Illegal immigrants.

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<p>Pretty much all immigrants who came here (yes, even the post-Ellis Island ones) were looking for a better life and to escape the conditions of their home nation. They took the time to immigrate legally, so there is no reason illegal immigrants cannot.</p>

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<p>That’s still no excuse. There is a difference between “impossible” and “takes some time”. Yes, it takes some time to get visa, permanent residency, and citizenship, but it is not impossible. The immigrants who are here rightfully and legally have taken the time to honestly declare themselves and go through the proper process to come here.</p>

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<p>I do know. That’s why I said it’s only for people who <em>desperately</em> need to leave a country. Reasons for needing to desperately leave an entire country are persecution because of race, religion, nationality, membership of a particular social group, or political opinion.</p>

<p>The thing we are asking ourselves is whether <em>illegal</em> immigration should be allowed. The thing is, as the name suggests, illegal immigration is, indeed, illegal. People who immigrate here illegally are being dishonest and committing a serious criminal act, and if other crimes are duly prosecuted, I do not see why this one should be excluded.</p>

<p>As for the Arizona law, while some of the passages encourage racial profiling and perhaps should be revised, the law is a step in the right direction.</p>

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<p>Agreed.</p>

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<p>I beg to differ. For some, it is. Do you have the slightest inkling about what it takes to get a simple travel visa?</p>

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<p>Oftentimes, people who need refugee status most are denied it due to political reasons. See: El Salvador, 1980. </p>

<p>Furthermore, one must prove that one is being persecuted in order to qualify. That’s usually quite difficult, especially if the persecutors hide their tracks well.</p>

<p>I am quite certain that no one here is in favor of “illegal” immigration. Of course, as the name suggests, it is illegal. However, the question that I think we have to solve first is what we do with the ones here already. Should we boot them out?</p>

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<p>Expulsion of illegal immigrants won’t help solve anyone’s problems.</p>

<p>Immigrants are taking away jobs that Americans want? Do people know what kind of jobs immigrants are working? They take jobs that Americans do NOT want or do. For example, farm work, low factory jobs, scrubbing toilets, hard construction work. Immigrants wake up at 4 in the morning everyday to work 12 hour shifts, only to be paid 5-6 an hour. Are these the kind of jobs the Americans are fussing about? If Americans really feel that immigrants take away their jobs, join this [TAKEOURJOBS.ORG[/url</a>] . We’ll be happy to have you. And, many immigrants do pay taxes, they sign up for an ITIN numbers and pay taxes yearly. [url=&lt;a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm]Many”&gt;http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/taxes/2008-04-10-immigrantstaxes_N.htm]Many</a> illegal immigrants pay up at tax time - USATODAY.com](<a href=“TAKEOURJOBS.ORG”>http://www.takeourjobs.org/)</p>

<p>What many people don’t see when the immigration subject comes up is the kids, and the students of these illegal immigrants who have been in the US all their lives and have grown up here and did well in school. It was obviously not their choice to move here and many are suffering the consequences. Many undocumented children are unable to pursue a higher education and some who were fortunate enough to finish college from Harvard, Yale, etc are unable to obtain jobs. I know CIR is nearly impossible right now, but at least try to pass the Dream Act for these students.</p>

<p>Dream Act has a provision that does not allow for federal aid, so I don’t see why Americans are fussing over it.</p>

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</code></pre>

<p>[Bill</a> Text - 110th Congress (2007-2008) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)](<a href=“http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110u6AfBG:e15387:]Bill”>http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c110:1:./temp/~c110u6AfBG:e15387:)</p>

<p>The Higher Education Act of 1965 sections referenced here provide for Pell Grants and the like. Under the Dream Act, I believe that illegal immigrants, in addition to having temporary permanent resident status, would be eligible for federal aid.</p>

<p><a href=“http://www.nrcyd.ou.edu/programs/pdfs/hea1965.pdf[/url]”>http://www.nrcyd.ou.edu/programs/pdfs/hea1965.pdf&lt;/a&gt; (Higher Education Act of 1965)</p>

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<p>YES there IS a reason. Do you know how relatively easy it was to immigrate through Ellis Island? You basically came through on a ship, signed some documents, answered some questions, and you were let in. That is NOT how it is today. You can NOT compare the two. </p>

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<p>For many it is impossible. In Mexico, for many, 10 years is a death sentence. Therefore, waiting 10+ years to immigrate is IMPOSSIBLE. You can’t immigrate if you’re dead.</p>

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<p>Please don’t give me a lecture about refugees. I work with them all the time. People from Mexico are war refugees. They are the victims of the drug wars raging there- funded dramatically by US dollars. They ARE refugees and deserve refugee status- ESPECIALLY since we’re a large reason why we’re putting them in this predicament. </p>

<p>And this still doesn’t address the other issue. The reason that illegals are welcomed here (and they are, especially by cooperations) is because it is CHEAP labor. It is the reason many of our prices are so low. For better or worse, this country THRIVES on cheap labor, and that is not available with an American work force. </p>

<p>Also- why are all the conservatives on Obama’s back? They were fine with Bush just kicking out the illegals and trying to put up a stupid fence. However, now they’re complaining about Obama not doing enough. Deportation is up something like 10-20% under Obama. HOWEVER, Obama is also cracking down on businesses who hire illegal immigrants- something Bush really did. So why do you think that conservatives are REALLY mad at Obama? Because he’s exposing the dirty little secret of what America runs on.</p>

<p>The new 2009 re-introduction of the bill specifically says that qualified students will NOT be eligible for Pell Grants, although they allowed to take in student loans and do work study.</p>

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<p>[DREAM</a> Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“DREAM Act - Wikipedia”>DREAM Act - Wikipedia)</p>

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<p>Oh, thank you for the correction! :)</p>

<p>I’d imagine that being allowed to take student loans and do work study still presents an improvement over the current situation. The temporary residency is key, as it allows them to apply to many scholarships that require some proof of residency status.</p>

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<p>QFT.</p>

<p>I am well acquainted with many individuals, some of whom are my own family members, who cannot immigrate here due to the corruption in the consulate. They have paid thousands of dollars they do not have, only to be told that their petition is denied for the simple reason that they are not well-connected enough. There are myriad factors involved here, and to reduce it to the whole “you should wait your turn” argument is disingenuous.</p>

<p>Yeah, and I don’t see any wrong with that. If the students are qualified both financially and/or through merit, then I think they should qualify for at least private aid.</p>

<p>I just feel like ranting a bit. What irks me is that people just can’t seem to accept the difference between ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, who are CRIMINAL INVADERS, and legal immigrants who we allow to come here after screening them. Every single country on the planet, including Mexico, kicks people out who enter the country illegally. The US is the only country on the planet that people accuse of being racist or treating all immigrants poorly. That’s a lie. It’s really annoying when Europeans or Liberals try to downsize the situation when it really isn’t like that at all. Also, Illegal immigrants seem to always say the system is broken. Why is that? Just curious because isn’t Mexico’s system broken also? If so why are they more concerned about changing our system and not theirs? I feel that is a legitimate concern. I do not feel that our system should change if they are not willing to step it up on their end as a country. So fix Mexico and it will fix all these issues. I would like to see people come together in their country like they do ours to make substantial change.</p>

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<p>QFT. No need to explain further.</p>

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<p>So how do you suggest the process be done? In an efficient manner, mind you.</p>

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<p>Pray tell, what planet are you living on? “Make substantial change?!” :rolleyes:</p>

<p>I wasn’t suggesting anything, I’m just annoyed at the fact that we’re the only country that people seem to get ****ed off at when concerning how we deport illegal immigrants. Should we pat them on the back for “getting this far” before sending them back?</p>

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<p>Are they here to assassinate the President and take over the country?</p>

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<p>Yeah, because Mexico has the same amount of resources as we do, right?</p>

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<p>Yeah, because these people wanted to be illegal, right?</p>

<p>Just my two cents. The issue of illegal immigration is inexplicably tied to poverty, as previously mentioned. Essentially, its an issue of human rights first and foremost. As long as there will be poverty in Mexico, Guatemala, and other countries which send a high proportion of illegal immigrants, there will be a constant flow of migration. But if one wants to approach it from a business perspective, the issue has become what it is due to decades of abuse and neglect from the big corporations which hired illegal labor to cut costs. If the government had cracked down on these corporations thirty years ago, we probably would not be in the mess we’re in right now.</p>

<p>Exactly, if you trace the root of the problem, it will lead you to the deficiencies of free market capitalism :D</p>

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<p>I did not compare the two. Notice how I said POST-Ellis immigrants (i. e. the immigrants of today). There are many immigrants who are coming legally into the country as we speak. Not only are these illegal immigrants criminals, but it devalues what it means to be an American. When you see those immigrants who have truly adapted themselves as Americans and are about to take the final oath of their citizenship, you can see how proud they are to finally have reached the land of opportunity. They tend to be much more committed to American ideals than someone who simply crosses a fence without permission.</p>

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<p>Still no excuse. By doing so, they only bring their problems to our nation. They are not entitled to come here.</p>

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<p>If they are truly refugees, on par with those from, say, pre-WWII Germany, then they can apply for refugee status.</p>

<p>Again, it is called “illegal” immigration for a reason; it is ILLEGAL. The people who come here illegally are committing a serious crime, a crime which should be persecuted like any other.</p>

<p>By the way (ironically), do you know the punishment for being an illegal alien in Mexico? It’s much more severe than ours. See this: <a href=“http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14632[/url]”>http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=14632&lt;/a&gt; . In fact, they deport more illegal immigrants than we do.</p>