I refuse to take out a loan to pay for the children's college

Parents Forum
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<p>This is what I did. Since the kids’ car was paid for, I don’t have collision or comprehensive insurance for it. It was cheaper to have the kids on that car with only the required no-fault auto than to have them on my newer car that has full coverage. In fact, when they added my son, they accidentally added him to my car and the insurance skyrocketed. We worked that out, got him on the old car and it went down significantly again. Adding a second car also gave us a multi-car discount and I’m actually paying less. The kids’ car gets better gas mileage than mine so when they drive to school, it is cheaper than when I drive them. They drive half as many miles as I would have to drive because I had to drive them there, drive back home, drive there again to pick them up and drive back home again. It’s 6 miles one way so each band practice was 24 miles which equals 1 gallon of gas for my car. For their car, it was only 12 miles for a car that gets 30 mpg, so it’s less than a 1/2 gallon of gas. They also don’t have to sit at school for an hour until I get home from work, which means they can start dinner. It’s a win-win-win-win for us. I could have junked that car when it needed a new engine, put a new engine in it for $2500 and sold it for about that, or put the new engine in for $2500 and kept it for the kids. The latter option has worked well for us. It also allowed my D to work and she definitely made more babysitting 50 hours a week all summer than I paid in insurance. </p>

<p>My standard has been to give them one tank of gas per pay period, to cover getting to and from school, ECs and work (10 gallon tank, so around $35 every two weeks). Anything over that, they have to pay, so if they drive around a lot for social things, it is on them. </p>

<p>I see college the same way. My D has worked since she was 16. She’s working at school too. She’ll be working two jobs for about a month this term. There is no lack of work ethic. Both of my kids get a certain amount of clothing from me, can earn money doing certain chores (some are expected-laundry, kitchen duty, trash, others are pay worthy- like lawn mowing and shoveling snow). We share a lot of costs for special things like prom and homecoming, always negotiated in advance so they know what I can pay and what I won’t. </p>

<p>With everything, we function as a cooperative family unit. I provide what I can and do what I can. They provide what they can, cover their extras, and do what they can around the house too. We’re in it together whether it is financial needs, housework, or college costs. That said, I wouldn’t take $60K a year in loans. I wouldn’t pay if they weren’t putting forth their best effort. I say I’m not paying for weddings, but I’ll probably cover something if they really want a big wedding. </p>

<p>My son got his prom tux for free last year. He wanted to go to the junior/senior prom as a sophomore so he asked senior girls until one said yes. He was a class rep for the tux place, got enough “referrals” to get his tux free. He paid for the ticket. I told him I would cover the flowers and buy him some nice dress shoes (tux shoes are awful for a kid with EE wide foot and he needed new dress shoes anyway). We work together to make things happen.</p>

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<p>I agree that if the child IS able to work but refuses, there is no reason the parents should feel obligated to go into debt for such kiddos. CC and/or in-state Us are good options and said students can decide whether that is what they want or whether they plan to work so they can transfer elsewhere. Our kiddos mostly did work when they were physically able to and were able to obtain jobs.</p>

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<p>I agree that if the son is able to work, but refuses, that is an issue.</p>

<p>The OP also mentions that the oldest was recently in a car accident and the car is being repaired. If the accident was his fault, then I would expect him to pay for whatever out of pocket costs there are…deductibles, increase in insurance, etc. </p>

<p>If he drives places other than school, I’d make him pay for the gas. He may be more motivated to work if it’s the only way to pay for the things he wants (video games, car privileges, etc). Where does he get his pocket money? If he gets an allowance, then maybe that needs to be reduced or eliminated.</p>

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<p>SteveMA- I think my point is not that parents should be expected to absorb the full cost of college, but that it is reasonable for them to help make ends meet if they are in a position to do so. I think it is great that your children were able to fund 100% of their college education. But I would submit that this is the exception rather than the rule.</p>

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H would drive the old car and let our kids drive the new car because he would want the girls to drive a safer car.</p>

<p>I think if you are middle class, it would be very hard for your kids to fund 100% of their college education. If sending your kids to college is important, I wouldn’t count on their education to be paid for by someone else, and that’s what it comes down to. There is no way an 18 year old could afford even the cheapest college without some sort of scholarship, and someone has to fund that scholarship. If I am able, when it comes to my own kids, I would rather count on me helping my kids than someone else.</p>

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<p>Oldfort – will your husband adopt me? I could use a new car :)</p>

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<p>He would make you good food too.</p>

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<p>I am available for adoption. I have no living parents :frowning: And I am not a fussy eater</p>

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<p>We feel that any sacrifices we make as parents to make college happen should be matched by equal (in relative terms) sacrifices from the kids.</p>

<p>We saved since before first D was born, bought a smaller home, keep our cars longer than most, carry no loans other than mortgage, and just live a “smaller” life. In return, we expect our kids to have jobs as soon as they turn 15, save 75% of their earnings for college expenses and books, work hard in school, and seek out scholarship opportunities. Both have stepped up and done all of the above.</p>

<p>We bought our kids a reliable but inexpensive used car to share (we live in a somewhat rural area so a car is absolutely necesary) and we cover gas to and from school/jobs and insurance. When both are home, they have to work out the schedule which often means one drives the other to and from work/class.</p>

<p>Older DD has been car-less the past 3 yrs in college. When D2 goes away next year, car will go to D1. She does not have access to public transportation and it gets tricky getting to the grocery store/practice/etc. She will be responsible for all gas and insurance. We will ask for a nominal payment and transfer title to her.</p>

<p>D2 will probably not have a car at all in college, but will have access to better public transportation than is available at D1’s school. </p>

<p>With our combined efforts, both will graduate debt free.</p>

<p>I think that the lessons in work ethic, responsibility, goal setting, cooperation and living within your means learned as a result of our chosen path will be as valuable as (if not more so than) the education itself. And hopefully, both will enter the workforce ready to work hard and without an overblown sense of entitlement.</p>

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<p>Nrdsb4–I don’t think it is just CC land that getting significant scholarships happens. I think it is less common in CC land actually because of the number of people that think you have to go to a top 20 school…</p>

<p>Honestly, I don’t think it is hard at all to get the scholarships needed, along with summer job money and pay for all of your tuition. We have had 2 kids go through, both were able to come up with enough in scholarship money and summer job money to pay for their schooling. We paid for books a few times because we wanted to. They got on-campus jobs that brought in enough for spending money–not work study, just on campus jobs. We have 2 more going off to college next year. Between the 2 of them they applied to 19 schools. Out of those schools, just merit alone, 3 of them are out of reach financially for them, the rest come in the ball park of what we decided was doable for them. That number is affordable for pretty much anyone really, even at the lower incomes because the number just isn’t very high. At DD’s chosen school they gave her a very nice academic award–basically covered 1/2 of the COA. That was an automatic award for GPA and ACT. Her scores are good, but certainly not Upper Echelon. Then she got another award for her sport ($4000) so not huge but not bad either. She gets another $1000 for a letter of recommendation from our parish priest and if her brother attends, they both get a nice discount. DD is looking at out of pocket costs of about $9000 right now, but, is up for a full tuition scholarship. If she gets that, her out of pocket is $200. She is a finalist for 2 outside scholarships as well. If she gets those, she will have to turn down some funds from the school because she will be over the COA. At 5 other schools she applied to, the funds work out to be pretty close to the same. So, out of 4 kids and about 40 schools, all but about 5 of those schools the kids could have paid for all of their schooling out of scholarships and summer earnings. I don’t call that hard at all. Oh, and our oldest with his 2.8 GPA and 28 ACT certainly isn’t “upper echelon” but found a school that was affordable for him. He is now out of school and gainfully employed in his major area…started his job about 3 months after graduation, about a month after he started applying for jobs.</p>

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<p>As for kids having jobs, during the school year we have discouraged our kids from having jobs. They simply don’t have time. Between school, sports, band and homework, they are on the go from 6:00 AM to 9:00 PM. In the summer they have a part-time job and will be able to continue with that job through college years if they want, which is really nice. DD’s earnings from that job will give her enough spending money through the year. Her other “job” will be working on her sport. DS will probably pick up another part-time job.</p>

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<p>I was very lucky in college to have the best job ever. It was on campus, in the intramural sports department. I could go to class, come work for a couple of hours, go to another class, come back to work, etc. In the summers, I worked full time there while taking a class. It didn’t pay my way through school, but it certainly helped.</p>

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<p>Nrdsb4–on-campus jobs are pretty good. I had a similar job-athletic trainer. I “worked” 40-50 hours/week, however, MOST of that time I was just in the training room doing my homework. I was busy for an hour before practice and an hour after but those 3 or so hours between was all study time. It was great. I got to travel with the teams too :D. It did help pay my way through college as I was 100% on my own through college, for everything.</p>

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<p>How about this–don’t pay for your kids college, because it’s for “them”–but give your kids the money they will need to pay back the trillions of debt they will be paying off over their lifetimes because “we” (we being baby boomers) haven’t paid our way for the last 25 years. In my opinion, my kids’ generation will have it worse than any in a long time. Big loans for education, lousy job prospects, public debt that wil never be paid off, deferred infrastructure, etc.</p>

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<p>OP, in one thread after another, it is increasingly sounding to me like you don’t want your S to go away to this private school, period. I can certainly understand that his reluctance to do anything to get a job or apply for scholarships to contribute to his expenses combined with the financial strain it would put on your family makes it an unattractive prospect. </p>

<p>Instead of planning how to get there for accepted students’ weekend, it sounds like you and he and your H ought to sit down and thoroughly discuss it, with the idea that unless someone presents a practical plan for meeting the cost without debt on the part of the family, the private school is off the table and he should be making plans to attend the state U.</p>

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<p>“Personally, I think it’s silly to talk about debt being bad on principle. I wouldn’t have any problem taking out a 30 year mortgage when I’m 52 if I could afford the payments and thought the house was a good value.”</p>

<p>My 90 yr old+ uncle bought a new home last year and took out a 30 yr. mtg. It’s very cheap money at the moment.</p>

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<p>What bank loaned a 90 year old person money on a 30 year note???</p>

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<p>^</p>

<p>It’s illegal for a bank to discriminate because of age. </p>

<p>[Youre</a> Never Too Old For A Mortgage | Bankrate.com](<a href=“http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/never-old-mortgage-1.aspx]Youre”>http://www.bankrate.com/finance/mortgages/never-old-mortgage-1.aspx)</p>

<p>He still owns his business and obviously is perfectly qualified financially to get a loan.</p>

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<p>If the person put up enough of a down payment and the property had enough value in excess of the amount of the loan and the mortgage was primary, I’d CONSIDER making a 30-year loan to a 90 year old person. I have read that in Japan, there are 50 year mortgages!</p>

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<p>SteveMA, could you put some hard numbers up to explain how your kids are affording tuition, room and board for college (and specify what level/type of college we’re talking about) with scholarships and summer jobs? Are they taking out full Stafford loans? Getting Pell grants? If it’s that easy for every kid to pay for college on his or her own, you should be enlightening us in more detail, because this entire forum would become unnecessary. (Perhaps at least an “anyone can pay for college–it’s no big deal” thread would be in order.) And please don’t include a sports scholarship in your calculation, since most students would not qualify for one. Please also explain how outside scholarships, which generally only cover freshman year, figure into this equation. You mention that one child has a $9000 COA shortfall. That would be an impossible obstacle for most. How is this kid overcoming it?</p>