I know this sounds childish, but 'it's not fair'.

<p>I am from Asia and moved to Canada when I was twelve.
I finished my highschool there; although my gpa isn't that great, I was content with it because I worked for it.
But then I read an article that said some schools in Asia and other continents give all students A's
ex. if you get over 70%, its an A. And the although its an AP level class, the curriculum isn't that rigorous either. (easy tests.. etc)</p>

<p>So basically all the students who go there come out with perfect gpa,
while other students have to work for their gpa. The students there spend their classtime studying for the SATs - which is ironic, because why would you concentrate more on your SATs if you don't even live in the US?</p>

<p>although admissions isn't all numbers, gpa play a big role in our chances, and I feel like North America, or the world, isn't fair to everyone. I thought that everybody started from equal start line, but now I'm realizing that if you have the money, you can cheat your way out.</p>

<p>(The school is private and very expensive, so not everyone can afford to go; so the school administration is affected by the parents. The admin tried to raise the cut-off for an A to 85%, but the parents protested .. and so on)</p>

<p>Also, me and my friends stayed up overnight for a week before new years, writing application essays. But my cousin hired some Harvard-graduate to write his essays, so he was able to apply without even putting the effort in!</p>

<p>I guess 'm just frustrated by the fact that world isn't fair.
I've known it for a long time, but now I am really 'feeling' it. (don't know if I'm making any sense..)</p>

<p>I've talked to my parents about it, and they told me that that's just how it is, and that I should accept it. </p>

<p>I don't want to be stressed about this - could anyone give any advice on how I should look at this?</p>

<p>College admissions committees know what's up. I'm not promising that things are actually perfect, because of course they're not. But adcoms know what schools produce good students who are worthy of their high GPAs and what schools produce students whose grades don't match their later college performance. </p>

<p>Remember that the adcoms are looking at years and years of history with students from your school.</p>

<p>As far as the person who hired someone to write his college essays -- adcoms will see through that right away. If that person's English class grades are anything less than stellar (not to mention his SAT essay), it will be obvious.</p>

<p>Life is not always fair, but I truly believe that the cream rises to the top and the doodoo sinks to the bottom. Sometimes it takes a little time, but it happens.</p>

<p>Do the best you can, don't cheat, and you'll be proud of yourself for your entire life.</p>

<p>Well, it's true life can be unfair. </p>

<p>The billionaire's kid likely will get into a top school even if he/she has terrible grades. The current US President is a good example. </p>

<p>However, most admissionss officers at top schools know which schools give As for performance and which give As for tuition payments. </p>

<p>They also do admit students who don't have perfect grades but who distinguish themselves in other ways. </p>

<p>Still, you're right: it's not a perfect system though luckily there are many great schools to shoot for. In the meantime, if it makes you feel better to vent, go right ahead. It's partly what CC is all about.</p>

<p>not to hijack the thread, but Obama gets an "A" for running a soup kitchen?</p>

<p>research it. thats all he has ever really done....everything else has been manufactured.. chicago politics aside.</p>

<p>back to the thread, and a scolding to those who introduce politics.</p>

<p>what schools in asia are YOU hearing about? I've always heard that students in Asia are under more pressure. You even have to apply to most high schools, and basically take a different test at each school to see if you can get in. Students there spend more time studying than students in America. Also, parents there also put more pressure on students to get good grades and go to a good university because in Asia there are only a handful of "good" universities, whereas in America you can just attend your state flagship with little hassle.</p>

<p>in northern va youhave to get 94 and above for an a.. they are trying to change that but some kids say that hurts them admissions and scholarship-wise even though colleges should know nva schools grading policies</p>

<p>I come from an Asian country that follows the British system and grades to the curve (grade inflation is very minimal, much less than in Britain). I can't tell you what the other Asian countries are like, and I should add that I have been very privileged to receive the kind of education I've had - at each level of education here, I've been at the top public schools in my country. So my perspective has been colored by the excellent students I've been surrounded by all my life.</p>

<p>The reason an A is 70% here is simple - our compulsory public education standards are higher.</p>

<p>I've been wondering about this as well, because even as I witness the college frenzy going on on CC, I'm looking at the students we have here and I feel they are much more relaxed about applications than students in the US. Virtually no one is concerned about the SAT - we take it because it's required for admissions. SAT tuition is unheard of. (I realize this is not likely the case in China or Korea.). People borrow the blue book from the library, work through it (sometimes not even then), and that's all. The average SAT score at Andover is in the low 2000s; the typical Singaporean aiming for US universities looks to the high 2100s at least. Many achieve this score on their first try.</p>

<p>I say this not to boast in my own country's education system (and I am aware we have some huge advantages over applicants from both the US and other Asian countries - natively English speaking with strong math foundation - let's not go into whether being good at math is an Asian thing), but to point out that a lot of evidence suggests an A in Singapore is nothing like an A in the US or Canada.</p>

<p>About the actual coursework. You see that a 5 on an AP means a raw score of around 65%. Now just assume all our A Level classes are AP level (and I don't doubt they are - we get credit for them, just as you do for APs). ... Now what's the issue? Fact is, in Singapore, our equivalent of the AP (H2 A Level) isn't even the most rigorous curriculum. </p>

<p>The curriculum of both AP Physics B and C is covered in A Level H2 Physics, while H3 Physics covers relativity, quantum mechanics, ((solid state physics and photonics/quantum theory of light) OR (nuclear physics and sub-atomic particles)). H3 Literature in English, History or Geography require one 3500 word paper, with only a single consultation with a teacher permitted - everything else is done independently by the student (when I say independently, I mean independently. No tutors, no paying people to write essays - it just doesn't work in Singapore - no clandestine additional meetings with the teachers).</p>

<p>So if a student gets an A, it would be equivalent to getting a 5 on both AP Physics B and C. O Level Additional Mathematics covers what AP Calc AB covers, H1 A Level Math (worth 4 credits at most universities except Cal, where I'm told it's worth 8) covers AP Calc AB and AP Stats, H2 A Level Math assumes an O Level A Math background and covers both AP Calc BC and AP Stats. On top of that it also covers conics and complex numbers. (I'm not familiar enough with AP curriculums to know what actually is or isn't taught, I'm going by what I can find on the internet). Granted, the A Level course is two years, but we also have other required components in our education system - mother tongue proficiency by junior year (J1) - not as simple as it sounds because many speak English at home; compulsory PE every year, for another; a "project work" subject in junior year that lasts the whole year.</p>

<p>Hopefully that puts things in perspective for you.</p>

<p>P.S. I'm amazed at the AP World History curriculum. We spend as much time on the Kashmir conflict as you do on the whole of the Renaissance period. Not making any judgement here. It's just really different.</p>

<p>P.P.S. I think you'll find that many of our top candidates at the Ivies have at least comparable EC records to the most competitive domestic applicants, especially when put in context of our workload. I don't know how we find the time. Maybe schoolwork just comes more easily to us (remember, I'm not rolling in money or anything, but I've had what most would consider a privileged education - and yes, only educated in public schools all my life)... the more likely explanation though is that our education system is more centralized (we're a small country) and building a strong academic foundation is strongly emphasized in primary school.</p>

<p>I went to school in Singapore and even though you only have to get above 70 for an A, trust me it's more difficult than ANYTHING you've known in North America. </p>

<p>To the extent that people who got an S for chemistry (45-50%) scored 780 and above on the SAT II Chemistry test (same for Math, Physics etc.). About 20 people got A for any particular test (out of a class of 700, very competitive public), and the highest score hovers around 84, the same guy who won gold medal for Singapore Chemistry Olympiad. Every year only one or two guys will graduate with a 4.0</p>

<p>On the other hand, I've heard numerous complaints that there's grade inflation in America. Please don't assume that just because the grading system is different, it's easier to get A. The A Level system in Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore) - which is deemed equivalent to AP in difficulty level - is notoriously rigorous. Believe me you're not being disadvantaged in comparison to these candidates.</p>

<p>
[quote]
I went to school in Singapore and even though you only have to get above 70 for an A, trust me it's more difficult than ANYTHING you've known in North America.</p>

<p>To the extent that people who got an S for chemistry (45-50%) scored 780 and above on the SAT II Chemistry test (same for Math, Physics etc.). About 20 people got A for any particular test (out of a class of 700, very competitive public), and the highest score hovers around 84, the same guy who won gold medal for Singapore Chemistry Olympiad. Every year only one or two guys will graduate with a 4.0</p>

<p>On the other hand, I've heard numerous complaints that there's grade inflation in America. Please don't assume that just because the grading system is different, it's easier to get A. The A Level system in Asia (Hong Kong, Singapore) - which is deemed equivalent to AP in difficulty level - is notoriously rigorous. Believe me you're not being disadvantaged in comparison to these candidates.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yep, there we go. National Chemistry Olympiad gold medallist got an 84 in Chem? Oh, the horror! :P</p>

<p>Confused_vnese: what do you mean by 4.0? Straight As throughout JC (including/excluding MTL and PW)? That's seriously nearly impossible... I doubt VJ even has a student who managed this in my year.</p>

<p>P.P.P.S. We don't get credit for H3 Level work.</p>

<p>re: phantompong #7</p>

<p>Another advantage that places like Singapore has is that the students are more "uniform" and disciplined. Singapore has much stricter immigration policies (heck,stricter everything!) than the United States and much of the educational budget can be spent on actually teaching math/science/language rather than on remedial classes.</p>

<p>^ Singapore isn't known as "Disneyland with the death penalty" for nothing =p</p>

<p>
[quote]

re: phantompong #7</p>

<p>Another advantage that places like Singapore has is that the students are more "uniform" and disciplined. Singapore has much stricter immigration policies (heck,stricter everything!) than the United States and much of the educational budget can be spent on actually teaching math/science/language rather than on remedial classes.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Yes, definitely. I mean, we have as many people as the Boston metropolitan area, lol. The entire country's senior class in any one year is smaller than UT-Austin's enrollment. (I bet I know someone who knows confused_vnese...) It's much easier to implement legislation and to see its effects almost immediately. A great part of our budget every year goes to education (highest percentage after defense, I think) so yes, absolutely, that makes a big difference. </p>

<p>When educational standards are high grade inflation tends to be less of a risk, because people aren't as afraid to get Bs and Cs if they're a true reflection of their academic standards. (Bs and Cs? What am I talking about? More like Es and Ss!) Singaporean students would often RATHER get Bs and Cs and be pleasantly surprised after the exams that overestimate themselves early on; it's not uncommon for many top schools to set the benchmark for the exams much higher than it actually is and then see a massive grade jump during the standardized exams. A teacher told us that the average student at my school could expect to jump two grades per subject between the preliminary exams and A Levels (about 6 weeks) - a straight C student who doesn't slack off in those six weeks can look forward to straight As come March. (These exams are marked by Cambridge, and then graded to a curve by a central body when the marks arrive in Singapore, so grade inflation and varying standards across different schools are mitigated.) This would be unimaginable in the American context.</p>

<p>As for discipline, I think you'd be surprised... boy do I have stories of people cutting classes (including myself).</p>

<p>But anyway - Singapore is hardly representative of Asia. The OP's concerns about other countries might be valid, for all I know. I just wanted to get this out of the way, because I've done a lot of work to even get through this system, and I didn't want it to be invalidated by a rumour.</p>

<p>I have to admit, I read about the educational system in singapore and I wonder how my friend's family is adjusting to her husband's transfer there. Her son has some learning difficulties and before they left was facing self-esteem issues due to feeling like he's constantly playing catch up. I have no idea if he is going to public or private schools, but I just hope there is a tolerance for some learning disabilities or this kid is going to be really messed up.</p>

<p>Like the OP, I too moved from Asia to Canada where I finished my last year of high school. Never heard of SATs and APs then but I applied to the local university and got in. Life was so much simpler in those days! Through my sons, I am now sharing OP's anxieties about SATs and GPAs and college apps! lol. As a side note and OT, I paid $500 per year then; my older son's cost is $40k plus(tuition+room and board).</p>

<p>Thank you Phantompong and Confused. Your posts have been very enlightening.</p>