I'm resigning from National Honor Society.

Applying to College
61

<p>"Also, I don't "announce" to people what I'm doing -- there are eight people right now who know that I'm leaving: the five who showed up to the meeting early, the advisers, my GC. "</p>

<p>Those are a lot of people. Trust me on that: A lot of people now know including people whom you know who are on CC, recognize you, but you don't know theyre reading this. Your NHS application as well as the statements you've made about leaving the organization that you chose to join despite feeling it was corrupt, do not reflect well on you. If you had managed to turn the organization around, that would have reflected well on you.</p>

<p>" I've gotten mixed responses here on CC, but it looks as though there are more people who agree that their local NHS chapters are pretty much for show; the one your son was involved in seems to be an exception."</p>

<p>Actually, probably as is the case with most organizations, the majority of students in NHS were in it to polish their resumes, not to actually do service. However, there were a small number of members who did believe in service, and who did work very hard along with S to a service project that was the first one in recent memory that involved the whole school. S was one of the 2 major organizers of the project even though he wasn't an NHS officer, and also was shy. The project took a lot of work, including negotiations with the school district.</p>

<p>Afterward, S ran for NHS president and lost, which was disappointing, but didn't end S's involvement with community service, which he continues in a major way even in college. S also remains friends with the person whom he lost the election to.</p>

<p>As for NHS's impact on one's application: Most students somehow seem to think that NHS is going to open college's doors for them. There are some second tier colleges that give small scholarships to NHS members, but otherwise membership or lack of membership won't make a difference unless one has done major things in NHS such as organized major projects in one's school or had a national office.</p>

<p>The very best Harvard applicant whom I've ever interviewed was a national officer of NHS (and could articulate what he had contributed in that position), and also had regional awards in art, and statewide and national awards in math and performed locally as a solo vocalist. An acquaintance who interviews for Brown said the same student also was the top student he' ever interviewed. (Interestingly, the student was accepted to Harvard, Chicago and some other schools, but rejected at Brown. Go figure!)</p>

62

<p>thricedotted --</p>

<p>I like that you are an independent thinker with energy. Have you read Don Quixote de la Mancha? Quirkiness is an admirable trait only if you learn to moderate it in the presence of the conventional.</p>

<ul>
<li><p>your writing is not very good. Syntax errors all through it; dropped throughts; disorganized. I am going to assume that was your first take and that it was an unedited draft. It is an enjoyable read nonetheless. </p></li>
<li><p>your actions are like those of a third grader furtively throwing paper wads at the perfect girl-teacher's pet. What are you trying to accomplish other than annoy?</p></li>
<li><p>tilting at windmills is not all it's cracked up to be.</p></li>
</ul>

63

<p>Okay, finally home! First of all, I'd just like to say that the question I asked in the beginning of the topic has been resolved, but I'm updating this for posterity and because the discussion this has generated makes me think that people might be interested in what's going on. As for the vague animosity running through this thread: I don't know you, you don't know me, the Internet kills inflection, and I don't believe that (a) I live for putting on dog-and-pony shows for the administration and my peers, and (b) I'm being disingenuous by mistakenly joining National Honor Society and then resigning from it -- that's why it was a mistake, but since I can't change the past, I'm going to change the future. Now, anyway.</p>

<p>I ambushed my GC in the hall and, by some stroke of luck, was able to sit down with her fourth period and explain what was on my mind. As I mentioned earlier, I discovered that she was one of the people who had read my original app -- yes, the one with the question/response that I posted here -- and she therefore knew exactly how I felt about NHS. We talked about not resigning, because that way I might be able to gather people who are just as fed up as me and we could "stage a coup," but...in the end, I decided that I could be just as effective out of NHS as I could be if I was in NHS. Now, I'll probably catch some flak for saying that, but what I'm trying to show is that I don't have to have the little NHS membership card (which they never gave us anyway, but what the hey) in order to show "service, character, and leadership", and that I really mean it when I say I don't need NHS as resume filler -- if colleges choose not to accept me on the basis of this, then I can say without a doubt that I don't belong there anyway. She agreed, and gave my letter of resignation her approval. I dropped it off in one of the adviser's mailbox after school.</p>

<p>During this meeting, I also discovered that my NHS advisers are not allowed to call/send letters off to the colleges I've applied/been accepted to; the communication is restricted to the GC only. It is not their place to give that kind of information, and even then, a phone call would not be accepted -- only written communication from the GC is considered official and added to the file.</p>

<p>My GC also mentioned that I talk to my AP Euro teacher about it, so I dropped into her room after school to find out what she had to say. It turns out that her own son wanted nothing to do with NHS for the same reasons I was against it, and that she too had read my application. She also wisely suggested that we get a copy of my letter to the principal before my advisers did; we printed out another copy, but he was at a superintendent's hearing, so my teacher graciously offered to give it to him tomorrow morning.</p>

<p>So that's what's happening. Both my GC and AP Euro teacher support my decision wholeheartedly, and both believe that, considering the schools I've applied to, if it has any impact on my applications whatsoever, it won't be a negative one.</p>

<p>Oh, and finally:

[quote]
Those are a lot of people. Trust me on that: A lot of people now know including people whom you know who are on CC, recognize you, but you don't know theyre reading this.

[/quote]

Big Brother is watching me o_o</p>

<p>Anyway, I highly doubt there's more than two other CCers who go to my school, if that. They simply aren't the type. Either way, I made this topic to ask for advice, not to tell the world everything about me; I only let the whole story out because sending PMs gets rather tedious.</p>

<p>As for how it reflects on me -- this is my way of choosing to do things, and I can't apologize for who I am. For all I know, my resignation may very well rock the boat enough to provide impetus for change, though it's too early to tell...</p>

<p>DunninLA: Your syntax is certainly different from mine; I would have used the word "throughout" rather than "through", but at least you fixed a couple of your other errors in that edit. "What you are you trying to accomplish other than annoy" also strikes me as awkward, but what do I know? To answer the question -- I'm making myself feel a hell of a lot better and walking away from something I dislike. Actually, I'm not quite sure who I'm annoying, anyway -- but if you meant the app, it was mostly me writing for the sake of cynical amusement. I'm seventeen, I'm not a grown-up yet, that's what I do.</p>

<p>But since you're literally the first person to ever say my writing isn't very good, would you mind pointing out what I could do to make it (i.e., my writing in general) better? Perhaps it's arrogance, but I consider myself...fairly literate.</p>

64

<p>Swallow your pride and don't quit. It can help a lot getting into colleges. You are just being arrogant if you plan on doing that.You having a personal vendetta against it shouldn't get in the way of applying to colleges.</p>

65

<p>....well the timing is interesting....wait until all
the college apps are in before resigning from NHS.....
....hmmm guess someone doe snot want to do their
couple fo hours of community service this year</p>

<p>:)</p>

66

<p>Kuggy: Personal vendetta? Is arrogance defined as believing I don't need NHS to get into the schools I've applied to, and that I can be judged on the basis of the rest of my merits? NHS isn't the base of the tree, it's a pinecone that's about to fall off.</p>

<p>I've been gagging on my pride for weeks -- heck, I've been gagging on it since the beginning of high school. I...it would make me very happy to keep it, for once.</p>

<p>arwen15: If I posted a copy of my resignation letter, you'd discover that the assumptions you make in the last couple lines of your post are utterly wrong. I'm going to continue with the tutoring and webdesign I do that counts as my community service for NHS -- I do them because I enjoy them, not because I want to rack up hours.</p>

<p>ETA--excerpted:

[quote]
That said, I will continue doing the tutoring that I took on as a result of the Honor Society, and would be more than happy to contribute my assistance to any future endeavors of the Society that may take place. I have faith that my status as a non-member will neither blemish my integrity nor impede my desire to aid the Society after my membership has been invalidated, should the occasion ever arise.

[/quote]
</p>

<p>There we go.</p>

67

<p>Wow, OP, you need to realize that colleges really don't give two winks whether a kid is in NHS or not... It's like standard fare on any decent applicant's resume. Resigning from a club that is actually .. important and carries significant weight.. would make sense. "Resigning" from NHS strikes me as rather silly and yes, naive, because you try to sound to serious about something that most kids simply do because it is expected that any good student joins NHS. BTW, I absolutely agree with Northstarmom. Did you realize that probably 75% of students do some afterschool activities as filler for their application? Do you realize that, whenever we write English papers, most of the class will derive their essays from Sparknotes? If you were to boycott everything in your school that wasn't participated in with 100% pure motives, let me tell you, you wouldn't be left with much at all. There are more important things to take a stand against than a community service club that encourages students to volunteer in the community. Ask yourself whether this "sham" is harming anybody or whether it's actually doing good. In addition, you put your nose up at NHS because your officers are bad leaders? That's no reason to "resign". You already said that you're not much better, so you have nothing to complain about.</p>

<p>You should take a hint from the fact that all of the adults who have posted on your thread disapprove of what you have done (and I know Northstarmom is even a Harvard interviewer.)</p>

68

<p>^agreed. everything in high school is corrupted, everything is so numbers-oriented, college is the prize everyone wants, and the ends justify the means. and it's not just high school, it's college, too, everyon wants a job, and it's life after that...everyone wants a promotion. so if you're going to take a stand against everything similar, you're not going to left with much at all! just stand up to them as best as possible and, well, don't make too much of a big deal about something that will only just get commoner as you go through life.</p>

69

<p>tell me why!?</p>

70

<p>Thricedotted wrote "But since you're literally the first person to ever say my writing isn't very good, would you mind pointing out what I could do to make it (i.e., my writing in general) better?"</p>

<p>Sure. Let me clarify I think your concept was really good. It was enjoyable to rea -- yet the fractured sytax ruined it for me. The editing is a little hard to do without formatting tools, but here you go. [] means remove, {} means add. These edits remove the unnecessary words and replace some words that (I think) better express your meaning. I have also broken a couple of run on sentences into smaller sentences toward the end. Writing is a high craft that takes years to develop. It is best in the beginning to keep sentences short and thoughts clear -- exactly the opposite of what most high school students think looks like intelligent writing.</p>

<p>There are, quite simply, two major reasons [for] [why] I would like to become a member of National Honor Society: first, [because] I need anything and everything I can get [when it comes to] {to list as accomplishments on my} college applications, and second, [because] I don't think my mother would find a complete rejection of this application acceptable [and] -> {as she thinks} I should take every opportunity I can [get] to beef up my college credentials. Of course, there is the added benefit of the permanent hall pass, which, although trivial, would rid me of some small fraction of the hassle I must contend with throughout the school day. I have a feeling that these are exactly the wrong answers to your question, but I believe that if a private poll were [done among] {taken of} the applicants to your venerable society, all of these reasons would rank far above any student's desire to be [represented in] -> {a part of} one of our school's finest organizations and the honor it [entails] => {bestows} and [their] -> {its} insatiable lust for do-gooding and such. To be honest, I am almost unsure [of] whether I truly desire to be a part of this [or not], since this application procedure in itself necessitates such an amount of what my peers and I crudely refer to as "BS-ing" (and I apologize for this crudeness, but the crime in itself is [one] quite vulgar) that it would seem that no contrast can be made between persons of integrity and the hypocrites who are content with giving the obvious answers. Were there a viable way to weed these hypocrites out, I would receive this offer much more readily, since no doubt [of] -> {regarding} the forthrightness of your organization would ever cross my mind. However, it is certainly not my place to criticize a selection process which has obviously been working just fine for several decades, and therefore I will conclude this by saying that from the ideal viewpoint (i.e., the one where I forget all of my misgivings about the true meaning of NHS and take it for what it claims to be on the surface [which is, for all I know, the only perception I was supposed to have of it in the first place]), I actually do consider induction into the society to be a great honor [and] {.} [t] {T}o earn its recognition would be prestigious indeed{.} [and] * ->{I}t would be quite wonderful{.} to join in order to further its mission {,} as countless students have done in the past[,]-> {.} [and] I can only hope that you don't take this all to be BS because although it wasn't brief [like] -> {as} you asked {,} I think it would be both ironic and unjust to disbelieve me now when I have already wasted so much cynical verbosity on my actual thoughts and beliefs rather than take the easy route out and say only what you want to hear.</p>

71

<p>It wasn't until I was browsing page 4 that I remembered what the NHS is. I was about to say "I don't think we have that at our school," but now I recall filling out that form... twice.</p>

<p>I don't personally find the OP's reasoning compelling (maybe it's a difference in school environment -- here no one knows or cares if you're in NHS), but props for acting on principle.</p>

72

<p>NHS is kinda pointless. At my school anyone with a B+ average is in, so 3.5. Is it the same way for all schools? Anyway, I don't think colleges give it much weight if ur not an officer. I even forgot to put it on my Brown app.</p>

73

<p>The drama llama rides again.</p>

<p>DunninLA: Heh, I guess you missed the "(i.e., my writing in general)" piece. I meant that I was looking for general tips, not an edited version of that essay -- that was a crock to begin with, and why would I have wasted time editing it when it was already meant to be deliberate sabotage of my application anyway? Seeing as I've made quite a few (rather lengthy) posts here, I was wondering if there were mistakes I've been repeatedly making that nobody's ever told me about.</p>

<p>amb3r: I don't put my nose up at the officers, I'm decent friends with all of them, but there's no guidance in the group. As for your other examples, of course I realize this; somebody else tried to use the same argument and I already posted my rebuttal to it. The analogies don't work simply because (a) it has nothing to do with my performance and/or (b) people at least do work in other clubs.</p>

<p>Narcissa: That's the attitude I hate -- don't speak out against something because it's common knowledge that everybody does it. Vote Republican because you live in a red state, don't bother even forming an opinion on things that can't be changed. "The ends justify the means"? Machiavelli said that with "the ends" meaning a relatively stable state versus one with chaos and "the means" meaning getting rid of small problems before they end up causing huge ones.</p>

<p>To everybody: I don't plan on living my life as it's going to appear to a college admissions officer. My motive in making this topic to begin with was to find out how to make sure this wouldn't be put in a bad light, and I've gotten far more advice from adults who know me personally than from faceless Internet voices -- and yes, there are a couple of adults on CC who expressed approval through PM.</p>

<p>Whether or not people think I'm arrogant/naive/ridiculous/awesome for doing this is a moot point now -- it's been done, and I'm ready to accept the consequences for whatever comes of it. As my history teacher said, it's ridiculous -- it's a club, you are allowed to join and should therefore be allowed to resign without fear of people pouncing all over you. I never signed a piece of paper that said I wouldn't be allowed to do that, never gave explicit consent that once I was in, I wouldn't leave. It shouldn't be a big deal, but the fact that it is speaks volumes about how backwards it is that people are making such a big deal out of leaving a club that does nothing, whereas if I left something like Science Olympiad (which I have to actually do work for), I doubt it would even matter.</p>

<p>Why am I naive for joining with serious intentions, and thinking things could be changed? Are my advisers naive for thinking that putting the top 20 in a room together would generate some good? Are the creators of NHS naive for thinking that their creation would result in groups of young adults willing to serve? Is one of my classmates naive for putting every single hour of community service he's ever done on his application because he was somehow afraid that it might not be enough? Maybe they are, but look, they're doing it anyway.</p>

<p>And thank god I already figured out that me at Harvard = square peg into a round hole. Not happening, I'm glad to say.</p>

74

<p>I'm surprised by the people here who have said that any decent student is in NHS. I wasn't, though I had the grades. I chose not to join voluntarily...I had originally planned to, but from talking to people and reading up a bit I determined that it wasn't an organization I wanted to be associated with.</p>

<p>Aspects of my reasoning were similar to those of the OP's. I've certainly joined, and worked happily in, corrupted organizations, trying to better them and get what I could out of them, but I did so because I recognized the potential for substance, for using the organizations as a means to doing good and improving them in the process. With NHS I saw no potential. Our chapter didn't do group projects, which would have been where the potential was (and where it probably is in some chapters), and individual service, I could do on my own without attaching an organization to it.</p>

<p>I did join and then quit a similar organization, Beta Club, because I didn't discover the aspects that bothered me (which were different from the ones that bothered me about NHS) until I was actually in it.</p>

<p>OP, you claim that you went in with serious intentions, but your application essay to NHS suggests otherwise...it suggests that you knew what you were getting into and were already cynical about it. If you were just testing them with that essay, then why did you not refuse to join once they let you in with it? Why did you put it on your college applications in the first place when you had already decided it was a sham? Thinking harder, and contradicting my earlier comment, that is the part of your story that troubles me most. You believed strongly that the organization was a sham and still used it to pitch yourself to colleges.</p>

<p>You are, of course, well within your rights to quit.</p>

75

<p>I am an adult (and former NHS president) who is supportive of both OP's impression of NHS and her decision to resign. While NHS chapters vary from school to school, I think her experience is probably typical. I think it is wrong to expect every 17 year old to make the right decision about everything all the time. If she made a mistake by joining, I think resignation is the appropriate and righteous remedy. Remaining a member would be hypocritical, and would not comport with NHS's good "character" requirement (rolls eyes).</p>

76

<p>BTW, I am not a Harvard alum interviewer, but I am the mother of a Harvard student. She is an independent thinker. OP reminds me of her. Her HS did not have NHS, but I'm confident she would have viewed it the same way as OP. Just throwing that in, OP, so that you don't shy away from Harvard based on any opinions in this thread. Good luck!</p>

77

<p>thricedotted --</p>

<p>OK, you've clarified that that application answer was an unedited first draft. </p>

<p>First drafts are still useful in identifying issues. Especially on first drafts, try to keep your sentences short and to the point. Try to avoid the syntax:</p>

<p>Q. Why do you ....?
You- A. The reason why I xxxx is because .....<br>
Better - A. I xxxx because</p>

<p>The first is a 5th grader's syntax that betrays the intelligent thinking that comprises the majority of you letter.</p>

78

<p>Since as far as I've noticed, I'm the only Harvard alum interviewer on this thread, I do want to make sure that my perspective is clear.</p>

<p>Because virtually everyone who applies to Harvard would qualify for NHS, whether or not one is an NHS member isn't going to matter to Harvard in virtually all cases. The exception in which NHS could be a positive tip factor would be if someone either was a national officer (since it's difficult to become a national officer in any large club) or if someone did something remarkable in their local NHS such as creating a major community service project that was beyond the typical NHS project.</p>

<p>NHS's being a negative tip factor could be possible if a person got kicked out due to, for instance, some major violation of NHS's rules such as cheating (though it would be the cheating, not the lack of NHS that would hurt them). I personally also think that if a college heard about a person who joined NHS with the kind of application the OP described, and then withdrew from NHS in the way the OP has done and for the reasons the OP cited, that behavior could work as a negative tip factor.</p>

<p>Many adults would view the OP's application as indicating arrogance, naivete and a lack of social skills. If someone wanted to join an organization that they felt needed improvement, and if that person sincerely wished to help that organization, they probably wouldn't insult the organization in their application letter. That's certainly not the way to start getting support for one's vision of what the organization can become. The OP may counter that only the advisor and other teachers/GCs saw her application, but not only would I imagine that the OP shared what she did with at least some close friends, but also the way to gain support for one's vision of improving an organization isn't to insult the advisor by applying in a way that indicates the organization is a waste of time and is attractive only to brown nosers.</p>

<p>While places like Harvard value independent thinkers, they also value people with the leadership skills and vision to turn things around when the independent thinkers aren't pleased with how things are going. It's always easy to criticize others and organizations. Making a positive change is far more difficult and also is more difficult thank quitting when things aren't going one's way.</p>

<p>As for me, I would have had much more respect for the OP's independence of thinking if she had never applied to NHS in the first place, but instead had put her energy and creativity into doing some ground- breaking community service for some cause that she cared about. Perhaps she has done that. If so, I applaud her, and would hope that she would take the time to describe that in a post so that others could benefit from her experience.</p>

<p>I know that she has mentioned doing some tutoring, but that's fairly routine volunteering. "Ground breaking CS" would refer to something that was creative, challenging and had some impressive results.</p>

79

<p>NSM: Apart from tutoring, I also do volunteer webdesign and maintenance, which is kinda my "specialty" thing. I don't know if it could be considered ground-breaking quite yet, since I've mostly done little things that are aren't active anymore, but my biggest project (an online community for teens affected by drugs/depression/etc.) is going to be launched by (tentatively) February 14. That's the one service project I'm really passionate about, and I hope it'll take off.</p>

<p>I also don't know if my application -- facetious and inappropriate as it was, I admit -- would be mentioned in the letter to be sent out by my GC. As things stand, I'm not quite sure if my resignation has been acknowledged or not, but I do know that the principal wants to speak to me about it. Something, at least, has been set into motion. We'll see what happens come Monday.</p>

80

<p>I don't understand why everyone is freaking out over the OP and her decision to drop out. It is one's own decision, and you can't assume she did it as an application filler. I am in NHS and I really don't like it either. I don't beleive in having to pay dues and document every source of service with so much restriction. I do service on my own and I do it because it makes me happy not for the stupid application. I already know NHS means NOTHING.</p>