<p>What are your thoughts on this?</p>
<p>Nothing personal against them, but it's unfair that some people come here legally and go through the hassles and paperwork. But they just come here illegally and are still allowed to stay in the US. And many politicians are supporting this plan to make them citizens. </p>
<p>What message is this sending? That people can come here illegally and they will be allowed to become citizens.</p>
<p>after an inevitable argument commences, this is going to be moved to the cafe.</p>
<p>It shows that someone is finally giving a rat's ass about the Latino vote. Someone who can get a policy like that for the illegal Mexican immigrants can expect a very strong Latino vote for years to come, especially considering how fast the population is growing.</p>
<p>People who are not familiar with the immigration process have a few hundred misconceptions. </p>
<p>To come here "legally" doesn't necessarily mean you immediately get a visa and a green card and get to stay. The "legalization" process may take years (in my case, 12 years). In that long, long time, you miss out on opportunities such as been able to drive, been able to get a job, getting financial aid, etc. </p>
<p>Even though you know, you are in the US legally for TWELVE years. The process can be up to 15 years, depending on several factors. </p>
<p>The people that come here ILLEGALLY do so because they can't come here legally. Think about it: our country can only grant several thousand visas a year right? Which makes it very limited. In other words, if you are an enginneer in Colombia, you will probably get a visa from the U.S. embassy and immigrate to the United States. Even though you could still eat and live and have shelter and food and stuff in Colombia because duh, you are an engineer. </p>
<p>However, if you are a poor farmer in Mexico, the U.S. WON'T grant you a visa because there are several Mexican proffessionals that we could get instead. (Which makes sense, we'd rather allow more doctors and lawyers into our country because we need them).</p>
<p>Thus, the extremely poor people (which are the ones that really CAN'T make it wherever they are and thus need to emmigrate somewhere else) are the ones that AREN'T allowed to immigrate (because when compared to a professional, these people wouldn't "contribute" as much to society).</p>
<p>Because the extremely poor people are pretty much starving, they will risk it and immigrate here illegally.</p>
<p>Once here illegally, there are very, very few options for them. The only way to legalize their status is to either marry an American citizen (a very popular business here in South Florida), get adopted (if you're a minor), or get your boss to petition for you.</p>
<p>The third option (getting your boss to petition for you) may sound reasonable at first, but its flaws become evident upon further inspection. 1) If you came here illegally because you were really poor in your native country, chances are you are not a professional and are employed in a technical career. 2) If you are illegally in the U.S. your boss can pay you whatever he wishes, because duh, you can't complain. 3) Even if your boss is very nice and decides to petition for you, you are under contract and he can pay you whatever he likes for some time (about 3 years. But I am not sure). </p>
<p>Thus, the people that came here because they truly didn't have a good like in their native countries are the ones left with no options. </p>
<p>Which is I feel that a "pathway to citizenship" is necessary. They don't want an "amnesty". They want a way, any way, to legalize their status. Because as described above, they don't have any options. </p>
<p>On top of it all, once you enter the U.S. and remain here illegaly, you CANNOT leave the country. Hence when politicians say: "They should go back and come here legally" it doesn't make any sense. Unfortunately, not many Americans are aware of this. If they did choose to leave the country, they would have to pay a fine of $2,000 and they wouldn't be able to enter the country again for 10 YEARS. </p>
<p>So for example, if you were a poor Mexican peasant and you crossed the border. Your kids are born here. You get a job and get a house and pay taxes (even though you don't get health care, social security, etc.). If you dare leave the country, you won't come back in 10 years and you won't get to see your children grow. </p>
<p>Or you could leave the country with your American children and go back to the miserable life you had. Thus, sacrificing all the opportunities America could give to your children and giving them a life of poverty. </p>
<p>That in short, is the immigration dilemma.</p>
<p>I don't like it. My mother came here legally as an immigrant and I don't think it's fair that people can come and break our laws and then expect us to allow them to stay. But I also don't think it's worth the money to deport all illegals. At least if we made them legal they'd have to do things like pay taxes, rather than us having to pay for their emergency medical care and their children to go to school, etc. </p>
<p>It's a torn issue for me.</p>
<p>My parents were legal immigrants too but I still feel sympathy for undocumented immigrants. MetdethGNR's post basically summarizes the reasons why. </p>
<p>I think that nowadays undocumented immigrants have been dehumanized so it's easy for people to say that they think they should be deported, etc. But if you really look at the individual situations, it's a lot more complicated. </p>
<p>Plus without them the Am. economy would collapse (or rather decline more rapidly than it is doing at present).</p>
<p>A parent of mine came here illegally with a story that could be made into a mainstream action movie from the same country that is the focus of heated debate today.</p>
<p>You can't judge illegal immigrants until you know the kinds of things they are facing both back home and in this country. </p>
<p>Of course, the US is still a country like any other with laws, but the US should work on being just a bit more humane.</p>
<p>My mom is a legal immigrant from south America. I think an accurate estimation would be around a couple hundred illegal immigrants (specifically from Mexico) that I know living in the US. I sympathize with their situation, as I do with anyone that is having a hard time making money, being able to eat, and having a place to live. That doesn't mean that we should let anyone having a hard time in their own country cross the border of our sovereign nation and gain citizenship without going through the legal process. The Mexican government should stop giving out booklets on how to successfully cross the vulnerable pockets of the Mexican-American border and instead spend money on eliminating the poverty it has long neglected.</p>
<p>I don't see why they can't become citizens. If you live in the US, like me, you are very lucky, why not allow other people come in and join the party? It just angers me that the "haves" won't let the "have-nots" even have a chance at "having".</p>
<p>While I feel sympathy for the illegal immigrants who come here because they can't immigrate legally or whatever, I think we should allow LEGAL immigrants who have a desire and intention to stay here forever to get greencards and citizenship first. Those people didn't break the law and were actually invited here, and most likely have some sort of exceptional skill. If they want to stay here legally, they can get in the back of the line, behind the people who were invited here.</p>
<p>Now before you bite your head off saying we shouldn't be letting more workers in when Americans need jobs, do you think the employers here WANT to hire H1Bs? Do you know how much paperwork is involved? They'd rather hire a greencard holder or American citizen. But there aren't enough qualified Americans to go around. We could improve education, but that's in the LONG TERM. In the meanwhile, there are employers who need qualified employees.</p>
<p>yesnomaybeso, if the U.S. let in anyone who ever wanted to live here, we'd have ridiculous problems with population and such
they can't do that</p>
<p>futurenyu, legal immigrants ARE already allowed to become citizens...</p>
<p>I understand that people get annoyed at the idea of illegals being able to become citizens after breaking the law and not going through legally, but its the best possible solution.
The reason illegal immigrants came here is because the COULDN'T get in legally and they were probably suffering in their native country
It isn't practical to "deport all of them." Too much money, and it wouldn't work.
By providing a way to become citizens we would make them pay taxes and all that</p>
<p>I think they need to implement the "pathway to citizenship" and then strenghten borders against illegal immigration to prevent it. </p>
<p>On the other hand, our economy couldn't function without illegals who are willing to do those low level jobs because of a lack of other choice.</p>
<p>basically, people with crappy lives in mexico and other central/south american countries walked across the border to the united states. then, they realized that the US wasn't paved with gold, because undocumented workers are a dime a dozen and getting documents requires that you came here with consent. thus, the growing petition for citizenship.</p>
<p>the irish, italians, polish, and chinese didn't have it easy either. they came because life in their home countries also sucked. they ran from famine, rebellions, oppression, and impossible conditions as well. they faced the same problems--low wages, long hours, abuse, and discrimination, and kept working anyway. their kids grew up in the slums and knew that dad wasn't coming home till after dusk from Monday-Saturday. they also vowed to live better lives, and eventually did so. </p>
<p>yet they came here legally, with much stricter visa limits restricting their immigration here(ex: the Chinese were restricted to less than 100 people per year for about a century, and now have the same limits as Mexico has despite their much-larger population). they didn't like it, sure, but they accepted the damn limits as a tenet of coming to the United States. they came here in constant numbers every year, supported each other in communities, and generally became a part of America. </p>
<p>Just because it's easier for Latinos to enter the US doesn't give its people the right to come over and demand citizenship simply because they're already here. It's impossible to prevent people from streaming across the borders, but that doesn't make it OK. It's impossible to deport every illegal immigrant, but that doesn't mean that they can receive the same rights as legal immigrants and citizens. The law is the law. Latin America's problems should not become our problems.</p>
<p>make legal immigrants citizens faster, and perhaps increase the quota. but do not bypass and negate the very purpose of the citizenship system.</p>
<p>Enderkin, don't make a generalization of all Latinos as the immigration problem. The alarming majority of illegal Hispanics in the US are from Mexico.</p>
<p>What I'm talking about is expediting the process A LOT for legal immigrants. My french professor's husband got his french citizenship in 9 months. He's never lived in France, he's never been to France, he doesn't speak that much French, the only reason was that he was married to someone who was French. The same process in the US would take years on end just for the greencard and more years on end for citizenship.</p>
<p>Now that's efficiency. We have more money than France, we should be able to complete the process in 6 months.</p>
<p>yesnomaybeso: if the haves allowed the have nots to have, the have nots will take the haves' money right out of their pockets. There's only so much money to go around. Of course you can print as much money as you want, while the value of that money plunges. Bottom line, there's only so much wealth to go around. The haves don't want the have nots to have because the have nots will ultimately have to have the haves' wealth.</p>
<p>beefs: whenever i argue with people about immigration, it seems that there is no right answer about how to refer to the immigrants themselves. People take offense to me saying Mexicans because they feel that it is not only Mexicans who are coming illegally, yet people will also take offense to me saying Latinos because the majority of immigrants ARE, in fact, Mexican in origin. </p>
<p>the conundrums!</p>
<p>futurenyustudent: France is also the size of Texas, and has significantly fewer applications for visas per year.</p>
<p>That's not an excuse. More visa applications=hire more people. There's simply no excuse to backlog for years on end. I wonder how you'll react if the IRS decides that they're only going to process 20% of all tax returns filed this year because they're understaffed and backlog your tax refund for years on end. You'll scream bloody murder, write your congressmen, and throw stuff.</p>
<p>If you expect your government to do a mediocre job, your government will do an abysmal job.</p>
<p>Let's see, what explanation is there for France granting citizenship more quickly?</p>
<p>Now I remember! People who desire to live here are streaming into the United States from around the world. And France...err...sucks.</p>
<p>There definitely is no excuse to backlog all the visas. I can't believe anyone is even trying to argue that there is an excuse. </p>
<p>The government is horribly inefficient in that department. </p>
<p>And what an intelligent generalization of France. People who desire to live in France are streaming into France from all around the world as well. What's your point? </p>
<p>You'd think since the US is getting such a huge population, they'd be better staffed to handle all the applications.</p>
<p>Brian, you're an idiot
have you even been to France?
I think not.</p>
<p>I think a permanent residency is okay. But citizenship? That's kind of overdoing it.</p>
<p>Also I'm a bit bitter because it took my family about 7 years to become permanent residents. Then it will take us about 3 more years to become citizens. But illegals can become citizens quicker? I just dont' understand.</p>