If your sole reason for applying to a top prep school is to get into college...

Prep School Admissions
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<p>you are making a costly mistake. Go to your local public school. Save your money, and make your parents tax dollars work for you. Show how you can shine as a Big Fish in a small pond. This is much easier to create a stronger application than being just another overprivelleged Prep in the middle of your class. At a public school, you are able to stand out and get leadership positions easier, get better grades while doing less work, and most importantly, you will learn how to work with the average folk, because in the real world of occupations, which is the future goal of the vast majority of students (except the overprivelleged that will live off thier parents fortunes), you are not going to be able to only have to deal with other elitists. Sure, they are more opportunities at a private school, but in terms of college admissions it's better to show you have done more with less. If you take the iniative on lost opportunities, you look better in terms of an application. </p>

<p>You may say, Mike, you are wrong, because look at the matriculation numbers each year of top prep schools. I respond, that has more to do with ability than the prep school itself. </p>

<p>I did try to apply to prep schools when I was in 8th grade and thankfully I had the arrogance to not study for my SSATs, bomb them, and get rejected from everywhere I applied. I am much better off in terms of admissions. </p>

<p>You need to ask yourself, why are you applying to prep schools? I do not shun you if you feel you truly would be happier in a community where everyone is smart (or smarter than your local community). But think about it.</p>

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<p>agreed .... no doubt</p>

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<p>Yes, but I want to go to boarding school to have the atmosphere, not the college matriculation rate. I realize that your projected SAT scores depend more on where you're going to college and not where you go for HIGH SCHOOL.</p>

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<p>That is a very important message, Mike. I agree completely.</p>

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<p>no offense, but aren't most people here informed of this?</p>

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<p>I totally agree. It will technically be easier to stand out when you aren't surrounded by thousands of extremely bright and intelligent students. And very accurate comment about dealing with people in the real world. Good topic to post about!</p>

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<p>Thank you for your opinion mike. </p>

<p>Unfortunately, you make many incorrect generalizations about the economic makeup and motivation of prep school students, college adcom decisions, and the comparitive opportunities available between public and prep schools.</p>

<p>First, not all prep school students are overprivledged kids who will "live off their parents fortunes". If you do a bit of research, you will find at most boarding schools between 30 and 40 percent of students receive need-based financial aid. Not exactly the Rockefeller's here. Personally, my marginal tax bracket is the 15% bracket. Hardly the tax rate of the rich and shameless.</p>

<p>Your second incorrect generalization is that kids apply to prep schools only for the perceived advantages in college admissions. Yes, there is a misconception that graduating from the top schools gives you a greater chance of admission to an Ivy League school. Some choose to believe this myth.</p>

<p>The basic facts are that a large number of incredibly bright and highly motivated kids attend these schools with few if any dim-witted slackers making the cut. So of course, the percentages of admissions to top colleges rise statistically.</p>

<p>But beyond that, top boarding schools do a better job of preparing students for the challenges of living independently than living at home attending public schools. This is recognized by universities. And with more resources available for college advising, prep school students make better choices in which schools they apply to, thus improving their acceptance rates.</p>

<p>Getting back to that second misconception that college admissions is the only reason kids apply -- You entirley miss the educational opportunities available at these schools. The kids admitted to these schools want to learn Latin, and take math beyond Calculus while in HS - opportunities not available in most public schools. These kids aren't taking these courses to build their resumes, as they actually are interested in the classics and higher level math.</p>

<p>Your logic about being a big fish in a small pond (public school) being advantageous, you haven't read enough of the posts in the College Admissions section of CC. Many adcoms participate and have disspelled that notion. Colleges have had a long time to figure out who has really gone above and beyond to achieve as much as they can. The kid who seeks out Prep schools and takes the most challenging courses s/he can (with the support available at prep schools) will achieve more than a someone maxing out their public school (and not working as hard as you point out) and that prep student will have an advantage in admissions.</p>

<p>One thing you are correct in is that you were arrogant in not studying for the SSATs. Perhaps you were not mature enough to understand what is involved in getting into these schools?</p>

<p>Unfortunately, that arrogance seems to have been replaced by denial and misplaced hostility focused on the missed opportunity of prep school. My sympathies to you as you struggle to gain the humility to understand that only through hard work and learning from your mistakes can you improve yourself.</p>

<p>I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, but your original post seems to be more hurtful than enlightening. A lot of heat, but not much light. I owe it to the thoughtful participants in this forum to help dissapate that heat and shed light on the subject.</p>

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<p>thruthfully put, goaliedad.</p>

<p>if i had a 4.0 with a courseload that public HS offers (lets say, US history AP, English, calculus, elementry economics/AP economics, spanish iii, and physics) and was a leader of 2 mediocre clubs at a public HS, i would have a lotttttt of trouble getting into an ivy these days. ..even while playing a varsity sport.</p>

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<p>I agree with you as well, goaliedad. I think that Mike's main point--that you shouldn't apply to prep school just for the college matrics--is correct and a good warning. However, I also think that he had the misconceptions you noted in your post.</p>

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<p>Please! Mike did NOT say that "kids apply to prep schools only for the perceived advantages in college admissions." </p>

<p>He said that the ones who do apply for that reason should give it a second thought, and I think most of us agree, no?</p>

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<p>were these schools not put in place originally to prep for any ivy league / HY education? Sure there are alternatives that did not exist in 1789,but there are also alternative ways to "prep".If you finish number one in your class at phillips E or A you a likely to attend an ivy.#1 in the largest HS in Boston or Dallas my guess is your odds diminish somewhat.More and more kids are looking for the broadening experience of a top boarding school ,and through that figuring out the next step.To apply with Ivy as a sole priority seems to be more the domain of international applicants who think there is a "formula".I forgive the original rant as frustration and agree with parts of it.However,to abandon the genesus of prep is to abandon the ideal.</p>

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<p>I would like to start off by saying, yes I did make some generalizations that I'm glad goaliedad caught, for the reason, that I don't explicitly know the whole private school process (as I'm an outsider) and just fit it into the stereotype that one would view.</p>

<p>Well, in order to prevent sounding like a complete hypoctire, I did, and do acknowledge that the reason I did (and do want my children) to apply to private school is because I believe that the environment at a prep school is a beneficial factor in the growth of an individual. These are same reasons I'm applying to private colleges presently.</p>

<p>I would also like to make the point that a student can work less hard at a public school and still take "the most rigorous courseload available". One is able to achieve a better rank (most likely) in a public school than a private school, which is consistantly a very important admission factor. I understand that in terms of the admissions process, a prep school forces you to be involved in your school and enable recommendations to be better written and/or have more impact than what one would probably receive at a public school. If a student at a public school, however, decides to get to the level of Latin or Mathematics that a private schooler is learning, I would argue that the public schooler looks better for taking the iniative and showing his or her passion for learning, rather than just taking a course in a sequence. </p>

<p>There are a lot of problems with public schools presently, and I don't want to discount them, but I feel if one want to make the financial and time commitment for a private school, then it should be for the sake of the environment. I would also like to point out, that the extra thousands of dollars that a family saves by not going to private school, assuming no financial aid, can be used for other self-fulling purposes(maybe even towards SAT prep, in order to catch up in the admissions process to the private school kids).</p>

<p>In response to "better advising" in private schools, if a student is concerned about his or her lack of advising, he or she could mozzy on over to collegeconfidential.com and become well versed in the field. </p>

<p>It is the motivation of the student, not the school itself that creates benefits in the college admission process. If a student was particularly unmotivated (such as myself in the arrogant years) they may have been able to done better with themself in an environment of competition of a prep school. I know it was not until late in my sophmore year that I became a motivated learner. Would a prep school straightened me out earlier, probably. I argue, that it is cost effective not to go to private school as a secondary school student. </p>

<p>goaliedad, I appreciate how you blatantly opposed my points, and I love a good debate.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Please! Mike did NOT say that "kids apply to prep schools only for the perceived advantages in college admissions." </p>

<p>He said that the ones who do apply for that reason should give it a second thought, and I think most of us agree, no?

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</p>

<p>I'm confused... You said that mike didn't say that kids apply for that reason but then said "the kids who do apply for that reason". </p>

<p>He did say that "kids apply for that reason" and that they should look further -- and I agree with that. And I probably should have said that to his credit.</p>

<p>However, I did take the general tone of the post as a generalization about prep school applicants given the other generalizations about living off their parents money and such. And to me, it sounded like the post was coming from negative feelings regarding his past experience with prep school applications.</p>

<p>This I think to be a legitimate point.</p>

<p>I am trying to keep this topic positive and am not taking exception to what you said. I'm just trying to explain my perception of the tone of his original post.</p>

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<p>Goaliedad, your editing of my remarks seems fairly churlish for someone trying to keep the topic positive.</p>

<p>Please note the existence of the word "only" in my first line (it was actually your word being quoted) and then the fact that I deliberately italicized the word "do" in my second line. The meaning might become clearer then.</p>

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<p>
[quote]
goaliedad, I appreciate how you blatantly opposed my points, and I love a good debate.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Well done, mike. And I'm glad to see that this thread isn't about throwing hand grenades either. I hope you appreciate that I've tried to refrain from insulting remarks (and I'm glad you have too!). I've had one negative experience on this board with a certain poster who likes to insult the academic qualifications of several of the participants here and would like to do better.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Well, in order to prevent sounding like a complete hypoctire, I did, and do acknowledge that the reason I did (and do want my children) to apply to private school is because I believe that the environment at a prep school is a beneficial factor in the growth of an individual. These are same reasons I'm applying to private colleges presently.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>Your logic almost argues for going to prep school, mike except that you have an economic problem with prep schools.</p>

<p>However, almost the same economics apply to prep schools with regard to affordability that apply to the public versus private college debate.</p>

<p>In the public vs private college debate, many economically disadvantaged people don't realize that the FA at private universities often make them more affordable to them than going to the large State U as the State U FA packages rarely have need-based grants and are primarily filled with loans as not as much grant money isn't typically available at public colleges.</p>

<p>Likewise with prep schools vs "free" public schools, the price of attendance, while significant is often offset to a degree by FA that the additional value is well worth the tuition.</p>

<p>In my situation, the cost for my D to attend her school is close to the same money that I used to pay to keep her in travel hockey. And the personal attention and other benefits of her school make it worth any extra I pay. For other parents who supplement their children's public education with music/dance lessons or other such ECs, the tuition minus FA is a good bargain.</p>

<p>Plus parent time is worth something. </p>

<p>Now for those who make enough money not to qualify for FA, the $40K cost of a boarding school education is not as big of a sacrifice to their lifestyle and is a way of assuring that their children will get the best opportunity they can in life. </p>

<p>They can also afford bigger cars with more safety features too to assure minimum risk of injury in the event of an accident. This is a great country when people can achieve so much because eventually more of us can afford it.</p>

<p>So seeing that you are looking at private colleges because you see the advantages of not being in a classroom taught by a TA who speaks with a heavy foreign accent (typical at large public State U's). You get more face time in smaller classes with the actual professor. I'm with you 100%.</p>

<p>I just see very similar arguments for sending my child to boarding school. And I see the similar economics of it.</p>

<p>And quite frankly, I'd rather spend the money up front to get the education right early for my D rather than trying to remediate a lesser public education later on. I consider myself lucky to have the opportunity to do this for my D, as without her athletic skills (which irrationally I've put lots of money into - a topic of another great debate) she would be stuck in public schools. And quite frankly, she has told me that she used to sleep through classes that she got A's in in 8th grade as the culture in her school didn't really support go-getters. It's awful hard for a kid to work against the popular culture in their school.</p>

<p>Getting back to your original warning that going to prep schools ONLY to increase the odds of college placement... I'll agree with you 100%. Just please leave out the other stuff next time.</p>

<p>Looking forward to your reply...</p>

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<p>I just reread my previous posts and sorry if they sounded rather detached and like I wasn't paying attention. I'm kind of out of it today. :o</p>

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<p>
[quote]
Goaliedad, your editing of my remarks seems fairly churlish for someone trying to keep the topic positive.</p>

<p>Please note the existence of the word "only" in my first line (it was actually your word being quoted) and then the fact that I deliberately italicized the word "do" in my second line. The meaning might become clearer then.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>I am more in agreement with you than you may think.</p>

<p>My issue with the whole topic is that (no offense to mike) I (being a regular in the Prep School Admissions area of CC) found it strange that mike (not a regular contributor in this area in my observation) seemed to take issue with kids looking at prep school as a shortcut (my words not mike's) to college admissions.</p>

<p>While I admitted that that myth does exist, I (as a regular participant in this area) haven't seen this to be a widely believed myth from my reading of posts. And when I saw a couple of other, lets say objectionable stereotypes, thrown out, I saw the need to address the tone of the post.</p>

<p>I probably did a poor job (in haste) in parsing your reply. And perhaps I have a thin skin tonight about prep school student perceptions. </p>

<p>While none of us are perfect in our communications skills, I hope you understand that I'm really trying to be a good player here. </p>

<p>My apologies if I offended you.</p>

<p>I hope that I am steering this discussion better now.</p>

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<p>NP, I'm not offended; I probably have a thin skin about being misquoted.</p>

<p>Onward and upward...</p>

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<p>oh well ive always wanted to go to bs just to expose myself to all those fantastic opportunities in those shiny viewbooks, :D iono cuz i honestly dont care very much about college right now (err imean im not looking at 'what college id want to go to') </p>

<p>id just like to try something new. :)</p>

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<p>I don't want to be there just because of matriculation-- also the atmosphere..although matriculation is important, I think.</p>