<p>DS is a serious and motivated student who works hard for his grades. He is in all honors classes and is with a lot of kids who have been identified gifted, clustered and given some other opportunities in elem. and middle school. Teachers love him, say he participates, asks questions, retake tests, always tell me how good his concentration is when the class is crazy. He loves being challenged but especially loves his honors geometry class and TEACHER.</p>
<p>Two future decisions have to be made sophomore year. The honors option is called "humanities" and it is Honors English and AP US History. You CAN'T take H. English without the APUSH. The APUSH is known to be very very hard with tons of reading and homework and many many SMART kids don't take it. He has been saying all along he wants to take it and there doesn't need to be any discussion about it. His current Honors Eng. and Soc. teachers highly recommend him for this and Soc. teacher said he would be disappointed if he didn't take it. I was totally behind him esp. since he is giving up football and switching to cross country. (less time-consuming) All teachers, parents and students say that Honors kids will be super bored in regular classes but that this is not a Pre-requisite for AP in junior and senior year. </p>
<p>However, the loved math teacher is promoting Elem. Stats (dual enrollment) for the high math kids. He would take this in addition to Alg. II. his grade has been one of the highest in all H. Geomentry. He thinks he wants to "go into" math. He is also an URM which may open some doors especially in STEM areas. </p>
<p>If you are still with me. 2 maths and his first AP class would leave no Study Hall. He wants to work hard now and have more art classes in junior and senior year. He will be in Spanish III but can't wait to be done. He will try-out for a select choir (probably make it) and miss some class time because of performances. </p>
<p>I welcome any thoughts, but especially...
Do I encourage him to follow his interest in math, even if it means taking reg english?
Do I let him specialize in math even though being well-rounded in upper level classes is soooo important?
Grade point may suffer in both options?
Do I just support him with his own decision because this really won't influence the college/career future</p>
<p>Statistics is generally an easier math course than what is found in the usual Algebra 2 - Geometry - Pre-calculus - Calculus college-track path. The teacher is promoting it but did he or she say that it would be difficult or time-consuming? The high-school or AP statistics course really isn’t required for the typical university math major. Math majors (and engineering majors) have to take Calculus-based statistics for their majors.</p>
<p>Perhaps you could ask his math teacher (or have your son ask his teacher) about whether he could handle the workload.</p>
<p>I understand that calc. is more valuable for college, but DS wants to take it because math is fun and he loves the teacher. After looking at some Dual Enrollment info on the school website, it doesn’t have much value as a math class, and may not even be accepted at private in states or out of state colleges. </p>
<p>I am good friends with the mom of a senior girl who is also a val. this year. The daughter is currently in it and said it is hard, and that her daughter is a “math-person”. However, the daughter took this instead of more challenging calc. because she doesn’t want to go into math related major.</p>
<p>My HS junior S currently takes APUSH and English honors, and he is a math/science student who is planning on studying engineering. There is quite a bit of reading - his school uses “Inventing America,” and as long as he stays current, it is not particularly hard - he is getting an A in the class. I can see that it would be difficult to catch up if for any reason he fell behind. You may want to find out which textbook your school uses and have your son take a look at it. If he is a good reader, he should be fine. Remember that they must finish the book in order to be ready for the AP exam. </p>
<p>My son took the calculus track - he was accelerated, so he’s already finished with his school’s calc. This year, in addition to a college level math class, he takes AP Stat. For engineering or math, it is probably best that your son take calculus and save stat for an add-on his senior year, if he has room in his schedule.</p>
<p>AP or high-school statistics is a relatively useless course for STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) major. The usual requirement is mathematical or engineering statistics and that class usually has calculus 2 as a prerequisite.</p>
<p>Two semesters of calculus are generally required for an undergraduate degree. Some schools allow alternatives. STEM majors usually have to take at least two semesters of Calculus (for science and engineering students). Other majors often only require Calculus for social science major or Calculus for business majors - easier courses but they are still calculus.</p>
<p>There’s nothing wrong with taking a course for fun but it might not be the most efficient route to take. Other possible considerations: join the math team where he will get to work on puzzles. Perhaps sign up for a course at AOPS. The strict path of high-school mathematics isn’t always the best way to develop a math career - oftentimes working on puzzles is an out-of-the-box way to develop mathematical talent.</p>
<p>As the parent of 2 college STEM majors, I second what BCEagle says. Stats is not necessary in high school. Particularly because your son wants to, let him take the APUSH. And encourage him to sign up for math team. My kids got so much out of that, particularly the chance to have a group of peers who were similarly interested in math.</p>
<p>Does the Honors English require a lot of writing?
Honing the writing skills early will make it easier to crank out college essays.</p>
<p>Is your son a fast reader? My son goes to school in NJ which requires 2 years US History. APUSH is taught over a 2 year period, but both years require quite a bit of Reading and Writing. My son has great memory and analyzes very well, but the amount of reading is difficult because he is a very slow reader.</p>
<p>My son is in 10th grade - 7 courses - 1 AP, the pre-APUSH, and the rest honors, no study hall - 3 main ECs – earliest ever home from school is 5:15. It has been a difficult year for us. He stays up too late trying to complete homework and then can’t wake up in the morning. He is also ADD and starting homework at 9 pm 2 nights/week due to ECs. </p>
<p>With my hindsight, if I were you, I’d would not permit son to take the DE Statistics.</p>
<p>That said, I didn’t approve my son’s 10th grade schedule. He is stubborn and I let him do what he wanted. Better to learn his limits now then in college.</p>
<p>If you look at most basic requirements for tippy top schools, they advise: 3-4 years of math (Alg, Geo, pre-Calc, Calc A/B and/or B/C). Statistics is not usually in that mix. I always assumed it’s because it’s not necessarily a college prep course or that you just take it in college. They also like to see top math students are also balanced with top English & History. That would be my advice: take calculus and AP Eng and APUSH.</p>
<p>That is what I wanted to hear, but I don’t want him to feel like he doesn’t get to make the decisions. I also don’t want to put limits on his desire to learn new things If he ends up in the math class, I will make sure he knows it is for fun like an elective but isn’t necessary upper level. He would be in there with seniors who don’t take Calc or College Algebra.
He is still mad at me for not letting him double up on science this year. I talked to his 8th grade science teacher and then told him not a good idea. A very busy football season and a transition to highschool where 92% is not a 4.0 anymore.</p>
<p>Elite schools will definitely want to see calculus, and if he is serious about math , he’ll want to have gotten through that in high school. Stat is a great thing to have too and is relevant in sciences and just in life, but I wouldn’t advise taking it at the cost of honors courses. Math team, if there is one, might be a lot more fun too.</p>
<p>AP stat is <em>the</em> easiest math course I have ever taken in my life. It’s good to have credit for because a lot of college majors require STA 2023 or an equivalent. APUSH was also easy, but requires more critical thinking. The most work-ridden AP class I have taken so far is the AP Lang and Lit series, and only because they require so much writing and reading of entire books on your own.
As an engineering major now, I wish I had taken AP Physics, above everything else.
I did the following:
AP Lang (jr yr)
AP USH (jr yr)
AP Lit (sr yr)
AP Stat (sr yr)
AP Calc AB (sr yr)</p>
<p>If your son is very passionate about math and science and will want to major in something that applies them, he should definitely take calculus. Stat is optional, but a good plus to have credit for if he can fit it in his schedule. APUSH is more for developing critical thinking skills (mainly because of the way the questions are made and the essays needed). </p>
<p>So… As long as he takes AP calculus and AP Lit and Lang (which will spare him from freshman english comp), he will be much better prepared for college, and enter with credits already earned.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t look at taking stats “instead” of another math class–It should be viewed as “in addition to” another math class. It is a great opportunity for students to learn to think and write critically if it is taught like the AP. If it is more like a class that concentrates on the math, then skip it. Bright kids could do that kind of math in middle school.</p>
<p>That being said, look at the reputations of the teachers that teach each course to see if one might give a better experience. Kids at my high school don’t have to choose between AP Stat and AP Eng or APUSH. Also, all of the best students (those in calc BC) have all taken AP Stat by their junior year and thus apply to college with 4+ years of math.</p>
<p>If he takes AP classes, he won’t even /need/ the study hall hour. AP classes give little to no homework, they focus more on teaching college-style rather than giving busy work. Reading a book for AP Lang can be done a chapter every night before bed, and the writing assignments seldom take more than an hour.<br>
I bored myself to death in the afternoons my senior and junior years wishing I had taken something more challenging, but it didn’t exist. He can definitely play a sport and do whatever he likes while taking AP classes. The more, the better.</p>
<p>I am not seeing the problem here. He takes APUSH and honors English because the teachers recommend it. He takes statistics if he likes as well. If it all turns out to be too hard he can drop the statistics. My math guy grumbled about being in APUSH, but thanked me later when it got him out of history in college. His school does APUSH in one year, and while it was a fair amount of work, he still found plenty of time to come home and play on his computer a couple of hours every day. My kid was a fast reader. I agree with everyone else that Statistics is not part of a normal high school sequence. In our school AP Stat is generally taken by seniors instead of AP Calc, though some take it along with AP Calc.</p>
<p>Your son needs to take the most rigorous curriculum for the top schools and a regular English class would hurt him. But, frankly, it’s not that much of a challenge to take Honors English, APUSH and stats in the same year. </p>
<p>During my son’s sophomore year, he took Honors English, APUSH, AP Stats, AP Physics, Precalculus plus gym and physics lab; he also took an online honors language class and chemistry at the local university and taught himself calculus because he was bored in pre-calc. He was ENERGIZED, not burdened with this class load, because it challenged him.</p>
<p>So-called easier classes are not always easier for smart students: there’s too much focus on obedient but mind-numbing busywork in those classes, rather than true learning. True learning energizes and helps build self-confidence. I’d be happy to take a chance at a B or two for a more engaging curriculum (although my son got As in everything) rather than playing it too safe right upfront and never letting your son stretch his abilities as far as possible.</p>
<p>I have to agree with a lot of posters here. Stats should take a lower priority than the other classes discussed here. While the other classes may see like overkill to someone who wants to major in math, those classes will give him a better chance of competing for admission to better universities. For better or worse, taking rigorous English courses will help you score better on the SAT or ACT since both tests emphasize English skills more than math (which flies in the face of educators and politicians who say they want to encourage students to consider math and science majors - but that’s the subject of another thread). Even as a potential math major, he will need to perform very well in English type subjects and eventually the SAT and/or ACT.</p>
<p>I don’t see a whole lot of value in a study hall, and I’d agree that honors English is more important than AP Stats, but if he can take both, go for it.</p>
<p>Congratulations to your son on his accomplishments!
I am just wondering about the motivation of the math teacher in suggesting the stats course. Is there pressure to get kids into dual enrollment because of a funding stream?
I agree with the others that stimulating his math mind would be much better served on a math team, Junior Engineering and Technical Society, or similar activity. He could also look at MIT Open Courseware for a math course. It’s free!
Stats at this level will likely be “cookbook”. At our school, dual enrollment, when there was funding for it, was great for the “kids in the middle”, not so great for the highest achieving kids.</p>