<p>ctmomof3 -</p>
<p>I would bet that the situation that you just described happens in many schools - why get so down on Notre Dame? It is what it is so why attack Notre Dame specifically for doing it? And BC and Vanderbilt do not FAR exceed Notre Dame - at least be honest about it.</p>
<p>HEYCOW, its an opinion and in my own, having visted all three and having learned a lot about all three and based on that and location,(important to my son) to US they do far exceed Notre Dame. Again just an opinion and you don’t have to agree. I agree with you that other schools do it but this was such an extreme case that it turned my stomach to see the greed at work.</p>
<p>heycow: as an outsider looking in, you’re extreme defense of ND is pretty annoying. I realize you were admitted, and I’m very happy for you! You should be proud of your accomplishment. But the fact is that many, many qualified applicants were not, due to UNFAIR practices by ND. This isn’t a matter of them not being well-rounded enough, it’s a matter of them never getting the chance to be reviewed holistically, a fact that is somewhat revolting considering ND’s acclaimed “individualized review” system.</p>
<p>I love Notre Dame, I think it’s a great school. But I cannot, will not, stand for discrimination in the admissions process. When you are automatically put at a disadvantage because you don’t have a certain skin color or privileged background, that isn’t right.</p>
<p>And stop saying other schools do it, because they don’t–not to the extend of ND. And if you wish to defend that argument, I want proof. What other highly selective institutions give applicants a virtually automatic 50% chance at admission?</p>
<p>Again, not ALL students admitted to ND had a “hook,” I realize that. Most certainly do deserve to get in! But it’s a shame that ND is missing out on so much talent due to their narrow policies.</p>
<p>vc08 -
You are not an expert on Notre Dame or any other school so what makes you think that you know all and that I should abide by what you say. You are an
18 year old student who got waitlisted by Notre Dame and you do seem to be pretty bitter about it. You do not know everything so stop telling us what we have to believe. My son was the one who was admitted to Notre Dame so I am a mom in my 40’s - I believe that I am a little bit more seasoned in my thinking than you are. Stop trying to intimidate people into thinking your way - it will not work for me. Call me annoying - I don’t care - but you are the one who applied to Notre Dame knowing all the “garbage?” that is associated with it so stop attacking posters who are defending the school. You knew what you were getting into so why did you apply?<br>
I don’t like making such “angry” posts but I’m not going to put up with your
so-called “knowledge” anymore - I will no longer personally address any more of your posts.
Good luck with whatever school you may attend and may you be happy there.</p>
<p>What proof VC08 do you have that admissions is doing EXACTLY what you are saying? Do you personally know someone in admissions that can verify all of your info? As I said in another post, this has been another brutal year for admissions and not just at ND. NO ONE should pin such high hopes on any one school considering admissions results at schools across the country. I am annoyed that you would suggest that privilege/skin color gives you one up! I happen to have faith in the system and firmly believe that classes are selected each year by admissions based on what is needed that year–perhaps the track team lost half of its members to graduation, those spots need to be filled, perhaps certain ethnic backgrounds have graduated and ND wants to try to maintain that diversity that they so desperately are seeking. Perhaps ND wants to attract a fair number of super-bright kids whether they are privileged or not. Perhaps they need some privileged kids to pay the full tuition price of nearly $45,000 so that others can attend and obtain financial aid. Perhaps, in order to maintain diversity, they have admitted protestants as well as jews, hindus, etc. And yes, perhaps legacies are admitted with less than stellar stats. I could go on and on. None of us will ever know what “mathematical formula” is used each year to comprise a class as I am sure that it changes each year. Plenty of schools are missing out on so much talent due to narrow policies. Most elite schools like ND turn down a plethora of talent for no apparent reason. Please do not be offended by my post, and, try to remain positive with whatever your future brings.</p>
<p>can we move the Bash ND thread out of The ND area?
Now personally I’m upset you guys didn’t get in, but these types of admissions things have always took place and are worse at most Ivies and New Ivies.</p>
<p>Come on. Everyone knows that vc08 is a little *****.</p>
<p>This is the internet, so let’s stop fueling her rude behavior with more responses.</p>
<p>She’s just doing it for the lulz.</p>
<p>ManUtd20Ole -</p>
<p>Agreed!</p>
<p>Here it goes…
Harvard states that 80-90% of their applicants are qualified for admission and could do the work at Harvard. Since ND is no slouch either, this is also probably true there. From what I’ve seen here, ND doesn’t look at scores nearly as much as everyone else claims. I believe the admissions office DOES look at everyone holistically. Unless we have each applicant’s entire admission file in front of us on this board, we can only assume.
My point is, everyone is admitted for a legitimate reason. I don’t think this nepotism and these $100 handshakes exist as everyone else claims. I know Tim and several others got rejected, and I feel terrible for them, but just because they post on a Notre Dame message board does not guarantee acceptance. I believe that Notre Dame advertises that showing interest does not play a factor, so just because someone is in touch with an admissions rep does not guarantee acceptance either.
Yes, legacies are given an advantage, but show me a place where they aren’t? Yes, developmental admits are given an advantage, but it really is for the good of the college as a whole (as long as there are only a few), as these people make it possible for ND to build and give out scholarships. People complained nonstop about ND’s lack of diversity on another thread, and on this thread, there’s nonstop complaining about the admittance of URMs. You can’t have it both ways.
Again, I’m sorry if I’ve offended anyone, but this is the way I see it. Also, I would like to tell those who were waitlisted or rejected how truly terrible I feel for them. Finally, even if you don’t agree with the admissions counselors’ decisions, don’t take it out on the University.
Love thee Notre Dame</p>
<p>“But the fact is that many, many qualified applicants were not, due to UNFAIR practices by ND.”</p>
<p>ALL top schools are forced to reject many, many qualified applicants. As long as colleges consider factors OTHER THAN test scores and grades, there will be differences of opinion regarding whether particular admissions decisions are “fair.” If you spend some time researching the college admissions process, you will learn that Notre Dame’s admissions policies are not unique. Harvard gives legacies a much bigger boost than does Notre Dame. Brown gives extra consideration to children of celebrities. Duke was a pioneer in “development” admits. Duke also gives residents of North Carolina a huge admissions advantage. Vanderbilt aggressively targets Jewish students. UCLA gives bonus points to applicants who have overcome “life challenges.”<br>
None of these schools, including Notre Dame, can possibly offer admission to every highly qualified applicant, no matter how “well-rounded” they are. That doesn’t mean that Notre Dame is lying about “holistic” reviews, it simply means that there aren’t enough spaces in the class to admit everyone who would make a great contribution to the school. “Crapshoot” is the most accurate way to describe elite (and not so elite) college admissions.<br>
It is ironic that someone who earlier complained that Notre Dame is insufficiently “diverse” also complains about admissions decisions that take into account factors other than grades and test scores. You can’t have it both ways.</p>
<p>notre dame AL that is the best post I’ve seen. Ditto everything in post #65. ^#70 looks pretty good too.</p>
<p>Don’t forget though that financial need has nothing to do with admissions. The financial aid office and admissions office are separate. Admissions never sees whether or not an applicant can pay full price.</p>
<p>Woah Woah Woah</p>
<p>Since when did this become a ND bashing thread.</p>
<p>I have not once blamed ND for not letting me in. I still love Notre Dame. Don’t group me with other rejected student’s comments please.</p>
<p>Keddy-admissions can read between the lines. It is not unique to ND. It is my personal opinion that when a college sees the level of education of your parents, the occupation of your parents, the school you attend, and level of activities you participate in–they can assume your financial need. As I said, this is my personal opinion and it is NOT unique to ND. Parental info is not necessary on a college app-after all, who is attending college, parents or student?</p>
<p>PS-not to stray off-topic.</p>
<p>Seriously guys please just take it all somewhere else.
Tim’s the one who after getting rejected didn’t turn his back, but looked to transfer in!
Go bash in the “Anyone else mad!!!” thread…
This is for supporting Tim and the others who didn’t get in now, but still Love ND. And even want to transfer for some of them!</p>
<p>This is a place to build up, not to tear down.</p>
<p>Keddy, only schools that call themselves need-blind don’t consider the student’s financial situation. Notre Dame is NOT need-blind. Here’s a list of the schools that are, from wikipedia:</p>
<p><a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind[/url]”>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Need-blind</a></p>
<p>Amherst College
Beloit College
Boston College
Bowdoin College
Brandeis University
Brown University
California Institute of Technology
Claremont McKenna College
Columbia University
Cornell University
Cooper Union
Dartmouth College
Davidson College
Duke University
Emory University [2]
Georgetown University
Grinnell College
Harvard University
Haverford College
Lawrence University (96% of need met)[3]
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Middlebury College
Northwestern University
Pomona College
Princeton University
Rice University [4]
Stanford University
Swarthmore College
University of Chicago
University of Pennsylvania
University of Richmond
University of Virginia [5]
Vassar College [6]
Vanderbilt University
Wake Forest University
Wellesley College
Wesleyan University
Williams College
Yale University </p>
<p>Notre Dame is NOT on that list and therefore takes into consideration how much each student needs for financial aid while making decisions. (This list was posted on another thread and I am assuming it’s accurate)</p>
<p>OK after this post I’m abandoning this site.. but vc08.. you’ve got me a little ****ed off.
1.) First off, in another forum you claimed gaining admittance into ND without legacy or a hook is on par with ivy leagues in terms of difficulty… You said you needed nearly perfect scores. I want to reiterate that this just isn’t true. My brother currently attends and I never received any mail from ND saying that i was a legacy or part of their family. ( and i did for gtown) I asked my local rep and the admissions dean when i visited and they both said having a brother does not hurt you obviously.. but it is by no means a legacy qualification. I received a 1390/2120- that is BELOW notre dame’s average- and I still got in for whatever reason. I would like to argue that the admissions process IS very holistic because otherwise they would have every reason to reject me. (not just for scores.. but for everything else) anyway enough about me.. on to my next point.</p>
<p>2.) I have a friend who received a 1560/2400 a 490 on critical reading.. from Maryland.. who got into UVA and UNC chapel hill.. debatably the two hardest public out of state schools to get into. If he had posted on college confidential forums i’m sure people would be ****ed and wonder how he got in. What you would fail to see was that his essay was a jaw-dropping story about a near-death experience, He started his own italian ice company that makes 40+k a summer, and is in rotc. I got rejected from UVA and i had better scores than he did… but can you really say that he didn’t deserve to get in? His gpa is nearly perfect and he has already proven himself a successful young entrepreneur. I know you aren’t overtly trying to place judgement on anyone who was admitted to ND… but you’re severely implicating it. I’m sorry you got wait listed,and I know you have great options like UVA. Good for you. But, stop saying that the admission process is unfair. Like others have said.. you knew what you were getting yourself into before you even applied. You knew ND loves their legacy applicants.. but to be honest.. there isn’t usually a huge difference in legacy in non legacy’s. Class of 2010 the legacy avg sat was only 20 points lower than the rest. </p>
<p>Sorry for the long post… but i just want to reiterate that you shouldn’t assume the admissions process is unfair at ND just because you and a few others who had higher test scores didn’t get in. I’m sure a lot of UVA rejectees saw your 31 and thought to themselves how you got in over them as well.</p>
<p>ahh sorry for going off-topic. probably the wrong thread to post in.</p>
<p>I posted this in a different thread, but seemed more appropriate here:</p>
<p>I am not legacy, not URM and not an athlete. My paents have not donated a dollar to ND, but I got accepted at ND. My SAT and SAT II are not at the top level of those I’ve seen admitted to ND. SAT and SAT II are quasi-equalizers. GPA alone is not a good measure because high schools have inflation/deflation grade situations. Ranking is apples to oranges because high school competition varies. The best comment I read in a post is that colleges are not admitting students based on a simple mathematical formula or number/type of EC, but they are “forming a class”. They could probably form 2 good classes with the applications they are getting, but they can only admit so many based on their capacity. Schools don’t know us “personally”, so, we should not take it personally. What hurts is when we fall in love with one school, and they don’t fall in love with us. I got turned down from my #1 dream school, but prepared myself emotionally for “four dream schools” because of pure psychological self-preservation. My dad always told me, part of growing up is learning to set realistic expectations and learning to cope with unpredictable results. College admissions seem to be a good dose of reality for us young people to prepare us for the entropy of the real world.</p>
<p>great attitude DarkHorse.</p>
<p>congrats on your acceptance</p>
<p>“Part of growing up is learning to set realistic expectations and learning to cope with unpredictable results.”
great quote/advise</p>