A friend I’ve known for 30 years just posted on FB asking for help finding loans for her daughter, who’s a senior this year. I messaged her to ask the details, and it goes like this:
Cost of attendance: about 65k
Financial aid package, including fed loans: 35k
She wants to borrow at least 30k, each year, for her daughter to attend a particular college. I asked if her daughter had other options, and the answer was yes, but that her daughter really loves this school, and she wants to give her daughter what she wants.
My friend is a single mom and does not have a high income, but is planning on getting a second job. Even with that, I don’t see how they could pay back about 150k in loans – and even if they could, I honestly don’t think they should. I know it’s none of my business, and that it’s their decision. But I’d have felt like an awful friend if I didn’t say I thought that was too much to borrow. I was gentle about it, and understanding, but she’s very upset with me now and not speaking to me.
I’m not used to drama, and I feel awful that my friend’s upset. Anyone been in this situation before?
I was kind of in a similar situation but the total was less. I was perhaps a bit more passive aggressive about it (a specialty of my state) by sending them links to financial aid calculators etc and working into conversations " As you know, it is a bad idea to have loans that total more than your first year’s salary. How much do people in x major make?"
edited: It is really hard to sit by a watch a potential train wreck. She may not even be able to borrow that much if her income isn’t high.
Quite a number of years back, my niece (husband’s side of family) asked to sit down with DH and I to talk about cosigning for college loans. She wanted to be a teacher. She wanted to attend a private Christian university in Idaho. The current cost of attendance is about $36k. I think at the time it was closer to $20k/year.
In advance of our sit down, DH and I checked out the local university that she could commute to while still living at home. She could’ve worked part time and taken federal loans only and graduated with just that debt. Yes, it has a teaching program. We created a spreadsheet to show how the private loan amount would encumber her as she graduated.
Want to guess how that conversation went? She slammed the door quite hard as she stormed out of our house. We weren’t willing to cosign, and we wanted her to realize how that much debt would impact her.
My FIL/MIL consigned for the loans. I frequently get calls looking for either her or my FIL/MIL so I assume she’s behind or delinquent in some way.
To her credit, she has a stable teaching job, a masters degree and a house. And a roommate. And a very small circle of life because…debt.
Another friend came to me about four years ago when her oldest child’s financial aid offer came from the state flagship. Full federal loans and parent plus loans. I asked her if they’d saved in 529s. She said they didn’t but they’d instead spent $ on yearly vacations (yes, that is what she said- in a sentence.)
A coworker takes parent plus loans out each term for each of his three kids. He has oodles of debt.
I avoid IRL conversations about student loans. Holy hell some folks just don’t understand what that level of debt does to a person’s future. Emotions run high. They make their own (horrible) choices. Your friend doesn’t want to hear it. It’s only a few weeks until May 1, so she’s just realizing what that means. I would never make that choice, but I’m not a single mom. I can’t live other’s lives. She asked for advice; you gave it. Not much more you could or should do.
OP you did the right thing. And your friend will be back and if not no loss really. You gave her good advice. You tried to help her. It is her problem she wasn’t ready or able to accept your point of view. Sleep easy at night. Don’t spend another second thinking about it in a negative way. I am 100% in your corner on this one.
OP posted - “I know it’s none of my business” Exactly right, she asked for suggestions not opinions. If I said I didn’t know which color Mercedes to get and asked your opinion, a friend would say something like, “The blue is pretty, but so is the silver.” They wouldn’t tell me not to buy the car. We are grown ups - we make decisions - we aren’t looking for parental advice. I find one of the most awful things about cc is how many people tell others what they should or shouldn’t borrow. Sometimes you spend money to make money. Investing in your kids can be the best thing to do, for some. Maybe not all, but it is their choice to make.
Where I grew up and to this day, people can’t see past the station they are in - and they stayed there their entire life and so do their children. If someone wants to give their kid the moon and the stars in anyway possible - that is their business. Telling people they should or shouldn’t borrow is not someone else’s business.
@scotlandcalling Friends should not remain silent when one party wants to do something that could ruin their lives. The friend’s daughter can get just as good prep for a career at a local university.
I always tell D that if the people who love you and know you the best are telling you things you don’t want to hear-- it’s best to step back and throw out some objectivity and review the situation again for clarity and truth. Do that before you get angry.
That kind of debt is long term pain for temporary fun and gain. It’s sad.
You tried. It wasn’t your business because she didn’t ask specifically for opinions on loans. She may or may not come around. Apologize for butting in-- but don’t apologize for what you said.
@scottlandcalling 100% agree with you.
Immediate family is one thing. It I would never dream of giving my opinion on this type of thing to someone. If OP disagreed with the loans or had no suggestions for her friend then she should have said nothing at all.
We’ve made decisions for our family that work for us and I absolutely despise when a friend self righteously tells us why we are making the wrong decision.
Personally @Pheebers I would apologize to my friend and tell her it was none of my business. I might say that I only said something out of concern, however, it was not my place to do so and I’m truly sorry.
I think for many of us who went to college in the 80’s and 90’s, student loans were a part of life. My husband and I each ended up with about 30k in loans. I don’t know what that translates to in today’s money. Was starting our marriage with 60k in debt easy? No. But, neither of us had any other means to go to college. I think a lot of people our age ar ignorant about student loan caps, subsidized vs. unsubsidized, etc… I would find it very difficult not to comment if I saw a friend going down the rabbit hole.
I’m so sorry, OP. People are VERY sensitive about finances and debt. I think as a friend you were saying what you felt you had to say out of friendship.
I know a single mom who is in her late 50s with no savings or retirement and living paycheck to paycheck at physically demanding job, running a food truck. She spent her entire divorce settlement sending her younger S to UChicago. She is the sole support for herself and her special needs older S who dropped out of college and CC. She did what she felt was right and will be living with the consequences for the foreseeable future.
It is very hard to watch people we care about make financial choices that we feel will haunt them and their loved ones for a very long time.
I think you tried to do a good thing. If I were you, I’d apologize for upsetting her (not for trying to help) and suggest she come to CC for ideas. We’re good at helping families here.
@Pheebers, I agree with your position completely, but I do think you owe your friend an apology.
I suspect she will come around in a day or so, and be OK. I have a friend who is currently going through something similar. She asked me to help her write the plea for additional money. At that point I really felt like the door was opened, and I let her know what I thought.
Do let us know if you hear back from the friend.
I definitely would not recommend she come to CC for ideas. I’ve seen way to many threads where people ask a similar question and many of the responses are rude, snarky and judgmental.
When I started on this site I found it friendly and helpful. Lately I have felt otherwise.
It’s not like you butt into a discussion all on your own. The friend brought up the subject, on social media no less.
What kind of friend would not warn a loved one that there are huge risks involved?
Fast forward 5 years from now and the mom is struggling and drowning in debt, she tells her tale of woe to the OP, how would the OP feel if she knew that she could have warned her but didn’t?
At least now, the woman has been told the risks and facts, and if she goes ahead, she’ll have no one else to blame.
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I definitely would not recommend she come to CC for ideas. I've seen way to many threads where people ask a similar question and many of the responses are rude, snarky and judgmental.
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Guilty as charged. And thankfully, we have changed a lot of minds around here. Most recently, the mom who was being pressured to cosign big loans…after some rather frank and “judgmental” posts, she had the courage to stand up to her DD.
Wimpy words rarely have an impact in cases like these…sometimes the words need to really penetrate and bounce around the brain a bit.
Maybe. But that “snark” as you call it (I call it candor), changed at least one mom’s mind and she is no longer going to enable her child’s crippling debt.
I think you should apologize for upsetting her if you want to salvage the relationship.
Sure, people are sensitive about finances but I also think a good friend doesn’t knowingly let their friends make horrible decisions without saying something.
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was gentle about it, and understanding, but she’s very upset with me now and not speaking to me.
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When you say that she’s not speaking to you, do you mean that she’s not responding to your PMs? She may be annoyed, for now, but also digesting what you’ve said. She may even repeat what you said to another person who (hopefully) will be honest and back up what you said.
Give her time…if she is a true friend, she won’t let your concern for her break up your long friendship.
