<p>I’d just compare the two programs and see which is stronger in the areas she is interested in. Consider, will she want to do what seem to be more comprehensive requirements for the IB? Talk to families at your school with older kids in both tracks. And in the end if there doesn’t seem to be a compelling reason to choose either one, I would just go where most of her friends are going. She may be unhappy on either side if her friends choose differently. That could be far more important to her in the end than details of curriculum.</p>
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xiggi, I have heard that, too. Maybe it is because this particular school has such a good teacher, the same person for Math HL and Physics HL. I have heard there can be lots of variation between IB schools. His school is in a smaller city, and really, the entire area is not known for its academics. As an aside, S1 did well on SAT Math and SAT Math 2 and Physics subject tests, with no prep. Although he said the SAT Math was not very advanced, more stuff he had learned in middle school, so there might not be any correlation.
ucbalumnus, I was thinking of classes like Economics, English, History, Biology. I had read the report from a few years back by the Fordham Institute, where they compared some AP courses to SL courses. They ranked English, History, and Biology almost the same. </p>
<p>Our son chose what he thought sounded best to him from what was available in our area. His choices were limited to AP or IB, but IB has worked out well for him. His friends at AP schools are also doing well.</p>
<p>I agree with mnm111’s mention about time management; I think it’s key to keeping up with IB.</p>
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<p>That appears to be a relatively small number of elite high schools. Relatively few high school students attend or have the option to attend them. Most high school students may only find available high schools whose most rigorous courses are AP or IB courses, or sometimes not even that.</p>
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<p>However, those AP courses are not necessarily accepted that well for subject credit in colleges. For example, UCLA College of Letters and Science has this list of AP credit: [AP</a> Credit - College of Letters and Science - UCLA Undergraduate Admissions](<a href=“http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/APCreditLS.htm]AP”>http://www.admissions.ucla.edu/prospect/APCreditLS.htm)</p>
<p>Only those with listed course numbers count for subject credit equivalent to a UCLA course. We can see the following:</p>
<p>English (4 or 5): one quarter of English composition (students must still take the second quarter)
Biology: no subject credit for specific UCLA courses
History: no subject credit for specific UCLA courses</p>
<p>My D is also a perfectionist who did the full IB diploma. For her, it worked very well because so much of the work is based on long-term projects. She always had a very strong preference for managing her time as she saw fit and it worked well for her that IB allowed her to set her priorities with more autonomy. In her program, most of the kids took AP tests for many of the classes. The difference was that they had to take the IB tests to stay in the program, but each could choose the package of AP tests that best fit their interests. This worked well, again, for my D, but she was always very self-directed and excellent at prioritizing and managing her time. I have a son who, to put it delicately, lacks those skills, and IB would not be for him.</p>
<p>For a student who is aiming at highly selective colleges, such as Stanford, a critical issue to discuss with the people who run the IB program is SAT Subject Tests. What Subject Tests do students in the IB program typically take? When? What tests do they do well on?</p>
<p>An IB program may or may not provide good preparation for the SAT Subject Tests. Remember that Subject Tests have to be taken in early senior year at the latest – meaning that they are based on work completed through 11th grade. 12th grade doesn’t count. This fact doesn’t necessarily mesh well with the IB curriculum. For example, your IB program may have a fabulous HL Biology course, but a portion of that course must be taught in 12th grade. Depending on how the content is divided between 11th and 12th grades, the course may or may not provide good preparation for the SAT Subject Test in Biology.</p>
<p>The Subject Test issue may be particularly important for students who are interested in science or engineering as possible college majors because students applying to these programs may not have as wide a choice of subject tests as those applying for other programs do.</p>
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My oldest daughter, who didn’t do IB, told me a week after college began that she wasn’t worried; her HS had taught her how to write and how to manage her time. She could already see that most of her classmates could do neither one.</p>
<p>My DS14, selected IB at a time when he was just beginning to be interested in math and physics. Had we known at the time how slow most of the IB math/science was, he probably would have chosen differently. As it was, he managed to take or self-study 8 AP subjects (all math and science except for APUSH) in addition to the IB, but that was mostly self-initiated. </p>
<p>It might not be so at other schools, but he felt that the IB teachers were less capable than the others. He thinks (rightly or wrongly) that they are self-satisfied that they’re teaching IB.</p>
<p>I think it’s telling that of the ~40 Extended Essays in his year, only my son’s was in a math or science area. There was also one that was in Economics.</p>
<p>So, long story short, IB was okay, but had we known that his interests would swing over to math and science to the extent that they did, he would have not chosen to go for an IB diploma. The scheduling crowded out too many courses he wanted to take, with teachers he found more inspiring than the ones who taught IB courses.</p>
<p>Marian made a good point on subject tests.
S1’s school teaches History HL with the part covering American History in year 2. If they had switched the American History part to year 1, he would have taken the subject test for American History. However, this fall he did take Math 2 (800) and Physics (780). He had only taken year 1 of Physics, but muddled through anyway. :)</p>
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<p>Contrary to popular belief around here, it is not necessary to take an AP, IB HL, or college course to do well in the corresponding SAT subject test. SAT subject tests cover regular high school level material, so a decent high school course in the subject should be sufficient preparation to do well on the SAT subject test.</p>
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<p>You are correct about the position of elite high schools, and especially the famous boarding schools. However, a number of schools that might not fit everyone’s definition of elite high schools have uncovered that a strong combination of honors courses, a sprinkling of the most common APs (Calculus, English, and some language) plus a really strong development of dual credit courses has boosted their admissions at the most selective schools. </p>
<p>For comparison sake, the performance of the small Catholic school (a type of school that might not automatically do extremely well in highly selective admissions) versus the much larger and much better financed public schools is telling. While the public school offers an incredibly large AP program AND a highly popular IB program, the results are dismal compared to the smaller private. While less than a handful of the IB students gained acceptance to the CC type of schools, almost every one in the top 10-15 percent of the private did. And, fwiw, this is not a matter of wealth as most of those students belong to a minority group and made it to the final rounds of Questbridge and/or the Gates Millennium. </p>
<p>Of course, it did not hurt that a renewed focus to prepare their students for the PSAT and SAT (and abandoning silly efforts such as the PLAN in 9th grade) paid huge dividends. </p>
<p>In the end, the stronger students at the public high school, enjoyed their IB boost in the class rankings and parlayed that into an auto-admissions at the Texas flagships. But the considerably weaker average scores on the SAT did undo most of the “prestige” of the IB. Simply stated, students who had high GPA and high expected scores on the IB but could not cross the 1900/2100 barrier on the SAT did NOT fare well. And, sadly, few of the punlic high school students were able to score high enough to be competitive at the top national private schools.</p>
<p>In the end, the IB programs delivers as it might have been intended. It works well in the public school world in Texas where class ranking is key to secure an auto-admit in Austin or College Station. It does not, however, elevate such schools well above their overall mediocrity (think 1500 SAT averages) to become competitive outside Texas.</p>
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<p>Yes and no in the case of Stanford as the Farm does not require (but recommends) SAT Subject Tests.</p>
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<p>Congrats! As everything related to this subject, the results vary considerably. It appears that your son has a strong aptitude for standardized tests, and that the combination with the IB will (or has worked) work very well for you and him.</p>
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<p>Just because a high school is Catholic (or public or something other than a well known boarding school) does not mean that it cannot be an elite high school in an academic sense. Indeed, around here, the various Catholic high schools seem to come in various levels of academic offerings, including at least one that would probably be considered elite or close to elite academically.</p>
<p>But such schools are generally uncommon, and often not accessible to many students. At least one parent has mentioned here that the local options in that family’s area are only mediocre public schools and similarly mediocre private schools.</p>
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I would add that it’s certainly possible to do well on an SAT Subject test even without formal high school instruction on the tested topic. A couple years ago, I worked with a bright, highly motivated freshman who hadn’t taken a bio class in high school yet. With some guidance in the selection of the appropriate study materials and a healthy dose of independent study, the student was able to score an “800” on the Biology Subject test. The kid ended up completing all of her standardized testing by the end of the sophomore year. Front-loading her standardized testing has freed up her junior year and will make the fall of her senior year a breeze.</p>
<p>My IB D did extremely well on SAT subject tests. What she learned in IB was primarily how to study. On her own, she ordered an SAT study guide and locked herself away for a week or two. Tests aced. I don’t credit the program for that at all, though. But, it certainly didn’t hurt. My math S on other hand was AP all the way and would have hated (and failed) all the writing in IB. It’s very individual which learning style works for which kid. </p>
<p>Neither is better. Although around here when people hear that someone is in IB they ooh and aah a bit. That’s silly. imho.</p>
<p>At the 8th grade interest meeting, our IB coordinator did point out that there were some very bright, perfectionist students who dropped out of IB… it was just too stressful for them trying to do all the work. But it probably depends a lot on the program and the student. Our hs allowed pre-IB, then switch to AP. That was helpful. </p>
<p>“We are divided as to whether IB is a good idea for a kid who has her eyes set on Stanford” - Try not to get caught up on that. Even if she has terrific SAT and perfect GPA and stellar EC, it’s still more likely that she’ll get rejected than accepted.</p>
<p>Many high school IB students switch to partial by junior year largely because they realize that it won’t have much impact on college admissions. My own kid finished and did really well on the exams but that’s just because I always encourage finishing what you start. The learning style worked for her, but I agree with those who say don’t do it for an admissions advantage.</p>
<p>Most jobs that these kids will later have require the “knowing when it’s good enough” skill. It does not hurt to develop that skill in high school. I can’t tell you how many capable but perfectionist engineers I’ve had to give poor reviews to because they could never seem to move onto the next task due to their obsessive tweaking. </p>
<p>I’m not a huge fan of IB, but IMO, avoiding it because a student can’t manage their time is 180 degrees in the wrong direction.</p>
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<p>Some IB programs are perfectly happy to have some students take only the partial program and get a few certificates rather than taking the full IB diploma program.</p>
<p>In other programs, it’s diploma or nothing.</p>
<p>When making decisions about IB, it’s helpful to know which sort of situation you’re dealing with.</p>
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<p>My example was not a random or hypothetical one. I added the details to make sure that one would not confuse this school with a well-funded private school. The tuition is well-below one half of the cost to educate a student at the competing public. The comment about the top students routinely qualifying for the Gates or QB award should also be a clear signal that is not a school that targets an upper-crust clientele --although it would not be unusual to have the scions of the city’s elite also attending. </p>
<p>Again, I happen to think that the school is indeed elite, but that is mostly because accomplishing so much with so little. And both in academic and athletic terms. And, my point was not about the mutually exclusiveness of being religious and elite, but about a school being very successful (and elite) despite or because ignoring the AP/IB sirens’ songs.</p>