<p>ordinaryman,</p>
<p>Are you trying to finish quickly because you have limited financial resources? If so, have you looked at institutions in Canada or Australia? They often are less expensive than peer institutions in the US. In addition, those two countries are more generous with work permits while you are studying, and with work visas after you graduate.</p>
<p>happymomof1, are Canadian and Australian universities really cheaper for international students than American universities? When I took a cursory glance at Canadian universities last year, the cheapest one I found was $15,000 a year and others charged up to $35,000 for tuition. Did I select too small a sample?</p>
<p>b@r!um, </p>
<p>I have to admit I haven’t looked at all of them in great detail recently. However when I did check out peer institutions for certain categories a couple of years ago, the Canadian institutions were all less expensive than US institutions. Given changes in currency values, this might no longer be true. Links for tuition and fees that I found this morning for McGill [Student</a> Accounts - McGill University](<a href=“http://www.mcgill.ca/student-accounts/tuition-charges/fallwinter-term-tuition-and-fees/undergraduate-fees]Student”>| Student Accounts - McGill University) and Cornell [Cornell</a> University: Tuition Rates and Fees](<a href=“Tuition Rates and Fees | Cornell University Division of Financial Affairs”>Tuition Rates and Fees | Cornell University Division of Financial Affairs) indicate a difference of US$11,971 in international rates between the most expensive division of McGill (Commerce), and all divisions at Cornell. For Arts&Sciences at McGill, the difference would be US$23,789. Depending on the choice of major, a student could cover the cost of tuition and fees for two years at McGill for less than the cost for one year’s tuition and fees at Cornell. </p>
<p>Another factor that could be deciding for an international applicant, would be the difference in work permission. Again, this needs to be checked as it may have changed. The last time I visited this issue, student visas in Canada and Australia came with much more generous work provisions than student visas in the US. Not to mention that Canada and Australia have more rational work permission and immigration policies than the US. The formula for Canada is right on the government website.</p>
<p>My D is a fresh in college who plans to grad with a BA in two years. She started taking AP courses fresh yr. (AP Calc BC) and actually took a couple of grad courses as a high school senior. Taking 18 hours a semester she plans to grad in two years and apply to grad school but only for a MS not a PhD. I have read that this is unwise. She does not want to spend more time at the undergrad level. She did start college with 78 credits and has worked out the course load and it is doable. She has all of her basic stuff done and is in her major this semester. I have advised her to take longer and stretch it out, but she is anxious to finish her BA. She started CC in 10th grade. She also took her grad rec and did quite well. School has always been easy for her. Will it be impossible for her to get into a Masters program?</p>
<p>I am not qualified to give you general advice, but I wanted to share an observation with you:</p>
<p>In my field (mathematics), the most competitive graduate school applicants typically take a full course load of graduate level courses in their last two years of college and interact with professors pretty much like graduate students too. I have a single friend who started college very advanced, graduated at 3 years and is now a graduate student at MIT (the only top 10 graduate program that accepted him after 3 years). Graduating in 2 years would seem like a huge disadvantage in graduate admissions because that leaves only a single year of getting to know professors and gathering relevant experience (e.g. research) before grad school applications are due. </p>
<p>I have another friend (now an undergraduate at Princeton) who, like your daughter, started taking graduate-level math courses in high school. He will probably apply to PhD programs in the future, but (last time I checked) he was planning on staying in college for the full 4 years. If your daughter is at a university with a strong graduate program <em>and</em> is inclined to go into academia for a career, taking the full 4 years of undergraduate is not a bad option if that’s not a financial burden.</p>
<p>That’s for math. One thing I have learned is that graduate admission practices differ a lot between different fields. Other posters could give you much better advice if you shared the discipline that your daughter is planning to pursue her graduate work in.</p>
<p>Grad level courses in high school o_O</p>
<p>Is that even possible? You would be a 17 year old in a class of 23 year olds -.-</p>
<p>I had a high school classmate who was taking grad-level math classes by their senior year of high school, but I always thought that pretty rare.</p>
<p>I would generally advise against rushing through undergrad, especially if you have aspirations towards grad school - as another mentioned, there is more to grad admissions than grades and GRE scores, and it takes time to build a record of research and to develop relationships with professors. You CAN do it, but you need to remember that there is always a cost - perhaps the lack of research means you get into a masters instead of a PhD program, or you get into a less competitive school than you might otherwise have been able to, or perhaps you have to pay more (or all) of your educational expenses rather than having full financial support, or perhaps you enter the wrong program because you lacked a strong mentor in undergrad who could help identify and get you into the right program for YOU. There is, of course, no way to be sure - anything is possible. I just would recommend going slow and strong, rather than fast and weak.</p>
<p>Any reason for her to not look for a program with some sort of integrated BS/MS? That way she could keep financial aid for her MS which wouldn’t be as available in grad school.</p>
<p>^ Excellent suggestion! An integrated BA/MA program might be an interesting option if it is available, and - like you said - avoids some of the pitfalls of stand-alone Master’s programs. </p>
<p>Just to throw it out there, getting a stand-alone Master’s degree might be a bad idea in some fields if the ultimate goal is a PhD. In pure math, for example, stand-alone Masters are usually remedial programs for students who are not quite ready for a PhD program yet; the stronger students would apply straight to PhD programs after college. Having that Master’s degree might also make a student ineligible for a range of grad school fellowships, when integrated BA/MA students are still eligible to apply.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. She actually wants to major in Speech Pathology which typically ends with a MS. She is on a full four year undergrad ride so undergrad costs are not a problem. I think she is trying to stretch the four year scholarship to include her Masters. I agree taking grad course work and doing clinical experience as an undergrad would make her more competitive. At this point she wants to work with individuals and not teach, but at just turned 18 much can change. Her school has many fine grad programs and PhD options so over the next year or two her views may change. I suggested she at least use her scholarship to study abroad for a year and she seems open to that idea. As for taking grad classes (she only took two) as a 17 year old she seemed to fit in well and she said her profs were surprised when they found out her age at the end. It actually seemed a better fit then when she started taking classes at the high school when she was only in seventh grade, or com college at 15, there was a huge age spread there. But she has always been successful and well accepted. She does not seek the limelight but prefers to blend in with the other students. She has normal peer age friendships hence our decision to keep her in high school and grad with her peers rather than early. It is hard though when you are academically so far ahead of your peers. I can see how under grad classes are not challenging. She actually sat in on a few times in an abstract number theory grad course I took one summer at age 10 and aced the midterm, blew through Multivariable Calc and Diff Eq in 11th grade and hates math. Go figure!</p>