If I hear, "I got merit aid from [need only school]!" one more time...

Parents Forum
301

<p>Here is my impression after reading most of this thread.</p>

<p>The problem lies primarily in intent of statement, not in wording.</p>

<p>In the media, stating that somebody got a “scholarship” to a need-based school is fine if the article is focusing on the struggles of being low-income, mentioning that that’s what makes it possible for them to attend that school, etc. and the family is okay with revealing their financial situation in that way. The same statement, in a piece meant to focus on the kid’s intelligence only and using this “scholarship” as further proof of the kid’s brilliance, is misleading and wrong.</p>

<p>When face-to-face with a relative/friend, stating that somebody got a “scholarship” to a need-based school makes sense if the person is revealing their gratitude towards being able to attend and means to reveal that they had financial need. The same statement, when meant to brag that “my kid is so smart, he/she is better than your kid”, is misleading and wrong.</p>

<p>Wording is mostly not the problem. “Scholarship” and “financial aid” can both mean either need-based aid, merit aid, or a combination thereof. Perhaps “scholarship” leans a bit more towards merit and “financial aid” leans a bit more towards need-based, but these are minute differences, and not worth parsing in a normal conversation.</p>

<p>If they are explicitly referred to as “merit scholarships” or “merit aid”, though, that’s misleading regardless of the context when talking about a need-only school. Sure, getting into Harvard implies that your kid has some merit intellectually, but getting a “merit scholarship” there (defined as a scholarship based off achievement in high school, not family finances) is impossible, and getting a scholarship there requires no extra merit, except perhaps that of succeeding in a low-income family. “Merit scholarship” is simply the wrong terminology when referring to a need-only school, and while one should probably just smile and nod, it is a mistake, plain and simple.</p>

<p>EDIT: Another note. When the school being discussed is NOT need-only, it’s not really worth noting whether a scholarship is merit or need-based. Giving incorrect information is still unethical, but leaving the information vague (such as “he/she got a great scholarship to X”) seems fine, though it gets messier if the context is such as that statement would seem to be bragging.</p>

302

<p>

</p>

<p>One of my kids went to a college where her scholarship was a mix of merit and need. The other went to a college where the scholarship was only based on need. Frankly, I think saying “she got a great scholarship to her college” should suffice at ANY college. Why does someone have an obligation to explain the specifics? The point is that the scholarship helped the student to attend and was nice to get.</p>

303

<p>People don’t have to specify the specifics. Calling it “a scholarship” is fine. It’s a bit unethical to brag about one’s “merit scholarship” to a need-only school, but when the situation’s not so clear-cut and/or one isn’t bragging, just calling it “a scholarship” is fine.</p>

<p>EDIT: Just want to specify what “context” is by giving (made-up) examples.
Saying “Oh, my kid is so smart, not only did he get into Harvard, but he got a FULL RIDE there! I mean, how smart do you have to be to get a full ride at Harvard? Too bad your kid couldn’t do the same!” is bragging, regardless of what the award is labeled. Certainly getting into Harvard is difficult, but getting a full ride there is unrelated to merit, unlike what this person implies.
Saying “Oh, I’m so glad my kid got a full ride to Harvard, now we can afford to send a kid as smart as him to such a great school.” is fine. It might be bragging a little, but it’s not saying the award is due to how amazingly smart the kid is, unlike the first example. And it’s vague about what the award is- calling it “merit aid” would be false, but calling it “a scholarship”, “financial aid”, “a full ride”, etc. can mean either merit or need-based, and thus is perfectly alright.
When in doubt, it’s probably fine. Just label it correctly or be vague, and try not to imply something false, and you’ll be in the right every time.</p>

304

<p>

</p>

<p>Because, honestly, I think (many) people do use “full-ride to elite school X” to imply superiority, and it bugs. I call my merit aid merit aid/scholarship, my fellowship a fellowship, and my GAship a GAship without ambiguity. Call it financial aid, or need-based aid, or simply generosity, but I do think many (not all) families intentionally hope the ambiguous “scholarship” or “full ride” will be read as “merit aid” (i.e., “my student not only got into elite school x, but they got a FULL RIDE. So, my kid is the BEST at elite school X.” ). I got merit-based funding to both my undergrad and graduate school; however, I don’t think trumpet this–I simply say that the funding mad the school very affordable for me, and I’m grateful for it. I also don’t think I’m “the BEST” at either school, just that I was lucky to be awarded such nice merit aid, or in the case of my GAshi;, work. </p>

<p>Why can’t I be bugged by one thing? I’m not bugged by legacy, AA, FA (except that I feel bad for families that get snowed by it due to odd financial situations), athletic recruits, athletics, etc., so I think it’s unfair to say I’m bugged by by “every minute thing.”</p>

305

<p>psych_: a little empathy may help. recognize that those obnoxious parents who feel the need to brag about how much money their kids are getting (no matter which category the $ falls under) are ultimately kind of pathetic. </p>

<p>u should hope and pray that u don’t find yourself one day desperately living vicariously through your almost-grown child.</p>

306

<p>I agree with the above posts. Intent is the crux of the matter. If the statement is designed to imply superiority over my child or anyone else’s child, then it is most definitely irritating because not only is it rude, it’s baseless if the aid being bragged about is actually need-based.</p>

<p>Also, even with legitimate merit aid, people try to compare apples with oranges. The higher your child’s stats are for the applicant pool, the more likely he or she is to receive merit aid at a school which gives merit aid. So a kid could get a great scholarship at lower tier school X and the parent could use that to make his child seem superior to an equally qualified student who received only a modest amount of merit aid from a higher ranked school, or no aid at all from an Ivy.</p>

307

<p>S2’s merit scholarship and overall aid at one school was nowhere near as generous as his financial aid scholarship at a higher ranked school. Both were specifically called scholarships, though I would never represent the latter as anything other than FA, because that’s what it is. I’m sure that my 86-year old mother, OTOH, feels free to tell friends about her grandchildrens’ ‘scholarships,’ even though we’ve explained the difference…</p>

308

<p>We went to a senior awards night. It included a handout of “scholarship and awards”. We only submitted a list where my son got merit scholarships. At first I was surprised to see schools such as MIT listed, but then I realized that “awards” could mean FA.</p>

<p>The bottom line is that is is confusing. No biggie for seniors - they have researched things and made their plans. But families of juniors may get their hopes up unrealistically.</p>

309

<p>I have to say… I google alert my kid’s school. Just yesterday a missive came up about a kid getting $160,000 scholarship over four years to attend need-based only school. It worded it like… so and so received four-year scholarship to attend so and so college for next four years. I know need is considered on a yearly basis and doesnt seem to do much beyond the couple thousand for NM scholars. So… I am assuming that at least some of this scholarship is outside and not from the school itself. Still it bothers me. And I really don’t know why.</p>

310

<p>D received full tuition merit sholarship but I have heard a few people (like one of her coaches) tell others she received a full ride. I understand they don’t know they difference.</p>

<p>During an awards ceremony I attended somebody listed a Pell grant.</p>

311

<p>High school asked for my S’s scholarship info for the graduation bulletin. I said it was $7000 in merit aid. They then asked for the official letter from the college. On Friday I saw a copy of the bulletin and it says $14,000. The college listed it as total ‘award’ $14,000 even though $7000 of that was loans. High school went with the total award.</p>

<p>Thanks to CC I am now “scholarship” savvy, but like other have said…this is very confusing and very deceiving to newbies.</p>

312

<p>I don’t think that there is malicious intent in most cases. Outside of education the word scholarship is used synonomously with need based grants. If a kid is given money to take a trip or attend a camp it is often called a scholarship even if their is nothing scholarly about the award or the experience to be had. </p>

<p>Recently a friend with a child at a no merit aid school lost his job. Friend reported that the school obviously thinks a lot of his child because they offered her $x additional scholarship so she wouldn’t have to leave the school. </p>

<p>It is misleading. But then again so is scholarship money. All of the schools that offered S true scholarship money were schools he didn’t want to go to or at lease didn’t want to go to as much as the school he chose. HS was of course all over these totals. The fact is if he had applied to more schools that he didn’t want to go to he probably would have accumulated more merit based scholarships. In the end S saw none of the money bragged about. It also turns out that schools that offerered relatively high dollar merit based scholarships ended up with the remaining costs being higher than schools offering less in merit aid. I know this isn’t a rule just our experience. People often just hear what the student got not what they had left to pay. </p>

<p>When you frequent these boards it seems that everyone should know the difference but they don’t. But then when a student attends a no loan school and recieves lots of grant money it is like the school is saying we think all of the students we accept are so wonderful we don’t want any of them to have to turn us down because they can’t afford it.<br>
The fact of course is that many do turn them down because of discrepancies between what school determines the EFC to be and what the parent believes they can afford.</p>

<p>Reverse situations also occur. There are times when ability to pay figures into the descision to admit students. So that rich student can boast they got into one Ivy or another when poorer student with an identical record will not get in. </p>

<p>I think when it comes to colleges we have to do our own homework and then celebrate for those who get to go to schools they are excited about regardless of why the money became available to them. </p>

<p>Like many other things this is often harder on the lower upper middle class who don’t qualify for aid but can only afford state schools because their EFC is too high. So we all know life isn’t fair. When we have a kid who has to give up a dream because of money it helps if we can understand the system enough to set the record straight.</p>

313

<p>

</p>

<p>Just as I am peeved when people claim “scholarship” to need-blind school and need-only schools, I am equally ticked when people assume the reason kids are accepted to these schools is because of family money. Let’s put it this way, if this were actually the case, the kid with the “identical” record would also get an acceptance but just not get the financial aid making it possible for him/her to attend.</p>

314

<p>I didn’t know what the different of categories of scholarships were, nor what Financial Aid really meant until reading about it on CC for about a month or two. I think that CC represents a pretty small slice of the population going to college and their parents so it wouldn’t surprise me if the vast majority didn’t know the subtleties in those things that make it easier to attend college. Like the other thread goes: just smile and nod.</p>

315

<p>Some excellent remarks here on this last page. My issue with folks saying they got merit money from need only schools, or full rides when they were partials, or an athletic scholarship when the school is D3, is that when these discussions occur there are parents and kids who hear this stuff and it misdirects them. It contributes to the myth that if you do well, you’ll get into the school of your choice and they’ll pay for you. Or that good students will get good scholarships. True, but in a narrow sense. Very misleading to hear that someone got a full ride to Harvard, and it turns out that they happened to meet financial aid guidelines. If you are set on going to Harvard and having your way payed and your parents are not within those guidelines, everyone is going to be in for a surprise. There are parents who are not saving money for college because their kids are top students, they hear these tales, and they think that the money and HPY are going to be begging for their kids.</p>

<p>I had no idea how things worked until my son entered the application arena. As a national level athlete, certainly competitive and desirable on most NCAA teams, I had heard so much talk, rumors, bragging about who was getting athletic money from where. The first bummer was to learn about Div 3 rules. No athletic scholarships there. Many of those bragging about those athletic scholarships were getting either financial aid or merit money since those schools have no athletic scholarships. Then we learned that none of the ivies and certain other selective schools do not have athletic scholarships even if they are Div 1. Then came the blow of learning that there are a number of schools that do not give athletic scholarships for that particular sport even if they do give out athletic scholarships per se. Unfortunately, those schools were the ones that S was eying. Then we found out that even those schools that gave athletic awards for that sport, chopped up those awards into pieces and not everyone on the team got anything significant, in fact, only the most coveted athletes and even they did not get the full amount allowed.</p>

316

<p>My daughter is attending Harvard in the fall with a full financial aid package. This is always what I tell people, but lots of of them translate this to a scholarship. One of my friend’s son smokes dope 24/7 and skips about 50% of his classes and is on academic probation most of time, but she says the reason he won’t be going to Harvard is because “we can’t get money like you can”. Equally irritating, believe me.</p>

317

<p>As a parent who is in slightly different FA waters with a D entering med school, thought I’d tell ya …everything stays the same, just the “stories” get even bigger. </p>

<p>

Yeah. That happened. Uh-huh. Yep. Sure she does. And next year it’s $100K. And then they crown her Miss America and…uhh…give her a Ferrari. And she’s dating that Vampire movie guy. ;)</p>

<p>Edit: My kid is a such a loser. In comparison. Maybe I should email her the story of this gal. As motivation. ;)</p>

318

<p>A true story from last year’s graduation (where our little public school happened to have its first two Yale admits in many years) . . . .</p>

<p>Announcer: “And child one will be attending Yale University next year . . .”
Crowd: “Whoa!”</p>

<p>(five minutes later)</p>

<p>Announcer: “And child two will be attending Yale University on a scholarship next year . . .”
Crowd: “WHOAAAAA!!!”</p>

<p>P.S. Neither of these was my child.</p>

319

<p>Curmudgeon, that can happen. I know of several folks who went to state schools and ended up at Johns Hopkins Medical School from the Eastern Shore of MD. Considered a depressed area with a shortage of doctors, there are scholarships available from there and other such places that will pay your way with a commitment to practice in the area. Don’t know if Yale participated and contributes to such a program. Also URMs and financially disadvantaged kids can find some pay programs.</p>

<p>My friend’s son did go to community college for a year, then to Marshall U in WV all on the Promise (?) state program. He is now at UWV medical school, getting his way pretty much paid through some program or other. Parents are immigrants, family has a zero EFC, kids have the grades and test scores for Promise which will pay state tuition for residents. Georgia and Florida have similar programs.</p>

<p>They did not apply to any WV schools that freshman year for their son, hoping to get great financial aid/merit packages at dream schools. Despite an EFC of zero, and first generation American status, definitely a high achieving hardship case, he did not get anywhere nearly enough financial aid to go to any of those schools. They did not understand the system at that time, so they came up empty handed. But they did get the Promise grant, and so he decided to go to community college. The following year, he applied and was accepted to UWV and between the Pell, Promise and another grant, was able to go there loan free for the next three years. </p>

<p>Another friend got both of his kids through the Arizona state uni systems loan and payment free as those kids were excellent students. They kept their merit awards through college. One did have med school aspirations, but I don’t know if they were realized. </p>

<p>Going to a wedding this month for a lovely daughter of old friends. The young lady graduated from U of IL/ UC and with outside scholarships and a small merit award along with NMF money is loan free and did not cost her parents much. She went to law school at Notre Dame in a dual program that was a joint Philosophy PHD/Law degree and the whole thing was covered by stipends and grants. She did not get the PHD as she was just burned out from that load, but did get her law degree. Again, debt free and with little or no parental financial input. I know another student who did a similar thing. </p>

<p>There are stories of kids who have succeeded going the community college/state schools route and who have done very, very well and are loan free. My second son is loan free, and so are we on his behalf. He went to a SUNY and got a scholarship that took care of most of the first two years costs. The tab was reasonable enough that we could take care of the difference among our savings, his savings, our earnings, his earnings, so that no loans were needed. </p>

<p>Not an easy route for most, however, I can tell you. The journey was fraught with disappointments from other routes through college that were denied.</p>

320

<p>GreatWhite - your post is a perfect example of the issue at hand.</p>