<p>Why doesn't Princeton just offer meal plans to upperclassmen?</p>
<p>I guess it's part of the tradition. Unlike Yale and Harvard, they don't have a well-established house/college housing system (they renamed some of their dorms "colleges" in the 1980s, but it's not anything like Yale/Harvard's system), so I guess the eating clubs are the only thing that holds campus life together.</p>
<p>You see, there are all these conflicting opinions on how eating clubs affect the campus life, but I think in the end it shouldn't matter all that much. It's not like you'll totally miss out on the social experience at Princeton... you'll just hang out with other people like you. And I personally don't think your friends from freshmen and sophomore year will drift apart because of the eating clubs. So I don't think you should be discouraged by the eating clubs idea too much.</p>
<p>Princeton is building four year "colleges" that will offer meal plans to upperclassmen. It will be completely by the time we are sophmores (provided we get in, hope so!) and we would have the option of staying for 2 more years.</p>
<p>Princeton DOES OFFER meal plans for upperclassmen. It's an option you can take. Don't think that you HAVE to join an eating club. When you are an upperclassman, you can either a) Stay on the meal plan in a residential college b) go independent (cook your own meals, eat out, etc) or c) eat at an eating club. </p>
<p>And as Rhamster mentioned, they are building 4 year residential colleges as another option.</p>
<p>Eating clubs aren't for everyone, and this debate about them is really tired. Some people like them, and it's part of princeton's personality. If you are really turned off, then Princeton is probably not the school for you. But if you are just going off stereotypes, I would really suggest you visit and rethink whether you are going to let your dislike of them ruin a whole school for you.</p>
<p>if you're turned off by eating clubs, you should be turned off equally or even moreso by all-male final clubs (harvard), senior-only secret societies (yale), and recognized fraternities and sororities, with their hazing and cattiness, respectively (every other school).</p>
<p>lol every school has frats and sororities...if u cant handle eating clubs...greek scene? :-X!</p>
<p>f.scottie, the "secret societies" and "finals clubs" at Harvard, Yale, and other schools involve seniors only and a very small percentage of the student population. The Princeton Eating Clubs, on the other hand, are pervasive throughout the culture.</p>
<p>Anyone who visits and stays over a few days to each school will realize this, so don't try to cover it up.</p>
<p>yea, eating clubs have a huge impact on princeton environment, and thats why so many people love them. if ur looking for an anti-social environment, princeton is not for you =P if that means losing some of the top students...then :(, oh well. hehe</p>
<p>as i've said many times before, the club system's pervasiveness is actually a good thing. anyone who wants to join a club can, and the vast majority do. those who don't can still party at the clubs. contrast that to harvard and yale, where students have to be "tapped" by clubs and societies who deem them "worthy." because only a minority of students ever have that good fortune, it creates a stronger divide between haves and have-nots.</p>
<p>Many of Princeton's clubs are exclusionary as well, some using a black ball system to exclude people or being exclusive using other means. However, that wasn't the most important point of my post.</p>
<p>The point I was making, which you did not address, is that the difference between Princeton and Harvard, Yale, Berkeley, MIT, or other schools with tiny organizations such as "senior societies" is that Princeton's system is pervasive. In other words, if you talk to most students at Princeton, the Eating Clubs have a big impact on their life throughout all four years of undergrad. At Harvard, Yale, MIT etc those small organizations have no impact whatsoever and are really a very minor part of the whole college experience, if one at all. </p>
<p>As you said so yourself, the "vast majority" of students join an eating club at Princeton. That means there is a "significant minority" who do not. At other schools, 1% of people might join some tiny senior society, but the other 99% are busy with the marching band or the theater troupe or whatever else. That in fact creates much less of a divide among the student body than the eating clubs do.</p>
<p>i acknowledge that the club system is pervasive, and i reiterate that it's a good thing, a very good thing. every thursday and saturday, princeton students have their choice of about ten club parties - complete with free entertainment in the form of bands and DJ's and free alcohol. i think it's a superior alternative to room parties and greek parties, which are more sporadic, often exlusive, and sometimes dangerous because of their use of hard alcohol in unmonitored settings (the eating clubs have "safeguards" at the door, club officers have responsibility for all problems, and with hundreds of students around, problems are easily spotted and addressed).</p>
<p>as for your "significant minority" argument, the difference at princeton is that club non-members can and do still party at the clubs. that is, they still, if they want, are part of the social system. at yale, those not lucky enough to be "tapped" by a secret society will never set foot inside that society's "tomb." as for the part about other extracurriculars, it just doesn't make sense: at princeton like at yale, club non-members occupy themselves in various extracurriculars. members do, too. i don't get it.</p>
<p>and when u look at people who go to harvard, how many are that pleased with their experience? princeton has a very good rep for great undergrad experience. i know many people who go to harvard and all say that social life outside of class is pretty much nonexistent. lol, and people who go to mit, everyone talks about the frat parties. they claim they have the best ones in boston. greek life is huge at many schools, and if u dont think berkeley loves their greek life think again. Very minor, im not sure when u visited or who youve been talking to. Princeton is in a very rural area as well (well unless u talk about going to nyc every day lol). unlike schools like harvard/mit/yale that are located pretty much in a big city, there really isnt that much to do when u walk out of the campus. it is because of eating clubs that princeton is known to have a good social life as well (ranked very well by many college reviews such as the fun one campus dirt haha). my friends that will be going to stanford next year are all excited about the frats. my friend that is going to columbia is already thinking about what frat he is joining and how he must go around doing it. princeton's eating club is a MUCH LESS intense version of frats without all the hazing (and unlike frats, most of them are sign in and not even a majority of students bicker). if you think bickering is anything as bad as rushing, you are greatly mistaken.</p>
<p>F.scottie, there are definitely some positive aspects to the system, which you've explained very well. </p>
<p>It's up to prospective students to visit for a weekend (along with their other choices) and decide if it's for them.</p>
<p>At Harvard and Yale, only 5-10% of students are involved in any kind of frat or club. The school culture is so strong, most students don't need any kind of exclusive societies to join. For the vast majority of students, they have very little impact on their college experience. Cornell, Dartmouth and MIT are starting to move away from some of their frat culture as well. Meanwhile, Princeton is sticking to its clubs/frats (whatever you want to call them) and "most students" (or perhaps the students who are "social" or "the 'right' students"?) participate - that's the main difference people see.</p>
<p>Eating clubs are far and away the most negative attribute to Princeton. Truly mind-boggling how expensive the programs run and how much of a theme they are on campus. Ridiculous in my opinion. However, this should not scare one off from the resplendent academic/EC opportunities found elsewhere on campus.</p>
<p>True, Prefontaine. The clubs are just one aspect of life at Princeton. Although they are a big one, Princeton is much more than just eating clubs - it's one of the best universities in the country.</p>
<p>and i quote</p>
<p>"re: why i didn't just go somewhere else to begin with, which someone brought up, when I applied to Princeton (Yes I did get into equally ranked or higher ranked schools believe it or not :-), I didn't realize how powerful and pervasive the eating club system was. it's something you don't feel until you are actually on campus"</p>
<p>If this pervasiveness does impact student bodies...</p>
<p>In a short term measure, mandate every clubs non-selective ?
In a long haul, institute a 4-year residential college system (like yale) ?</p>
<p>Losing top students is not a laughing matter. It is a serious one.</p>
<p>Unless something is done about this, Pton would gradually descend to the rank of 2nd tier schools ...
where u find a vast majority of students are smart, but not top-notched</p>
<p>Lets not kid ourselves</p>
<p>go tiggress</p>
<p>25 % of Princeton students do not join a club, and half of the clubs are non-exclusive. Even if you are not a club member, you can attend a good number of club events as a guest of friends. With the new four year residential college option, the percentage of students who choose not to join should increase.</p>
<p>Because of dietary restrictions, I plan to get a meal contract with the Center for Jewish Life as an upperclassman. I'll admit, the club system, and the elitist stereotype it fosters, did bother me a bit when I applied to Princeton. However, on closer reflection, I realized that it would be foolish to let concern over them stop me from applying to my dream school. Because the club system is so open, joining a club does not make a person a snob. Even those who join exclusive clubs sometimes do so more because friends are members or because their interests are best served by that club than because of the prestige supposedly conferred by membership.</p>
<p>Shrek2004, you don't care about attending a school with the best students in the world? Well, then you and I differ I suppose on many levels. I was initially enthralled with the idea of going to a school with prodigious students but I see this unraveling in front of my eyes with comments like yours. If you want to get drunk and have a good 4 years of debauchery, do both of us a favor and attend Florida. That way, you will meet many attractive girls and experience the life of the party. In my favor, your spot will be open for an academic guru. Begin the transfer app ASAP.</p>
<p>LOL, when did I say I do not want to attend a school with the top students? Obviously Princeton does not get applications from all the top students in the nation (comparing Princeton's number of applications to Harvard's, yes there is a large difference.) To me, top students is not just excelling in academics, but also their own interests whether it be sports/community service/music, but ALSO have some sort of social skills. Harvard, yes has many students who excell in not only academics but also other areas, but many of the students that I know go there choose it because it is much quieter, low key, less social overall. I chose Princeton, like many students, because it blends top academics with a very good social life, not many schools can pull this off (other schools are like Princeton are Dartmouth, Stanford, Penn, just to name a few, you will see that Princeton shares many common-interest applicants with these schools) Princeton accepts students that will make a difference and help impact the lives of those around them. If you cant handle/accept (this does not mean you have to LIKE the idea, just accept it) the idea of an eating club which is essentially in its most simplest form a social organization, I dont know how much human interaction you will be having in your 4 years in college. To me, those people are not going to make a huge impact on the others that will also be attending Princeton. Prefontaine, if you did not know, Princeton has an excellent social life with many performances/organizations/clubs, basically stuff to do at night. If you (not you specifcally) are going to be locked in your room every night and not take advantage of the excellent social aspects of Princeton, then you chose the wrong school. College is not just academics, people seem to forget this. College you will build relationships with other students (another great aspect about Princeton), and in order to do so, you need some type of social skill. I love the concept of eating clubs because it mocks the greek scene and creates a similar, but less intense form of it. I am going to college to learn, but also to have fun. College is supposed to be the 4 best years of your life and Princeton really knows how to do that with its combination of excellent academics and great social life.</p>