I'm clueless & stressed out! - Questions about Music and Life in General

College Majors Music Major
1

<p>ANY ADVICE OR HELP IS GREATLY APPRECIATED. If I sound naive at all, sorry T_T. I feel my parents didn't prepare me enough for college regarding admissions and my future, so I'm having a really stressful time (and have been for the last couple months). I'm bordering on depression right now. I'm just afraid that I will hate myself for the rest of life, despite how optimistic I usually am. But if some of these questions are answered, and I'm better informed, perhaps I am over thinking some things or missing some important information that can help me out.</p>

<p>My goal: </p>

<p>To have a career that I can enjoy. One where I can wake up and not feel sick thinking about work. One that can make my life more meaningful. Don't care if I can't support a family (or rather, let's forget about that here). </p>

<p>Concerns: </p>

<p>1) It's too late for me to get into a BM program, be it Music Ed or Comp, let alone Performance. I'm not exceptional at neither the piano nor flute. I'm not even "good". I'm a mere Grade 8 pianist and not even "first chair" flute at my school. I'm only better than 50% of the other senior flutes; average.</p>

<p>2) I'm applying to music at Michigan State University and University of Michigan. MSU supposedly has #1 Music Ed since 1994. I've been accepted to both, but not for music. UM is much better than MSU overall. If I go to UM and take superior piano lessons, I could try to transfer to MSU for my sophmore year if I can pass the audition to get into Music. If I don't make it, at least I'll be in a good, cheap (in-state) school, and can take good piano lessons for non-majors. I could take 16 credits (30 minute weekly lessons) of piano versus the 24 minimum that Music Ed students need.</p>

<p>3) If I get into MSU audition this year for Music Ed, I'll probably go there, though most of my friends will be at UM and UM is overall richer and better.</p>

<p>4) If I have a 40 hour weekly job that I don't like, and regret not practicing more music as a kid, I feel like I will have wasted my life. 8 hours for 5 days a week is a lot of time. Though, it certainly is less than going to school, since the 4-6 hours of homework and studying I have now will be gone.</p>

<p>5) My only passions are music and art.There's also the growing eSports movement and my established place in it, so my back up plan is to do something where I can work with or work close to something I love. Being a finance/business person should let me do that.</p>

<p>Questions:</p>

<p>1) My graduated brother told me that in the real world, usually employees only know the name college you went to, and don't judge you by program. So if I go to MSU and become a band teacher, they surely will know that MSU has a "better" music ed program than UM? Or no?</p>

<p>2) For the interview that music education applicants need to fulfill, how exceptional do you have to be at it? Is the admission process mainly still on your performance, or do you have to be exceptional at the interview as performers need to be at their performance?</p>

<p>3) When you have a 40 hour weekly job, is life a lot more relaxing than in school, where you have several extra-curriculars you might not even enjoy and have to study and do homework several hours a day, or is life harsh and you just have to endure 8 long hours 5 days a week?</p>

<p>4) My piano teacher is a paralegal and about 45, he just finished his masters in piano pedagogy at a different university. If I were to get, lets say, a business degree at UM, and later in life, I want a masters degree, does it matter that you stopped taking college for a while? (Will they just transfer your credits as if you finished a bachelor's degree and went straight into masters? Will it cost the same just as if you were still younger?)</p>

<p>5) If I'm taking 66% of the piano lessons that music education majors take at a top music school (UM instead of MSU), could I potentially actually be a better player (and try to get into a masters) than if I were to go into Music at MSU, a third tier school, and also try to get into a masters? (Question is this: Is the difference between better and lower schools actually that significant? Or is it just the small polish things?)</p>

<p>6) There was a student teacher at my high school who went to one of the smaller, low low state schools, but got a job as band director in just a few months after graduation! He wasn't even that good at teaching or handling kids. Would it actually be possible for me to go to such a school and would lit be realistic for me to be hired, even if it is only from local companies? (If for example I do composition), or was he really lucky?</p>

<p>7) Others have mentioned the possibility of a creative path in college to get to your goal, probably with the help of social connections. If I dual degree BA and BPA (finance) at UM, where the BPA only needs 45 business credits, meaning all my 95 ish electives can be filled with the BA music classes, and finish comfortably in 5 years, will I actually be a better musician (excluding the music history knowledge part) than if I were to just spend 4 years of piano lessons but have more time to practice instead of sitting in history classes about music?</p>

<p>8) Generally (or if you know about UM or even MSU!) can you take BM music classes if you're not in the School of Music?</p>

<p>THANK YOU SO MUCH, IF YOU CAN ANSWER ANY OF MY QUESTIONS!</p>

<p>Ugh, just found out UM doesn't have a BA degree T_T</p>

2

<p>1) It’s pretty hard to judge music ed programs between MSU and UM. The smart person would do music ed at the program that costs less because the smart person knows that a teacher salary is not going to make you rich, even if you’re satisfied. Both schools are good.
2) For music education interviews and auditions, you performance level doesn’t have to be as good as those students applying to be music performance majors.<br>
3) All 40 hour/week jobs have their ups and downs, however, if you are good at what you do, have some passion about it, and enjoy the people that you will work with most of the time, then you will actually enjoy your job. If you are a student going for all A’s all the time and you have an extremely high expectation of yourself, which I sense, you will always be doing that to yourself, so you may always feel some level of stress, even in a future job. Look deeply into your real self and figure out what excites you and motivates you, and follow that thread so that your career taps into that as much as possible, and your stress will be as low as reasonable for your personality type for your future job.
4) Don’t worry about that now … that’s too far into the future. Too many variables will change for your between now and then.
5) The school does not make a strong pianist or flutist or vocalist as much as your personal drive and an excellent private lesson teacher. You can get a Masters coming from MSU or UM.
6) He probably had built his network while earning his degree. He probably also worked well with the school administrators and other teachers so had excellent references. No, he wasn’t just lucky, when the opportunity came, he was prepared.
7) I think you are mixing up different kinds of music. Music at a college of arts and sciences won’t focus on performance as much as Music in the College of Music. The requirements for each are very different, with some overlap perhaps in the liberal arts classes. If your goal is to become a great pianist, then apply to the College of Music as a piano performance major and private lessons will be part of the courses. If your goal is to become a music educator in a high school, then apply to the college that focuses on music education. If you want to major in composition, then you need a composition portfolio at most places, and you would apply to the College of Music or a conservatory. The number of degrees you are mentioning are confusing because you’re mixing finance with music then asking about which would make you a better musician.
8) You may be able to take some, but you will be excluded from some classes if you are not a music major, including private lessons (unless you pay more).</p>

<p>Great questions … keep asking and you will start to unravel the mystery of music and college and your future. :)</p>

3

<p>Yoshi, believe it or not, you are very much on track. I say this because 90% of new high school graduates have absolutely no clue of what they want out of life or what they want to do. You know EXACTLY what you want out of life (a fullfilliing career) and you have narrowed down your direction to just a handful of realistic opportunities. When I was your age, I only wished I was as un-confused as you are.</p>

<p>I pretty much agree with everything that Snowflake told you, but there are a few line item numbers I would like to add to.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Sometimes the audition will include an interview, sometimes they will not ask you a single questions. It just all depends on the auditioners, what mood they are in and how much time they have. At some of my sons auditions there was some formal interviewing, at others there was no conversation at all. There are some threads on this site about the interview issues with lots of questions that are typically asked. You may want to do a search for those as they are very helpful. But honestly, don’t be too concerned about that. In most cases the interview is not going to make you or break you. They understand that you are going to be nervous, and they realize that they are not auditioning for a public speaking program. I think that most of the time the reason they ask questions is just to try to be friendly. </p></li>
<li><p>Most jobs suck. Even ones you generally love will suck at times. Someone once said that the ideal job is the one that you would do for free if you were in a financial situation where you didn’t have to make a living. I see that you are seeking out that ideal job, you probably wont find anything perfectly ideal, be willing to settle for something that is close to ideal.</p></li>
<li><p>Once you have completed a bachelors degree from a regionally accredited college, you really don’t have to worry about “transfering credits” to a masters program. Most masters programs pretty much start fresh and don’t directlly transfer credits from undergrad school. If they are willing to accept you as a student, they make an assumption that you are reasonably intellegent and have decent academic skills such as reading and writing. There may be some prerequisits that if you don’t have you would have to take as part of your grad program, but that is almost expected. </p></li>
<li><p>for the most part, I believe that most classes are pretty much the same level of difficulty between colleges. There may be some some differences, but English 101 is pretty much the same whether you take it at community college or Harvard. Obviously some instructors are better than others, and there are some advantages of attending schools which have lots of high level students, but few people are going to look down on your bachelors degree no matter where it is from if you have good grades. I would never assume that a C student from a prestigious college is better than an A student from the lowest ranked state university.</p></li>
<li><p>You can definately get creative with your career path, once you start exploring options you will find that there are lots of ways to get from here to there, some of them are straighter than others, some of them may be quite convoluted, but they will all get you there. There will be advantages and disadvantages of each path, you will just have to personally weigh those factorsand choose the one that you think is best for you. You will make mistakes along the way no matter how much you plan or how hard you try. The mistakes make you stronger, and smarter even though they can be frustrating.</p></li>
</ol>

4

<p>What you are experiencing is known as growing up and facing the mysteries of what life will hold in store for you, I remember those times well, and not with a lot of fondness, so you have my sympathy. </p>

<p>I can’t speak about music ed, from what I know to be a music ed student doesn’t require the same level as a BM student might, but I have also heard it is pretty high level usually if not the same. One suggestion? Admissions people I have met tend to be decent people and they could probably answer some of your questions, specifically like what kind of level is required for a music ed degree and could you transfer…</p>

<p>As far as what your brother said about employers only caring about the school you went to, not the program, he shares a common misperception, that is especially strong in people who come from countries in Asia, like Japan and Korea and China, where where you went to school matters more then what you did there, and that isn’t as true in the US. </p>

<p>Yes, going to a ‘name school’ does help with first jobs, if a student got into a competitive school like U Mich or Harvard it says something about them, but that only really holds water with a first job, once you are ‘out there’ it is what you have done that matters…and the weight that holds is not as high as you might think. There are exceptions, there are still bastions of privilege, like Investment banking and post graduate school, lawfirms, that will only take students from “elite” programs, but that is very limited in scope. </p>

<p>As far as what working a 9-5 job is like, it depends on the job and your own particular bent. Despite what people say, that where you work shouldn’t matter, it is just a job, etc, that isn’t true, and you need at least some connection to what you are doing (for example, some people love being lawyers, they love it, I would be miserable doing that, plus would be terrible, my brief exposure to business law taught me that). If you are an extrovert and like dealing with people, being locked behind a desk writing code all day may not be a good fit, likewise if you are an introvert, being in sales might be agony…I have a career in a field I enjoy doing, because it combines the technical and business and people skills, but it has its ups and downs, have had times of great stress, boredom, questioning whether I wanted to do this, etc, and others feel very fulfilled. The thing is, you spend a significant portion of most days working, and these days few jobs are 9-5 with an hour lunch, most white collar jobs are much longer hours, lunch is eaten at your desk and work time piles over on private time, so you better like it:).</p>

<p>The good news? Nothing is set in stone, and despite what far too many believe, people re-invent themselves all the time, people change what they are doing, move laterally, do all kinds of things and the doors are usually open to do different things. The idea that if you don’t choose the right path at 18 is hogwash, that there is no room to try things, experiment, perhaps fail, is hogwash. In my career, I have had a job that ended shortly after it started (just wasn’t a match), had another career end after 16 years because the company I had worked so long and hard for was bought out by piranhas, and so forth, it happens.</p>

5

<p>I wanted to chime in about the dual-major…</p>

<p>A BA alongside your other Major of finances could turn out to be a VERY useful thing, as it will allow you to take college-level theory, functional piano, and ear training courses – all of which provide essential <em>required</em> training that you will absolutely need if you ever go on to get an MA or MM. I am a dual-major in BA(mus) and Anthropology, with an as-yet undeclared minor. I may be transferring into the BM program soon, however.</p>

<p>At my school, students in the BA are only required to take two semesters of each of the above, but I elected to take the full amount (four semesters of theory, four of ear-training, four of functional piano) and will be finishing these up this Spring. The anthro is setting me up so I can hopefully get into a dual-Masters program in performance and ethnomusicology.</p>

<p>Like you, I had to figure out the whole college and music thing without any help from the parental unit, whom I love and appreciate dearly but is very much not a “tiger parent.” :wink: I also became serious about music quite late in life, around your age. 22 now. Ha, looking at the biographies of some of the guest performers attending our chamber festival in the coming weeks is disheartening enough…there is one very successful bloke on my instrument (cello) who states he began at 1 1/2 years of age…holy cow, what was it, juice box-sized?</p>

<p>But life is strange. :slight_smile: Many kids who begin that early and are playing wicked advanced rep at 12 don’t go on to be pros…some get their conservatory degrees and happily do other things. Some forsake it all for their partners and settling down (something I’ve witnessed a few times). It’s just impossible for anyone to say, well, “yeah sure it’s impossible”. Ungodly in difficulty? Sure. Most anything worth doing in life is. But it is also impossible to track the life journeys of every single musician who ever stepped foot in a conservatory and beyond. In fact, I know a huge number of astounding players who outshine many of the world-famous pros (imo), but you will likely never hear their names…
So, who knows about all the non-traditional musicians we will never know about? I’ve actually met quite a few, including a BM undergrad on the flute who was like 28, attending a rather famous conservatory.</p>

6

<p>Not that I know but it would just seem that a music ed. major interview would be an extremely important part of the admissions process. If you do not relate well in the interview, how can the school expect you to be able to relate to a bunch of school kids.</p>

<p>As to school vs the working world. In school it is pretty much about yourself unless your in a group setting such as a band. In the working world, quite often a decision you make has a significant impact on the lives of others, such as the class of bright eyed kids you are teaching.</p>

7

<p>For what it’s worth, I have heard of U of M’s music program (and of U of M in general being a fantastic school) and had, until now, not heard of MSU’s. There have been several parents here with students studying music at U of M. Perhaps they will chime in, but it may take putting those schools in the title of a thread.</p>

<p>One other thing, I tend to agree with your brother in one way. One of the reasons my son chose USC to study music was the overall reputation of the university. There is always the chance that one’s life will take unexpected twists and turns, and if it turns away from music, having gone to the “educationally superior” school may mean something. Just perhaps not enough to base your decision on RIGHT NOW if your heart tells you your needs are best met somewhere else.</p>

8

<p>Also</p>

<p>One thing you can do to calm your nerves a little is to get a head start on your classes. Take a few classes at your local community college or tech school this summer (or even before you graduate high school). That way if you decide to change majors you will already have a few “extra” credits that may prevent you from getting behind in your new direction.</p>

9

<p>Wow, I really, really, really, really appreciate the help. I’ve asked a lot of questions on these forums already, and it makes me overjoyed to see so much kindness and generosity here each time I need help! I’ll be sure to stick around and help others too :D</p>

<p>A lot of the advice here and answers really cheer me up. I think I understand things a lot better now. And I think (the reason why I asked #8 is cus they’re on xmas break) UM does indeed let you take music classes (at least, the lower level ones) without being in the school of music, since you can take a minor in music. So even if I can’t get a BA, I can still take piano lessons and take the ear training courses (probably the most useful for my hobby purposes) and such!</p>

<p>So basically even though UM doesn’t give a BA, I can still take piano lessons, where in other schools you apparently have to have a BA.</p>

<p>@SnowflakeVT</p>

<p>“The school does not make a strong pianist or flutist or vocalist as much as your personal drive and an excellent private lesson teacher. You can get a Masters coming from MSU or UM.”</p>

<p>I’m really glad to hear this. I forgot to ask that question, and even though I didn’t ask it directly, you still answered it. Great! :smiley: I was thinking, the books that one school has can’t possibly make the student… it has to be the teachers/piano-lessons right?</p>

<p>@imagep</p>

<p>Wow, didn’t think of that. That’s a really good idea, I’ll do that for sure :D. Even if I don’t change to a major in music later on, the classes will still help my skills and knowledge as a musician!</p>

<p>“You will make mistakes along the way no matter how much you plan or how hard you try. The mistakes make you stronger, and smarter even though they can be frustrating.”</p>

<p>Ah, thanks for the encouragement. I think I like to be a perfectionist, so when something doesn’t go right, I feel really bad thinking that it could have been better.</p>

<p>@nebel89</p>

<p>Yes, I find it strange. I see these common application supplements, and there are some really good kids on there, much better than I. And yet they don’t seem to want a career in music. Anyways, good luck getting into a dual masters! That sounds like it’ll take a lot of work!</p>

<p>Well I feel a lot happier now, and worry a lot less. I’m glad I should be able to enjoy the rest of xmas break without feeling guilty or regretful. There’s a lot of options now that I am aware of that I didn’t know of or weren’t sure of before. It seems like I’ll be doing business as my main thing after all (for undergrad at least), and if I want to or can, I’ll transfer/switch into music or do a masters in music later in life, or some other creative path.
Originally I wanted to dual-degree business and music so I can do music while also having a “back up” and being more flexible having 2 degrees, I guess I can’t follow that plan now but I can still achieve a very similar idea/goal!</p>

10

<p>The details in your questions can be researched and answered. In general, though, I think it helps to realize that you are in transition and facing big changes, and there is a tendency for all of us to want some control in those situations. I am glad you feel more relaxed. Anxiety is normal at this time of life. As much as you can, let life unfold as time goes along and enjoy it! You will know the right thing to do, each step along the way, and can’t predict or decide everything yet. Good luck!</p>

11

<p>You may be able to do business and music at the same time, you just need to find the right school that will give you the type of business that you want that also has the same level of music that you also want. Keep looking for ways to make your ideal situation come true. As you get more data you will discover more options that make sense for you personally.</p>

12

<p>Thanks again! That is another part of what I was worrying about. I was worrying about the people around me who say things like “I know I want to do law” and seem to have a passion for them – careers that can support them well that they will enjoy, and I thought maybe I should have planned a lot better than this, thinking that my degree in college would decide everything else in life.</p>

<p>It’s nice to know my situation is common or “normal”!</p>

<p>Thanks Snowflake, I did not even think of that! Luckily a couple of the business schools on my list like UC Berkeley have music programs that fit the bill (lower level music schools or just departments with BAs!) And I still have time to search for some more if needed!</p>

<p>Also about working in real life I did not consider that HOW I would work would affect whether or not I can enjoy a job or not – that is, working in an office alone, or working with others, etc. etc.!</p>

<p>Thanks again everyone! You guys are so awesome! ^0^</p>

13

<p>Oh I almost forgot. I also had been considering taking a gap year. I read here that it’s not uncommon for people to do that to prepare for auditions. Since I’m so behind right now (to get into a competitive program to simply have a CHANCE of being able to support myself at what I want to do!) I probably won’t take the risk even though i did start school officially 1 year early, but I do have a question about how a gap year would effect the way a college views you as a prospective student? Would they think badly of you, or would they consider your academic record mostly the same way? I got into UM, so, assuming they don’t change their standards and all the other applicants are exactly the same, theoretically I would get in right?</p>

<p>And I also read that you can take a “break” during college, like stopping classes for 1 or 2 years, and try to transfer or get re-admitted as someone who studied there previously and left not because of some offense or other bad thing. Are these also common among music students who want more time to either get in to a music program or try to pass to the next grade level (since some colleges have exams to see if you can continue your program every semester or year)?</p>

<p>Sorry if my questions are hard or vague or things I need to figure out myself >.< Reason why I want to know the above 2 things is because, as long as you don’t mess up due to nerves, you could just spend forever perfecting the 3-5 audition songs to get into a music program, copying the exact interpretation of some professional for each song, instead of actually being “good” and then learning the 3-5 songs in a shorter time and with your own interpretation? Or is this what applicants do, to get in even if they will struggle? If this isn’t normal I probably won’t try to practice several hours a day and get in freshman year, since I know at UM at least I can take music classes and if, I get good enough, I can declare/add a music major or just completely switch out of business.</p>

<p>Edit:
Haha wow. Found out one of the MBA teachers at UC berkeley got a BA in music, then masters in music and education. Didn’t even need a doctorates? I guess a good example of figuring out life as you go ^^</p>

14

<p>You can do a gap year two ways:</p>

<p>1) Apply to school, get accepted, and then request a gap year before confirming your final acceptance. The school would call this a request to defer for a year (or a semester). This method could help you if you are accepted into a school that you like, but want to travel or just practice so that your placement level testing will go better once you start.</p>

<p>2) Take a gap year after your graduate; however, if you don’t already have a college lined up, it could feel like a gap summer because you still have to go through applications, possibly pre-screens, auditions, etc. If you do it this way, make sure you have access to your high school counselors and the internet to help you with the application process. What you do in the 2nd half of your senior HS year and the summer following is pretty much the only extra time that will show up on your application, so seriously consider if this could help you significantly or not.</p>

<p>Good luck!</p>

15

<p>I think you may be overthinking and overanalyzing. You have a good option for next year at UM, and could also defer, but it might be better to go and get settled first. You do seem a little anxious, and at this time of life, a little counseling can help a lot. You can’t anticipate everything in life. Just start on a path and let it unfold, veer a little, and see what happens. A counselor could help you do that, or even some yoga or meditation.</p>

16

<p>Thank you both once again :slight_smile: It is VERY much appreciated! I am always amazed at the help here!</p>