a scholarship to a transfer student who is NOT a US citizen.
In the 10 years I’ve been on CC I have never heard of this happening. </p>

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<p>A number of colleges do give scholarships to international transfer students, but those are usually small compared to the cost of attendance (with the exception of athletic scholarships). Here are a few examples of scholarships advertised specifically for international transfer students:</p>

<p><a href=“International Student Scholarships”>https://admissions.uiowa.edu/finances/scholarships-international-transfer-students&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“Transfer Scholarships | Scholarships | Finances | Undergraduate Admissions | Seattle University”>http://www.seattleu.edu/undergraduate-admissions/finances/scholarships/transfer/&lt;/a&gt;
<a href=“http://www.drake.edu/admission/undergraduate/costsfinancialaid/typesofaid/scholarships/”>http://www.drake.edu/admission/undergraduate/costsfinancialaid/typesofaid/scholarships/&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

15

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<p>It’s actually quite generous if you think about it. A tuition-free education is already better than what you’d get in most other countries. On top of that, the government is willing to help students out with their living expenses so that they don’t need to work or rely on private loans. And you only need to repay 40% of that generous assistance (Kindergeld included), or even less than that if your post-college income doesn’t cross a certain threshold. </p>

<p>In the US, it’s quite common for parents to take out a second mortgage on their home to finance their kid’s college education. Have you ever heard of anyone doing that in Germany? Even the rich private colleges with generous financial aid policies (generous compared to other American universities) will package $5,000 of loans into a student’s financial aid package each year.</p>

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<p>The important thing here that you have not mentioned is your “END GAME”. In other words - Where,would you be living and working after graduation? What field in particular? and What county or countries is your Citizenship?
These are important factors that will greatly determine the outcome of this. Sure you can study anywhere with availability of funding, but that is secondary to what your "END GAME " is.
Best of luck to you.</p>

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<p>@intparent‌
Yes, I forgot to look at it. </p>

<p>@menloparkmom‌
Good to know.</p>

<p>@b@r!um
Besides the free tuition, there are fees one has to pay. It depends on the university (and if the state you are studying in charges tuition fees), so in fact one would has to pay between 500 and 1820€ (700-2500$) a year. But okay, you’re right, it may be worse in the US.
Could you please tell me how I can make quotes?</p>

<p>@ccco2018
I’m German and I do not have a real goal where I would want to work as long as it is not Germany. To work in the U.S. or the UK would be nice though, but I know that it is difficult to obtain a working visa in the US. Starting salary here in Germany for engineers is between 48,000$ to 83,000$ (depending on if you have a bachelors or master’s degree and in what particular field you’d like to work in). For me it would be the aviation industry.
Thanks.</p>

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<p>“What do you think about a California Community College? Costs are similar in comparison to the NY CCs, and then I could still transfer to NY State Universities, but at least I’d have two years spent in CA. But somebody told me once that it’s not guaranteed that I could transfer after two years in California.”</p>

<p>A transfer is not guaranteed no matter where you start. </p>

<p>“The important thing here that you have not mentioned is your “END GAME”. In other words - Where,would you be living and working after graduation? What field in particular? and What county or countries is your Citizenship?”</p>

<p>I completely agree with this. My children have dual citizenship. They could study or live in either the U.S. or Canada. They have lived in both countries and have relatives in both. The FIRST question I asked when planning university admission was - where do you want to live AFTER university? Everything else flowed from there. </p>

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<p>"The FIRST question I asked when planning university admission was - where do you want to live AFTER university? Everything else flowed from there. "</p>

<p>I would definitely say that I’d want to live in the US, but since that could be difficult with the visa issues, it is more intelligent to put a focus on the E.U., so I guess Germany, Sweden and the UK are where I have better chances.</p>

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<p>If you go the community college route, choose a community college that’s got an articulation agreement with your chosen university. For example:
<a href=“http://cals.cornell.edu/admissions/apply/transfer/transfer-agreements/”>http://cals.cornell.edu/admissions/apply/transfer/transfer-agreements/&lt;/a&gt;
Even today, you could still apply to SUNY Delhi, SUNY Canton, SUNY Cobbleskill, Alfred State… then transfer to Cornell’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences or get a 4-year degree from these or any SUNY.
California community colleges won’t have an articulation agreement with SUNYs, although you could always try that route.
Another idea is to attend a “college” (cegep) in Québec, spend a year working on your skills (especially Physics etc,) and apply again. Canada wants to increase its number of international students and it’s quite easy to get a work permit as an engineer or a stem major! However, a Scottish college preparing you for Highers may be easier for you. </p>