<p>Wait, are you suggesting that it is possible to have a situation where discrimination never exists, and/or that discrimination is never justified? Please tell me that I’ve misunderstood you.</p>
<p>I should ask you to answer my question before I answer yours since I asked you first, but given how you dodged my question by rewording it, I guess the only way I can get an answer out of you is if I answer your question.</p>
<p>As long as were human, there will never be a situation where there is no discrimination. So, yes, in this case, you have misunderstood me. However, I dont believe that discrimination is ever justified. Some people denounce negative discrimination while condoning positive discrimination. I oppose both. So, no, in this case, you understood me perfectly.</p>
<p>Now, if you please, Id like an answer to my question: youre actually defending a discriminatory policy?</p>
<p>Yes, because I think it is justified in this case. Discrimination is a means of compensating for imbalances. The imbalance in this case is an excess of a certain race (Asians), and to compensate stricter standards are set.</p>
<p>Here are some other examples of discrimination that I find justified:
- You’re seeking an actor to play the part of an Indian who owns a restaurant in India called “Curryville” and it wouldn’t make as much sense if the actor wasn’t Indian (since chances are the typical non-Indian wouldn’t look as Indian as the typical Indian), so in seeking the right actor you prefer Indians and set stricter standards on non-Indians.
- You’re about to have a cockroach race with a few friends. Let’s assume a faster cockroach is more likely to win. If you win, you get $100. If you lose, your friends tie you up and rape you while pouring cockroaches down your throat. Assuming you would rather have the winning prize than the losing prize, then it would make sense to look for a cockroach that is more likely to win – i.e. a faster cockroach. Hence, discrimination.
- Many other examples. E.g. disabilities, gender-based, etc. I’m sure you can think of other examples yourself.</p>
<p>I should clarify: discrimination <em>can be</em> (but is not necessarily) a means of compensating for imbalances, as I believe it is in the case with Asians in college admissions.</p>
<p>Discrimination can also, of course, be used as a means of defense. Check my cockroach race example. Another example of discrimination as defense is seen in terrorism. You know that some physical characteristics of Al-Quaeda members tend to be more prevalent than others, so as a security guard you tend to look for these characteristics more.</p>
<p>Discrimination is also a means of simplification. You know that those who appear to be women are more likely to be women than men, so you take this into account when you’re assessing whether someone is a woman. If we had to make objective tests for every little thought, life would be too complicated. I may be using a looser version of discrimination here than what we are tending toward in this discussion, but we haven’t explicitly agreed upon a rigid definition yet.</p>
<p>Wow this thread is ridiculous.</p>
<p>You say there is an excess of Asians. That is, there are “too many.” What, then, is the right number? And, if you can tell me what the “right number” is, I ask you, is that not a quota?</p>
<p>The problem the university faces is that it needs a mix of 1)high-achieving students, 2)rich students, and 3) underrepresented students so it can 1) keep up its reputation, 2) not go the way of Chrysler, and 3) not get skewered by the media/students/faculty/etc. about its “discrimination.”
This discussion is about #1 and #3.</p>
<p>I have seen to many Indians and Asians with the same status. Many of them has researched and has won some science fair award. A lot of Asians do debate because it looks good on their applications. And you can guess what their majors are, OH Engineering right or science right? But what happens to the teachers who teach Humanaties teachers? English teachers? History teachers? No one will take their courses. This is why colleges are seriously rejecting Asians, even if they have good stats, its because THERE ARE JUST TOO MANY APPLICATIONS FROM ASIANS WITH SIMILAR STATS. I have read so many status that are just like yours and without even asking for their ethnicity, I can guess they are Asian and most of the time it is correct. Asians are always Math this award, math that award, math this club, math that club or science this and science that. I have rarely seen an Asian that is Humanities this, Humanities that
Come on lets find a new hobby, maybe environmental volunteering? become an english major? humanities major? maybe even become art major?</p>
<p>^^I’m asian and I want to major in something related to the humanities. Either a PPE or Polisci/English!</p>
<p>asians are extremely over represented in private schools. at almost every school. and it’s extremely noticable.</p>
<p>asians do seem to separate themselves socially from everybody else. don’t get me wrong all races self segregate, but asians do it on a more extreme level to the point where they come off as exclusive and unfriendly. what i always ended up seeing during campus weekends and visits were all different kinds of people with different backgrounds coming together and it was just awesome… and then the group of asians off to the side. it was a total mood killer.</p>
<p>occasionally i would find one or two asians who were really cool down to earth people, but the rest of the time the asians on campus were either not present at social gatherings or just avoided everyone.</p>
<p>so yeah i guess i agree with the quotes in the starting post from admins who said asians don’t contribute to the social atmosphere of college. they really don’t.</p>
<p>Don’t self-loathe. Say screw the system and just apply. Your essay and resume should tell the real you.</p>
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<p>You mean, at your campus, at the particular social events you’ve been to, at particular times in the day, from your point of view.</p>
<p>Is it just me or are there a lot of topics about Asians on CC? It’s getting a little tedious. Let’s switch it up a bit. How about … Native Americans. Does anyone have a tepee here?</p>
<p>Some guy at my school is 1/16th Native American. He wrote it on his application and got into Columbia with subpar stats…</p>
<p>Koreans are the cliquey asians you think of.</p>
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Agreed 100%. I’m sick of Asians talking about being Asian. -_-</p>
<p>Cdz has a huge point. I go to a school that is roughly 90% Asian, and what I’ve noticed is that almost everyone has the exact same application. They all have the same awards, the same grades, the same SAT scores, the same ECs, the same hobbies, the same specialties, the same skill-sets, and they even write the same. Now obviously, this isn’t true for most Asians I know, but if you narrow the spectrum to very high-performing Asians (i.e: performing at a level competitive for top schools), you really do end up seeing that…they’re mostly all the same. With a few unique ones here and there, most of these high-performing kids are quite similar. I can’t honestly differentiate many of them. A lot of times to me, I have a name, I have a face, and that’s pretty much all I’ve got in my head to differentiate them. Not to mention they always tend to cluster around the EXACT same majors. (Predominantly CS and EE if they’re male and Biology if they’re female.)</p>
<p>When you get a horde of people applying to the same major, with almost identical applications, and even with writing that sounds exactly the same (I can’t differentiate them based on their writing or words), of course the admission rate will be lower for that group than another group.</p>
<p>Now obviously, this group of identical doesn’t describe all Asians, or probably even most Asians, but they’re large enough to statistically skew Asian admissions downward; hence the discrepancies we see.</p>
<p>Asian admissions are also harmed because most of the people who don’t fit the quiet asian archetype just don’t do very well because of the mindset of many of the authority figures in these areas. In many classes, the only way to get an A is to put your head down, regularly kowtow, mindlessly chug numbers, and do what Asians who apply to top colleges seemingly do best. I know tons of Asian people who are individualistic, intellectually engaging, and clearly compelling people. None of them have good grades, because you just don’t get that if you act like the above. The education system in many of these areas has so adjusted to Asian counter-colonization that they start rewarding their students for embracing Oriental social values. Eventually, all of the successful students just become the same, partially because anyone who isn’t the same just gets weeded out.</p>
<p>Conversely, if you’re Asian and you show in your application that you’re unique and interesting, it stands out a lot more than if you’re white and interesting…</p>
<p>Wow, I had no idea this thread had become so huge! I made this thread as a high school senior, and now, as a junior in college, I’m still thinking about the same issues, this time in a seminar on race. I just stumbled on this thread again as I’m writing something for that class about the use of testing in admissions and hiring processes. (See: the New England firefighters case.)</p>
<p>It’s interesting that standardized tests are used with such faith in such situations (the New Haven fire department in question was using a test to determine who got promotions.) Yet in college admissions, tests are only “part of the package,” with personal qualities playing a big role in the decision. Colleges are quick to tell us that “objective” tests tell us only a limited amount of information about the applicant, and no that admissions process can depend solely on testing. It’s funny how colleges are happy to deemphasize tests for that reason, but many places of employment still swear by tests. It’s naive to say race plays no role in this.</p>
<p>It’s no small coincidence that Asian-American students continue to be ranked lower in the subjective categories; hence, the pumping up of “personal qualities” criteria. And similarly, it’s no small coincidence that African-Americans tend to score lower on tests like those administered by the New Haven fire department; hence, the insistence on testing in fire departments.</p>
<p>It just goes to show that testing will always be manipulated to serve someone’s agenda, and these processes are ALWAYS subjective.</p>
<p>I didn’t read through any of the posts, but the first three.</p>
<p>I completely agree with what they say. Sure, there are people who are different, but a majority of asians are, unfortunately, as they describe. </p>
<p>I don’t however, agree that asian qualities are “worse”</p>
<p>I am asian btw, and I am very proud of it.</p>
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<p>I got pretty good grades… so I’m not individualistic, intellectually engaging, and compelling. </p>
<p>Well, nice to see myself summed up so easily.</p>