<p>Hi!
I really appreciate that you're going to the trouble of reading this. Thank you.
Okay, so to put it bluntly...I can't decide if I want to apply to Pratt or Trinity. I love applied math and science AND I love the liberal arts, AND I have strengths and weaknesses in both fields.
Here's my stats so you guys can help me out a bit more.
I'm a girl, from the Southwest
I have a 33 on my ACT ( I can use this in lieu of the subject tests at both schools right?)--A 36 English, 34 Reading, 32 Math, 29 Science
If necessary I have SAT scores too: 680 Reading, 780 Math, 760 Writing and a 770 SAT Math 2 Score, and a 650 Lit score</p>
<p>Yes, I know I have a really high SAT Math score...and a really low ACT math score, and a really high ACT English/Reading score, and a really low SAT reading score. Life bites. </p>
<p>My grades are pretty evenly distributed. I go to a school that offers no AP classes, I have had a 4.0 in my sophomore, junior, and now senior years.
BUT I had a 3.6 in my freshman year...so I'm ranked 10/50 in a super competitive private school
My ECs are really good. I don't need to share them and such, but if I do get into any college, it will be because of my ECs. They all relate to environmental research and public policy programs. That's why at Trinity I would major in environmental science and such, and at Pratt I would major in civil and environmental engineering.
What do you think? Trinity or Pratt? Where do my strengths (or lack thereof...) lie? I'm not really very sure...
Thanks again!</p>
<p>I think your chances are even for Pratt and Trinity and it really will come down to where you are most comfortable spending hours buried in the books and labs. Also I would send in my SATs…they won’t hurt you and might help you. The 36 Reading offsets the SAT Reading and the SAT Math offsets the ACT math. You have plenty of excellent SATII scores…no need to obsess on all of them being over 700 when you have Three high ones. Your scores make you look equally balanced in verbal and math…
Duke IS a liberal arts experience even though at Pratt your time is very occupied in engineering experiences that will take you away from some of the softer side of Duke. However, there are tons of cultural events for free every week…no need to cheat yourself out of a great liberal arts school if you do BME at Duke for instance…while engineering at some colleges that are stronger across the board in engineering than Duke is…can’t always offer the school cultural arts and sports availabel to Dukies. Also, opting to do FOCUS for a semester makes for a great transition from high school to liberal arts small classrooms before you take off into serious sciences…some of my son’s FOCUS friends walked right into med school and always treasured their FOCUS semester as freshmen.</p>
<p>Pratt is very tough and hard one one’s ego at first but in a recession, if you have the talent to do well in Pratt the rewards in the job market are there once it is time to job interview. Some of my son’s Pratt buddies did Duke Engage by the way and some did a semester abroad in Australia.<br>
Why not start in Pratt and switch to Trinity if you feel you don’t fit in for the long run?
Also the Nicholas school got lots of attention last year…take a good look…Robert Redford received an award there on campus last spring…their field placements are great too.</p>
<p>Haha well we both have the same problem, don’t we? I’m probably not qualified to tell you this, but I think you should apply to Pratt, since your math scores definitely make you a competitive applicant.</p>
<p>Thanks guys!
I have some more questions though
A) If my test scores do balance each other out, will colleges notice this? Or will they just choose to stare at the ACT even if I turn in my SAT and subject tests? Also, Faline 2: You said I had lots of scores above 700…but I think you misinterpreted my post. Actually, I have a 680 CR, and a 650 Lit, even though my ACT reading is a 34. Why that happened is beyond me…</p>
<p>B) Are my chances really even at both of them? It would be a lot easier to choose if they were significantly different at one or the other. Do I look competent? What other stuff do engineering people need? I don’t have any science awards, really…my main strengths academically are in Math and English/philosophy which is what is making this so hard. </p>
<p>C) Do I apply to Trinity for the Nicholas school? Will they look at my intended major, or not? </p>
<p>No, they’ll notice it and consider you best scores (at least Duke will). I also think you should send both the SAT and ACT scores. A 680 CR is not bad and your other scores more than make up for it. More information about an applicant typically makes him or her more competitive as it serves as reinforcement unless it is very negative information. A 680 CR and 650 Lit isn’t bad enough to ignore your great scores in other sections/tests.</p>
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<p>Nobody can say for sure, but it is common belief that Pratt is more numbers based, while Trinity has more variables. Thus, if your test scores and grades (particularly in math and science) are very strong you have a better chance of getting into Pratt since they look at more objective measures, while if your test scores and grades are relatively weak but ECs make up for it you have a better chance at Trinity since they look at the applicant more holistically. With your scores/interests, I think the chances are fairly comparable. In the end, it’s not a big deal as you can take classes in either school very easily freshman year without a problem. At the end of your freshman year, you can transfer by checking a box. Keep in mind, though, that it’s easier to transfer Pratt -> Trinity than it is from Trinity -> Pratt. Trinity -> Pratt would be easy though assuming you just take the necessary classes freshman yr (math and EGR 53) and do decently in them. Duke is not like some colleges where it’s very difficult to transfer; it’s not. You are certainly competent and I wouldn’t worry about major science awards; most Pratt people don’t have them either.</p>
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[QUOTE]
C) Do I apply to Trinity for the Nicholas school? Will they look at my intended major, or not? [/QUOTE</p>
<p>Yes, you apply to Trinity for the Nicholas school. Duke doesn’t consider your intended major in making admissions decisions (tons of people put undecided anyways, which is perfectly fine). They consider it in the form of what your interests are, but they don’t have a quota per major and one major isn’t harder to get into than another. They just consider you for Pratt or Trinity. That is, you’re compared to other people applying to the same college, not the same major. Of course, they want a diverse student body so it’s something they consider among the applicant pool as a whole, but it won’t have much (if any) effect on their admissions decision for a particular individual.</p>
<p>Wow. Thanks for that! It was super helpful. Since you mentioned something about tests/grades vs. ECs I’ll just elaborate a bit on the grades:
I already mentioned tests.
My rank is really really bad: 10/50. I go to a competitive, private school.
3.6 Freshman Year
4.0 sophomore, junior, and current senior years
No APs and such.
I’ve had straight As in math…and I’m taking uptil Calc B/C which is the most rigorous.
Science: I had Bs in Freshman Biology.
But A’s in four semesters of Physics (Physics I and Advanced Physics as well)
Now I"ll elaborate on ECs
I have piles of community service awards, both random and prestigious ones
Lots of speech and debate awards including two state championships
I’m the president of 2 community organizations, and the captain of my school’s debate team.
I also have a couple science research awards but nothing too intense.
And I’ve placed in some state math competitions, etc. I like math. And physics. But I love philosophy. And English.
Uh-oh.
Does this give you all any more insight as to where I should apply?</p>
<p>Most Pratt people don’t have major science awards? Really? Maybe I’m just crazy but why not? Haha I thought it was a really hard school to get into or something…</p>
<p>Well, it depends on how you define “major.” If we’re talking like Intel Science and other national science competitions, then, yes, most Duke engineers don’t have them. Only like 0.001% of the nation does. Duke is hard to get into, of course, but you don’t have to have a science award that is only given to 100 high school students across the country to get in. Honestly, apply to where you think you want to be. Don’t apply to where you think it’ll be easier to get into.</p>
<p>Ugh, well that’s the problem! I need some college classes to help me decide if I want to become an engineer or not. Right now, I just don’t know. So I might as well decide on acceptance chances…right?</p>
<p>Your chances of being accepted into engineering as a woman are probably 75% better than being accepted into liberal arts- just guessing, but engineering programs are always dying for girls. And, if you do decide to pursue engineering as a career, your job opportunities are huge. I switched from english to Chem E back in the 70’s, and when I graduated got a job as technical editor of a trade journal based in Europe- a dream job. My english major friends were working at Starbucks while I was traveling the world business class. So be practical- apply to Pratt, give eng. a try and you can switch later if you want to.</p>
<p>This is true for most engineering programs, but Pratt isn’t one of them. I’d certainly say that Pratt certainly gives a small edge to female applicants, but no way is the acceptance rate of Pratt that much greater than Trinity for females. By far the largest department (HALF of all engineers) is BME, a traditionally very heavy female engineering major (by engineering standards). About half of BMEs are female at Duke. Around the country, it’s lower than that, but much higher than all other engineering majors. Not sure the exact reason why, but perhaps women like a more “person/patient-focused” engineering curriculum; and BME is certainly that. The other majors are more male dominated, though. So while it probably is beneficial to be a female when applying to Pratt, it’s not *that *significant of a difference as it is with many engineering programs across the nation, mostly because BME is so huge at Duke.</p>
<p>Even if half the department is female, that doesn’t mean the acceptance rate isn’t high- could, be they accept 50% of the women who apply, just to reach the half female class ratio.</p>
<p>Well, in order for me to apply there…I’m going to need to look like I’m competant at math and science. I know I am, personally. But does my profile look like I am?
Thanks!</p>
<p>takes lots of sweat equity and grit to complete BME sucessfully. Your Physics ability is in your favor. Your SAT Math scores are in your favor. I think your odds improve if you share the SAT and ACT. Is it possible for you to sit in on classes in engineering at a local university if not Duke right away? Take a day off school and “visit” engineering classes.<br>
You will have to go on your gut and on what self-knowledge you have.<br>
Many Duke students are very balanced and strong in math and in verbal. That said, my son had a 780 in SAT Math and he was NOT strong enough for the next level of math required in engineering/premed. He discovered his limits Freshman year…not uncommon. He understood this as soon as he realized he had to knock himself out to make Bs in Duke math, needed to be tutored by his more gifted classmates and faced same high level of math required in Duke Econ. SAT Math is pretty basic foundation math…I think most people know if they have other layers of quantitative learning “in them” or not…give or take inspiring teachers…
Some people don’t need as much effort to upload new concepts.</p>
<p>True, you may not have the skills or desire to do well in engineering, in which case you transfer to trinity- at least you were accepted to Duke, which I still think would be harder for a woman at Trinity than at Pratt.</p>
<p>I don’t mean to hijack, but what would you say about a potential premed? As in would it still be possible to complete freshman year at pratt without killing your chances?</p>