IB Diploma Program

Applying to College
1

<p>Hi, I am a current sophomore and I have come to a point in my high school carrer where I have to deciede whether I want to go into the IB diploma program, take some IB program courses, or none at all. I would like to take the diploma, but I have been hearing different things about it.</p>

<p>Here is what my sceduale would look like (at my typical 6th periods-a-day, no block sceduale):</p>

<p>Summer of 2010:
Take Spanish 3 (no IB for this at my high school) and Statistics (no IB for this at my school either) at a nearby community college.</p>

<p>2010-2011 (my 11th grade junior year):
IB Spanish 4 SL
IB History of the Americas HL (Year 1)
IB Chemistry HL (Year 1)
IB Math Studies SL (no IB Math SL offered at our school; one year only)
IB English 3 HL
Girls' Tennis (1st semester)
US Government (2nd Semester, no IB course offered)</p>

<p>Summer of 2011:
Take Calculas Ab/BC (not sure which one yet) and Physics at the nearby community college.</p>

<p>2011-2012 (my 12th grade senior year):
IB History of the Americas HL (Year 2)
IB Visual Arts SL
IB Chemistry HL (Year 2)
IB Economics SL
IB English 4 HL
Girls' Tennis (1st Semester)
Elective (i don't know what yet; 2nd semester)</p>

<p>So that's what my scedaule will PROBABLY look like. i'm new to this whole thing, and I'm ahead by one year in math (i'm currently taking Pre-Cal IB as a sophomore).</p>

<p>I don't really care about the workload. I know that I can handle it. I'm an honors student and have a current 3.8-3.9 GPA. I'm dedicated. My school is getting rid of AP classes and replacing them with IB classes. I'm currently in all Honors Classes, and taking Biology AP too (in addition to taking Bio Honors, I have to go in for lunch at least twice a week to prepare for the Bio AP test).</p>

<p>I'm also not focused on having a "life" in high school. My goal is to work hard all the way up to the end of college, then have a good and successful life afterwards.</p>

<p>I have an undecieded major and college choice. This is why I would like to take the IB diploma, so i am ready for whatever major i choose and I am ready for it, because i took the highest classes in high school for my interested major. I would like to atttend the best college, probably an Ivy League, and get a scolarship for academics and sports. I am leaning towards a double major and one minor, with Engineering, Applied Mathematics, and Computor Science (not in that order, because it switches on what i want to double major in.) Also, important: I often change my idea of my major/college/career often.</p>

<p>So... I have so many questions. Please number them if you answer them. Thank you so much.</p>

<p>1) People say the colleges look at your GPA FIRST, even if you graduate with a IB diploma. Is this true, and if you have a low GPA, but have am IB diploma, you won't get into as many colleges if you had a high GPA, but not have the IB diploma? (in other words, which is more important to get into good colleges, the IB diploma or a good GPA )?</p>

<p>2) Does the courses for the IB diploma prepare you for collage? Will you be ahead or behind in your courses in college?</p>

<p>3) Which is better to take, AP or IB classes, in terms of getting into colleges and looking good on your transcript? Would it be good to take the IB class (highest offered at my school), then take the AP test too?</p>

<p>4) What is the difference between AP and IB, in terms of the materials taught and the tests?</p>

<p>5) Is IB Math Studies SL similar to Calculus? If so, which is it closer to, Cal AB or Cal BC? Would it be best to take IB Math Studies SL first, or Calculus first?</p>

<p>6) Is IB Math Studies SL concidered Calculus to colleges? which colleges see it that way? Will IB MAth Studies SL go down on my transcript, if i take the course, as Calculus? If so, will it be Calculus AB or BC?</p>

<p>6) I am currently interested in attending any UC or CSU (because i live in california) college, as well as out of state colleges, such as Harvard and MIT (MIT is what I'm aiming for, with my current idea(s) of a major(s) stated before). Which of these high ranking academic colleges accept IB diploma/IB classes over AP? Which do not? And if possible, why or why not?</p>

<p>7) In addition to taking the diploma, I want to play all four years on my school's tennis team, taking Calculus (because it looks good on transcript), Physics, and Statistics. Calculus, Physics, and Statistics are not offered as IB courses at my school. Physics and Calculus (both AB and BC) are offered as AP. AP Statistics is iffy, as in our school is thinking off having an AP Stats class if there's enough students to sign up for it. Would these classes improve my transcript if i get a good grade in them? (Remember that I will more than likely be taking these at the community college).</p>

<p>8) Graduates from the IB diploma who are now in college: What college are you attending? Has the diploma helped you or hurt you? What are you majoring in?</p>

<p>9) Does the IB Diploma help more to people who want to major in Math, history, science, english, foriegn language, or etc?</p>

<p>Thanks so much this is really quick and has a lot of spelling errors and stuff cuz i'm in a hurry, but anything else you can give me on why or why not i should take the diploma would help</p>

<p>-Elyza</p>

2

<p>I recommend:</p>

<p>(1) Do the IB. It’s a rigorous and respected curriculum. And at the end of the IB take the necessary exams so you in fact receive the IB diploma. Selective colleges respect the IB, and understand it as a strong program.</p>

<p>(2) Reconsider “trying” to balance for what the IB is missing. I don’t think that it’s necessary or helpful, UNLESS you are passionate about some particular course offered at your school or elsewhere. In that case pursue your passion – especially if you can take it to a higher depth than 1 or 2 semesters, and do more than just coursework.</p>

<p>(3) Reconsider “not having a life”. Selective colleges prefer holistic, AND academically strong students. Use your summers for purposes other than taking more classes. There’s much available – volunteering, working, pursuing some special passion, etc.</p>

3

<p>

I’m a current IB diploma student (senior), and I just want to point out that there is a huge difference between math studies SL and math SL. Math studies SL is a lot easier, and it only covers very introductory differential calculus. If you want to major in math, you might want to consider math HL if your school offers that. There is again a big divide in difficulty between math HL and math SL, but probably not as significant as that between math studies SL and math SL.</p>

4

<p>I graduated from the IB program last year and am at Dartmouth this year. I definitely think you should take the IB courses if they are the highest offered from at your school. I haven’t yet taken any science courses here, but my IB Lit teachers definitely prepared me for the writing component of college work(as much as a public school can). Not to say the transition was seamless, but IB is definitely a good starting point. I took Maths SL and from what I hear, I think SL is closer to AB whereas BC is closer to Math HL. Math studies doesn’t delve into calculus and is more applied mathematics. The only area that I think I struggled in was having the actual background in American government that I would’ve had with AP US Gov’t. I rectified that with an American Politics and a Public Policy course, so it wasn’t too bad. Overall I think IB is useful for people in the humanities like me (probably a Gov major) and can be useful for the math/science people only if they take the Higher Level courses in those subjects. </p>

<p>On the subject of placement and credit, IB can get you credit at Dartmouth for HL courses with scores of 6 or 7(not including Math Studies because it isn’t calculus). We have self-placement, so you could put yourself in a higher class if you think you’re up for it.</p>

<p>On admissions, AP and IB only matter in the context of your school. If IB is the highest course-load at your school, then IB is what you need to take and vice-versa. If you’re taking IB, remember that the only thing that admissions people will see is your school’s transcript. Since you don’t get your results for the IB Diploma until sometime in June, whether you actually get the diploma doesn’t really matter. Things such as the Extended Essay don’t matter(unless your school uses them for grades) to admissions committees. Just make sure to keep your grades up in the actual class since they won’t see most of your IB test scores(unless it is a one-year course you take junior year).</p>

5

<p>Just to address a few things:</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>You can’t get scholarships to Ivy Leagues, only need-based financial aid. </p>

<ol>
<li><p>Yes, your unweighted GPA is the single most important aspect of your application. An A- here or there in rigorous courses won’t kill you, but the top schools have an overabundance of qualified applicants. What I’ve found from my school is that you need straight A’s for the Ivies and top ten schools (MIT, Stanford), but a B or two is okay for schools just below (Northwestern, Georgetown) if you’ve taken IB.</p></li>
<li><p>Yes, but not necessarily more than a well-structured AP program. The biggest benefit I’ve found is the EE, which teaches you how to write a research paper over time, a skill I wouldn’t have otherwise learned.</p></li>
<li><p>If your school offers both, take the option that is best for you. Colleges don’t really distinguish between the rigor of the two. Neither is better, but one may be better for you.</p></li>
<li><p>That depends on the course.</p></li>
<li><p>No. It is not Calc. It is applied math.</p></li>
<li><p>Over AP? No. MIT, in particular, is fond of kids with very focused, developed interests. AP will likely provide you better opportunities to pursue higher-level science and math, but you’ll have a less well-rounded education. That trade-off doesn’t make one better, just different. Again, choose the path that allows you to best pursue your interests. IB is heavily writing-orientated; as a science person, that may or may not be for you.</p></li>
<li><p>It seems like the classes you want to take aren’t offered. Taking extra upper-level courses in addition to a rigorous IB schedule is a bad idea. You should have a rigorous curriculum–not an impossible one!–tailored to your interests. And look around these boards–grades are not the only thing upper-level colleges are looking at. You should have accomplishments outside of school (ECs) that match you interests and accentuate your personality. You need time to do that.</p></li>
<li><p>Haven’t graduated. But previous grads from my school’s diploma program have been accepted to Harvard, Princeton, Yale, UPenn, Stanford, MIT, Williams, Northwestern–the list goes on.</p></li>
<li><p>It’s a well-rounded education, but it tends to benefit humanities-oriented students just because of the sheer volume of writing it requires.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>9.</p>

6

<p>That’s a lot of questions. So I’ll answer the ones that I can. </p>

<p>4) There can be a HUGE difference between the material in AP and IB classes depending on the subject. Spanish is one that is very different becuase IB focuses on if you can get your point across even if every verb tense is not correct, whereas AP is looking for a complete mastery of grammar/vocab/etc. I got a 7 on the Spanish SL and there is no way I would EVER get a 5 on the AP test. </p>

<p>5) IB Math Studies is not Calculus by any stretch of the imagination. Our schools Math Studies is like Algebra 2 with a little bit of PreCalc. Even SL Math (not Studies) does very little calculus compared to a calculus class. Math HL does a lot of AP Calc stuff. Colleges know Math Studies vs. SL Math vs. HL Math and they will most likely NOT consider Math Studies to be Calculus. </p>

<p>And also, according to your proposed schedules, it looks like you won’t be taking math your senior year. I would NOT do that if you want to get into a top college as most kids will have taken at least four math classes! Take AP Stats, at least, or if you think you can handle it, AP Calc.</p>

7

<p>I don’t feel like I can answer some of the questions, but for those I can:</p>

<p>(4) It varies by subject area. Often, they can diverge.</p>

<p>(3) I would say that, if you want to go to university outside the United States, IB would be better; however, if you plan on staying in the United States, AP would be better. Per (6), you seem to be looking at domestic colleges, so I would do AP.</p>

<p>(1) Again, I think it depends on if you want to go to college inside or outside the United States.</p>

<p>(5)/(6) IB math studies SL is not calculus; it’s at about an Algebra 2-precalculus level. Colleges will know that.</p>

<p>(9) I think it’s more for the humanities-type, as others have mentioned.</p>

8

<p>To clarify, IB Math Studies would be pre-calc, IB Math SL would be Calc AB, and IB Math HL would be equivalent to Calc BC (although the latter does much more than just Calc.)</p>

9

<p>

</p>

<p>WHAT?! NO. Just, no. I got accepted to Yale early action and I definitely have a couple B+s scattered here and there. And yes, I am in the IB program and have taken a lot of AP classes. Ultimately, the rigor of your classes is much more important than whether or not you have a perfect template of As.</p>

10

<p>^This varies by school. I’m just sharing what the pattern in the IB program at my school is. Obviously, it varies by school–some have better relationships with upper level schools than others, and so colleges are forgiving of a few B’s because they know the value of the overall education. But that’s not the case at my school.</p>

11

<p>HL Chemistry? You’re going to die.</p>

12

<p>Math SL is different from Math studies SL. Math studies is like applied math, on the other hand Math Sl is basically an advanced Pre calc class, with a little calculus. At my school Math SL is taken before calculus , and Math studies SL is taken by kids who don’t want to pursue a math or science field, or are not good at math.</p>

<p>In regards to IB in general, it really is an amazing program and although I am not a diploma candidate I have taken quite a few IB classes and basically I regret not doing the full program.</p>

13

<p>First of all, thank you to all who have posted their replies. Your responses have really helped me gain insight. I have one more question, if you don’t mind me adding.</p>

<p>10) Would it be wise to take AP tests as well as the IB diploma courses? (For example, if i take IB Chemistry HL, can I take both the IB test and the AP test for chemistry?) Which IB classes stated on my sceduale would properly prepare me for the AP test? (Using the Chemistry example stated earlier: If I took IB Chemistry HL and decided to take the AP Chem Test, would IB CHemistry HL prepare me for it, or would I need to supplement it with other things, such as study guides or tutoring?) Also, for the two year courses, would it be better to take the AP test AFTER the end of the 2nd year or AFTER the 1st year only?</p>

<p>Thanks again,
E.</p>

14

<p>^Absolutely not. It’s the best way to ensure college credit. However, for AP sciences, you may have to submit lab reports (not sure on this) and IB has a particular format. For HL courses, I’ve found that you can take the AP test after the first year.</p>

15

<p>^ That’s true. The HL Chem, Bio, and Physics people at my school all took the AP test after their first year (May of 11th grade).</p>

16

<p>Again, I must thank you all for helping me out. I’m very new with this, so stick with me, if you don’t mind.</p>

<p>Two more questions:</p>

<p>For the IB diploma grads/those in the process of taking the IB diploma:</p>

<p>11) How did/do you manage to get through the whole thing? (It’s a pretty vague question, I know). What made you stick with it to the end? What helped/helps you stay on task during those long nights when finishing your homework/studying for tests? What should I be prepared for, mentally, if or when I make the decision to go IB diploma?</p>

<p>For anyone (open question):</p>

<p>12) Anything else that it would be great for me to know? advice, caution, comments…? Anything?</p>

<p>Thank you very much, once again. i’ve gotten a lot of answers and I hope to make the best decision with them. :)</p>

<p>-E.</p>

17

<p>I’m only a junior, but I’ve been in MYP since sixth grade, so I know the drill. Firstly, you can’t enter this program already defeated. Expect that you’ll have to put in more effort than you’re used to, but make sure your schedule is realistic. Try and get your work done within a certain timeframe everyday. Force yourself to do this. Do not allow yourself to succumb to the series of all-nighters your friends will pull. Contrary to popular belief, all-nighters are rarely, if ever, necessary. </p>

<p>Have an agenda and a monthly calendar to put big assigments on. Make due dates for big assignments a few days before it’s actually due, and then forget the due date. Get it done by that date by whatever means necessary.</p>

<p>Get as much homework done during the school day as possible. After school time should be reserved as much as possible for projects/labs/papers and studying. You will do more studying than you are used to. Even if a teacher doesn’t assign a lot of homework, you need to study! Go in for tutoring if you don’t understand a concept. Do not let yourself fall behind!</p>

<p>Basically, time management is the key. And, to a lesser extent, so it doing what you love. Pick classes that fit your interests and strengths (contrary to CC-philosophy, I think the latter is more important, though they often overlap). You’ll thank me for this. Pick an EE topic that relates to something you’re deeply interested in. Whatever it is that you research on your own time or spend a lot of time musing about. Get excited about it. </p>

<p>Work hard first semester next year. Really hard. Immerse yourself in your courses. There’s a lot of trial and error involved when decoding a new curriculum, but don’t let yourself gloss over it. That way, come second semester, you won’t be scrambling to raise your GPA while SATs, SAT IIs, summer program applications, and ECs start to rear their head.</p>

18

<p>Thanks once again! I’m really thankful for all the advice I get here. My counceler reviewed my sceduale for the next two years (along with the summers) and suggested I drop one of the three non-IB classes: Statistics, Calculas, or Physics.</p>

<p>She says it may be too hard for me. I seem to agree. I want to drop Statistics, but with an undecieded major, I don’t know what to do. Can you help me out here and help me deciede which one to drop, or which one is not that important to colleges compared to the others and why/why not? Thanks again!!!</p>

<p>-E.</p>

19

<p>My daughter (now at UChicago) did the diplomma, and my son, h.s. senior is doing it as well, and they both feel that it prepares them well for success IN college. Both also had very much of high school life - son is two sport athlete and captain of teams, in a rock band, etc. He is taking 4 HLs, and he is taking AP Calc in addition. He has no lunch time, and also meets for 2 hour afterschool sessions for TOK every other week. The point is, you actually have to like/love the stuff you are doing, or this kind of schedule will burn you to a crisp. Doing it because you think some admissions officer will like you more is not going to get you through it.
Don’t forget that IB requires 150 hours - at least - of CAS, and find somethings that matters to you so that is meaningful. As a mom, I am very happy with the level of thinking, discussing, writing, and time management my kids have - and I don’t see much of this in the dedicated AP kids I know. </p>

<p>As you plan your schedule, I agree with your counselor: don’t overdo the summers with other courses. Use summers to knock out much of your EE research and writing, do some of your CAS reflections, write your college essays, and maybe get a job so you have some real world perspective, responsibility, and cash!</p>